Engine Strengthening by a4darkness

[spector]

Haha, sorry to hear the vac hose got delayed! I'm sure it'll get there eventually.

[a4darkness]

Well, the vac hose did show up but the 3.5mm ID size appears a bit small to effectively install on some of the valves and connectors. Might still be able to force it, but I think a larger size would be more effective. So, I think I'm gonna order some 4mm ID line and go from there.

Took a bunch of pics during the install of all the parts purchased thus far and will post those later this week, just trying to organize it all into something useful rather than just a bunch of random engine bay pics.

It's been almost two weeks and the car is running better than ever! Mileage is excellent, idle is near silent and perfect but most noticeable is throttle response. Good stuff.

For now, I want to draw attention to the US Plastics check valves. There is no evidence of degradation over heat as was my only concern. We had a solid week of 90+ deg temps in which I did a lot of driving and hammered the car when appropriate to see if anything would give. Granted, I'm only Stage 1 so the engine bay temps won't be the highest seen but they're still pretty warm to say the least.





Looking good. Best part is, you can buy spares for $1.50 a pop.

[tapA4]

Well, the vac hose did show up but the 3.5mm ID size appears a bit small to effectively install on some of the valves and connectors. Might still be able to force it, but I think a larger size would be more effective. So, I think I'm gonna order some 4mm ID line and go from there.

Took a bunch of pics during the install of all the parts purchased thus far and will post those later this week, just trying to organize it all into something useful rather than just a bunch of random engine bay pics.

It's been almost two weeks and the car is running better than ever! Mileage is excellent, idle is near silent and perfect but most noticeable is throttle response. Good stuff.

For now, I want to draw attention to the US Plastics check valves. There is no evidence of degradation over heat as was my only concern. We had a solid week of 90+ deg temps in which I did a lot of driving and hammered the car when appropriate to see if anything would give. Granted, I'm only Stage 1 so the engine bay temps won't be the highest seen but they're still pretty warm to say the least.





Looking good. Best part is, you can buy spares for $1.50 a pop.

which valve is this? is this the #67 wtf valve?

[a4darkness]

which valve is this? is this the #67 wtf valve?

Nope, these are both a #50 as shown here and here respectively.






As Spetor/Keegan correctly mentioned earlier the #67 + WTF valves are larger so I went OEM for those.

[rollaphillie]

great thread, lots of useful info



I have a question about the hose connected to the check valves in the pic above , are they okay to replace with regular silicone vacuum hose? and does anyone know what size is best to use

[tapA4]

great thread, lots of useful info



I have a question about the hose connected to the check valves in the pic above , are they okay to replace with regular silicone vacuum hose? and does anyone know what size is best to use

I would imagine that you could; but I'm not certain.

[a4darkness]

I have a question about the hose connected to the check valves in the pic above , are they okay to replace with regular silicone vacuum hose? and does anyone know what size is best to use

I would imagine that you could; but I'm not certain.

Yes, silicone vac line is fine (as long as it's high temp, you just need to buy automotive grade).

After extensive searching, 3.5mm ID (inner diameter) is what I found as the preferred choice. However, as you can see here, the 3.5mm hose I purchased barely fits over the barb on the check valve (which is a bit smaller than the OEM checks and more importantly some of the metal engine components).

Like I stated above, I think 4mm might be a better choice as forcing 3.5mm on to the check valves could compromise the integrity of the line. Just now when I popped this one off, the end of the line appeared to have a small tear. Not so good.

[rollaphillie]

I would imagine that you could; but I'm not certain.

I'm not sure if it has to be heater hose or lined silicone because its thicker than most of the vacuum hose throughout the engine. I have some new check valves and a 1/4" brass fitting and lots of 1/4" silicone hose from 034 for that section, just wanted to save some money using the 1/4" if I could rather than buying all those oem hoses. If the hose I used was a little bit thinner would it have any negative effect on the engine performance ?

[rollaphillie]

Yes, silicone vac line is fine (as long as it's high temp, you just need to buy automotive grade).

After extensive searching, 3.5mm ID (inner diameter) is what I found as the preferred choice. However, as you can see here, the 3.5mm hose I purchased barely fits over the barb on the check valve (which is a bit smaller than the OEM checks and more importantly some of the metal engine components).

Good to know, so the 1/4" hose should work just fine.

[a4darkness]

Well, lets see here.

3.5mm = 0.138 inