Need Suggestions - Car stalled and now won't restart

[turboSpartan]

Went out to lunch while on work and as I'm pulling back into the parking lot... right as I am pulling into a spot my car dies. Didn't even know it died and almost drove right into the car next to the open spot.

Tried a couple of times to restart and its turning over, but as soon as it does it stalls again.

Power steering is out when it is turned off (it might always be off when the car is off though?) so I had to have my buddy push me while I fought the non-powered steering so we could get it into the open spot.

Open up the hood and everything looks normal from what you can see.


I'm thinking it has to be some sort of fueling issue, as the engine turns over but dies immediately.


I don't have a VAG-com so I can't pull codes. Usually I drive up to the local Autozone and have them pull the codes for free... but obviously I can't drive it now that it doesn't start.


Any thoughts on what it could be and what I can do?

[bez101]

does the immobliser light flash

[turboSpartan]

does the immobliser light flash

I'm not sure where the immobilizer light is?

The light in the drivers door flashes (the "security" light).

I just went out and it started for about 2-3 seconds before stalling out again. Every attempt to start after that would turn the engine over but stall out instantly. When I tried to give it gas... it didn't seem to have any effect on whether it stalled or not.

One thing to note... with the key in the "on" position (as far forward as possible before starting) and the hood open, you can hear a long, constant beep/buzz noise. It seems to be coming from the throttle body area.


Any thoughts....?

[ocod]

you would to scan it to be sure but it may be your crank position sensor.

Do you get a CEL and ABS light on then it is what I said above.

http://www.a4mods.com/index.php?page...eedsensor.html

[alpinestar180]

coil packs? was your check engine light flashing?

when it starts for 2-3 seconds does it run like crap?

[ocod]

coil packs? was your check engine light flashing?

when it starts for 2-3 seconds does it run like crap?

it would still turn on just run like shit.
His issue is car does not crank over or if it does it just dies.
Classic for CPS

[turboSpartan]

it would still turn on just run like shit.
His issue is car does not crank over or if it does it just dies.
Classic for CPS

It does not even show a CEL or EPC light.

BTW - my speed sensor went out about 2 years ago and I fixed it using the A4mods.com instructions. When it did go out... the idle was sort of fumbling up and down, but it still ran.

Now it doesn't really do anything... engine turns but stalls before it starts running.


Maybe it could be a blown hose. I've never blown one before... so I'm not sure of where to look.

[turboSpartan]

OK just went out there again, and now the EPC and CEL lights are on.

It will not turn over at all now.

[Matt@EuropaParts]

Big boost leak, fuel pump could be shot (but even then, I don't think it would crank and die...it would never fire). What year/transmission/engine?

[turboSpartan]

Big boost leak, fuel pump could be shot (but even then, I don't think it would crank and die...it would never fire). What year/transmission/engine?

2004, 6 speed, 1.8T with APR 1

[pa4ul]

check ur # 29 fuse.

[turboSpartan]

So I pulled the code and it is the speed sensor. It's weird because I fixed this last year and it at least gave me warning signs like a bumbling idle and flashing CEL and EPC lights.

This time...nothing. Just died.

Anyway...if you don't have a VAGcom I suggest going to your local autozone. They will "rent" their OBD scanners for free - you just put down a $159.99 deposit. Once you return it they return credit.

Called up the stealership I bought the part at last year for $95...now it costs $147.

Called up a dif stealership and I'm going to pick it up tomorrow for $91.

Car is still in my work parking lot so I'll just bring the tools/jacks/etc and do it there.


Thanks for the help guys.

FYI - speed sensor fault code is P0321 in case anyone ever comes across this thread

[turboSpartan]

I changed out the speed sensor and the car wont start.

I cleared the code and it still wont start.

I try to pull the codes again and it says there are none but the EPC and CEL are still on?


Any help would be appreciated as I am sitting in the rain trying to get this thing started.

[BBC]

If your car has an APR riser with chip installed on the board, that is probably your problem. I have a stack of ECMs with bad soldered riser plates, from all manufactures not just APR. The soldered joints break or cause intermittent contact depending on heat/vibration. Almost always the symptom is exactly as you describe.

[turboSpartan]

If your car has an APR riser with chip installed on the board, that is probably your problem. I have a stack of ECMs with bad soldered riser plates, from all manufactures not just APR. The soldered joints break or cause intermittent contact depending on heat/vibration. Almost always the symptom is exactly as you describe.

I'm not sure what you mean by a riser plate. I have apr chip, but it was a software download to the ECU...they don't actually solder anything anymore as far as I know on any b6's or newer.

If that were the case does that mean I need a new ECU?

Anyone else have any ideas?

[diagnosticator]

Buy or rent a fuel pressure gage and confirm fuel pressure is ~4 bar when cranking the starter.

[turboSpartan]

Buy or rent a fuel pressure gage and confirm fuel pressure is ~4 bar when cranking the starter.

Can you rent those at autozone?

Any other ideas/suggestions?

[BBC]

I'm not sure what you mean by a riser plate. I have apr chip, but it was a software download to the ECU...they don't actually solder anything anymore as far as I know on any b6's or newer.

If that were the case does that mean I need a new ECU?

Anyone else have any ideas?

I have an ECM in my tool box right now from a B6 with a chip in it. If you are 100% sure your ECM was flashed, then disregard what I said. If you are not sure, R&I the ECM and open it up. If it has a riser plate soldered to the main board with another chip (almost always have mfgs name on them) probably that is your problem. I also agree fuel pressure may be the culprit. Not sure if many remember but the early B6s had a fuel pump recall even because they were having so many problems.

[diagnosticator]

Can you rent those at autozone?

Any other ideas/suggestions?

I don't know, but they should be available for rent. A basic fuel pressure test gage is only about $40 otherwise. In order to start and run, an engine must have the three requirements satisfied: 1. The A/F ratio must be combustible. 2. A good spark must occur at the right time. 3. The engine must be in good condition mechanically. If all three requirements are met, the engine MUST start and run, It is not an arbitrary situation.

[turboSpartan]

Went out and tried to start the car this morning when I pulled into work.

The car almost started... it got passed the turning over and actually started for about a half second before stalling out again.

Not sure what that means...but it seems that if you leave the car alone for a while, and then try to start again it will get a little closer than just continuously cranking (in which it keeps turning over but never starting).

Something I did notice is that I don't seem to hear any noise coming from the back seat passenger side (fuel pump area) when I thought I used to.

Is it possible that a fuse may have been blown instead of something else actually failing?

Pa4u mentioned checking Fuse #29.... anyone know what this is?

[turboSpartan]

New Update:

Went out and car still wouldn't start.

Took the cap off of the end of the fuel rail and hit the valve, gas leaked out and onto my hands but did not spray out as I was under the assumption it would.

Then scanned for new codes and pulled this one: P0688 ECM/PCM Power Relay Sense Circuit


Any thoughts? Searching seems to suggest that either a fuse is blown (could this be #29?) or that the relay is blown in the ECU cover/box, or that some wiring may be messed up.


Thanks to everyone who has helped so far.

[Papachristou]

it has got to be a boost leak. this exact same thing happened to me a month ago. you are probably getting all kinds of codes now from running the battery down. I swore it wasnt a boost leak because i looked (glanced actually) then i rechecked everything by pulling, twisting and yanking and sure enough, fucking boost line had popped. tightened her back down, and she ran like a champ. lessons learned!

[diagnosticator]

Went out and tried to start the car this morning when I pulled into work.

The car almost started... it got passed the turning over and actually started for about a half second before stalling out again.

Not sure what that means...but it seems that if you leave the car alone for a while, and then try to start again it will get a little closer than just continuously cranking (in which it keeps turning over but never starting).

Something I did notice is that I don't seem to hear any noise coming from the back seat passenger side (fuel pump area) when I thought I used to.

Is it possible that a fuse may have been blown instead of something else actually failing?

Pa4u mentioned checking Fuse #29.... anyone know what this is?

You don't have enough fuel pressure. As you thought, fuel will spray out of the test port, not dribble, if there is normal fuel pressure in the injector rail. Don't guess, measure the fuel pressure with a gage. Spec is ~4 Bar, or ~58 psig. Fuse 29 is one of the engine management fuses.

[SEATONE]

It has to be fuel pressure, it should spray out with pressure. With a boost leak the car will start and then die immediatly, but it should turn over. If your not hearing the pump kick on when you turn the ignition to the on position check the fuses. They are located behind the panel on the left side of the dash where the door meets it, you can use the key to pop off the panel, and the fuses should be labeled with the number.

[ocod]

I don't know, but they should be available for rent. A basic fuel pressure test gage is only about $40 otherwise. In order to start and run, an engine must have the three requirements satisfied: 1. The A/F ratio must be combustible. 2. A good spark must occur at the right time. 3. The engine must be in good condition mechanically. If all three requirements are met, the engine MUST start and run, It is not an arbitrary situation.

it has got to be a boost leak. this exact same thing happened to me a month ago. you are probably getting all kinds of codes now from running the battery down. I swore it wasnt a boost leak because i looked (glanced actually) then i rechecked everything by pulling, twisting and yanking and sure enough, fucking boost line had popped. tightened her back down, and she ran like a champ. lessons learned!

A big leak(tip comes off turbo or blow IC hose) will cause car to die but would start and try to idle.
Its happen to me twice when I put in ko4 and I knew right away after the first time.
When my CPS went bad I had hard hard starts after car stalled coming to a stop and got the EPC/CEL light w/code.

What happens when you turn key now??
Does it try to start or you get nothing when you turn?

Fuel issue needs to be checked like diagnosticator mentioned

[aLeXliu911]

maybe a dirty fuel filter, hit it with a hammer or a wrench.

[BBC]

New Update:

Went out and car still wouldn't start.

Took the cap off of the end of the fuel rail and hit the valve, gas leaked out and onto my hands but did not spray out as I was under the assumption it would.

Then scanned for new codes and pulled this one: P0688 ECM/PCM Power Relay Sense Circuit


Any thoughts? Searching seems to suggest that either a fuse is blown (could this be #29?) or that the relay is blown in the ECU cover/box, or that some wiring may be messed up.


Thanks to everyone who has helped so far.

To test the fuel pump, take a battery jumper and directly power the fuel pump under the rt rear seat. With the P0688 though, looks like its in the relay side of the system, not the pump, but you'll know right away if the pump is good/bad when you jump it. Oh yah, pump wires are the thick ones on the 4 pin connector under the cover should be Red with a tracer(+) other is Brown(-). Also you can tell there with a test light if the relay is sending juice to the pump.

[turboSpartan]

A big leak(tip comes off turbo or blow IC hose) will cause car to die but would start and try to idle.
Its happen to me twice when I put in ko4 and I knew right away after the first time.
When my CPS went bad I had hard hard starts after car stalled coming to a stop and got the EPC/CEL light w/code.

What happens when you turn key now??
Does it try to start or you get nothing when you turn?

Fuel issue needs to be checked like diagnosticator mentioned

When I turn the key... the car almost starts. It keeps turning over, but never enough to fully start. Usually at the beginning of each day the car will start for a split second (maybe half a second) before stalling out again. Then it goes back to turning over constantly.

I do not doubt that it is a fuel issue, but I am trying to figure out if it is that the fuel pump has actually gone out... or that the relay has gone which in turn does not allow the fuel pump to run.

I'd hate to replace the fuel pump and find out that I could have just changed a $30 relay or something. With the code that is showing up, P0688, it seems that something electrical has gone awry.

I checked all of the fuses with a Volt Meter and they all show continuity except for my ciggarette lighter (gf dropped a bobby pin in it and scared the shit out of me with the spark).


In regards to the fuel pump, does anyone know if the fuel pump goes out do you still hear it turn on at the beginning but its actually not pumping fuel, or do you not hear it at all?

When I turn my key - there is NO sound from the passenger side right rear seat (again, this may be because a relay is out).

[turboSpartan]

To test the fuel pump, take a battery jumper and directly power the fuel pump under the rt rear seat. With the P0688 though, looks like its in the relay side of the system, not the pump, but you'll know right away if the pump is good/bad when you jump it. Oh yah, pump wires are the thick ones on the 4 pin connector under the cover should be Red with a tracer(+) other is Brown(-). Also you can tell there with a test light if the relay is sending juice to the pump.

Can you explain this with more detail?

Someone from a different forum (old guy) mentioned that I need to check the voltage on the fuel pump to see if it is getting power at all - similar to what you are saying.

What I don't know is how to do this.... where am I touching the fuel pump at?

Can you use a Volt Meter and touch the wires or do you have to have a specific spot (like the little pin holes in the fuses) to check for power/continuity?

[turboSpartan]

Bump... today I'm going to take a Volt Meter and measure the voltage (DC) while someone cranks the car for me.

If the pump is getting power but not doing anything... I think that pretty much signifies a faulty fuel pump.

If it is NOT getting the power in the first place... maybe it is only the relay (hopefully this is the case, as it should be cheaper to replace a relay).


Can anyone confirm the fuel pump relay location? Is it the same relay as in the ECU box? Or somewhere else?

[ADCS]

I had almost the identical scenario happen to me a month ago.
On my way to work, stopped at a red light and she stalled. After that it would just crank and not start. I waited a few minutes and was able to occasionally get it to turn on however it would just die after 2-3 seconds. When I could get it to turn on, pressing the throttle did nothing to keep it idling.

The cause was the fuel pump. Changed it and the filter and it is fine now.

[Papachristou]

that was my first guess when i blew a boost line, they are very similar in how the cars act. if you didnt get some good spray at the fuel rail and if you dont hear the pump prime, thats your culprit.

[diagnosticator]

The fuel pump relay is under the driver's side dash, it is the first relay on the left in the horizontal row of relays.

[turboSpartan]

The fuel pump relay is under the driver's side dash, it is the first relay on the left in the horizontal row of relays.

Ok this may be a stupid question... but how exactly do you get to it?

If I wanted to pull it out and see what it looked like - what do I have to remove?

I definitely cannot fit my hand in the small opening above the fuse panel to grab the relay.

[old guy]

You have to remove the lower panel underneath the steering wheel. There are three 8mm bolts that hold it in place. Two of them are underneath and to the left /right of the steering wheel. The third one is underneath the panel covering the fuses on the left side of the dash. Once you remove the bolts you pull back toward you to get the panel out. You will have to unclip the interior pedal light from the panel to get it all the way out.

The relays should be easy to see at this point. As diagnosticator indicated it’s the one on the far left.

[turboSpartan]

So I used a Volt Meter to test the voltage coming into the Fuel Pump.

It showed up initially at 7v, then consistently showed about 3.4v.

Does this mean that the vehicle is sending the proper voltage to the fuel pump, but the fuel pump is dead and therefore not receiving it?

If so... why am I still getting the P0688 code?


Thanks for all of your help, everyone.

[doublezero30]

to me either sounds like a fueling issue of boost/vacuum issue. how long since youve replaced your fuel filter? could be completely blocked up. its recommended about every 30k miles.

[turboSpartan]

to me either sounds like a fueling issue of boost/vacuum issue. how long since youve replaced your fuel filter? could be completely blocked up. its recommended about every 30k miles.

It's never been changed.

I believe Audi states that it is a "lifetime" fuel filter. Obviously that isn't always the case... but I don't believe there is a recommended time interval to change it.


I'm getting to the point where I just want to buck up and have it fixed by someone else.

Problem is that the closest dealerships and the shop I take it to are all about 30+ miles away... and I'd have to have it flat-bedded there.


Any last suggestions on what I can check?

[diagnosticator]

The voltage you measured at the pump connector is too low. It should be ~battery voltage, or ~12.5 to 13.5 volts. The low voltage may be caused by burned or otherwise faulty contacts in the fuel pump relay. Also, after the key in turned to the ON position, if the engine is not started, then the power to the fuel pump is turned off by the ECU/fuel pump relay after 10 seconds or so. Swap out the fuel pump relay with a known good relay and recheck the voltage at the fuel pump.

[turboSpartan]

The voltage you measured at the pump connector is too low. It should be ~battery voltage, or ~12.5 to 13.5 volts. The low voltage may be caused by burned or otherwise faulty contacts in the fuel pump relay. Also, after the key in turned to the ON position, if the engine is not started, then the power to the fuel pump is turned off by the ECU/fuel pump relay after 10 seconds or so. Swap out the fuel pump relay with a known good relay and recheck the voltage at the fuel pump.

Is there a relay in the vehicle that is the same as the fuel pump relay, or do I basically go buy a new one to see if it works?

Any chance the b5 relay is the same? There is a scrap one with parts for sale near where I live.

Again, thanks for all the help.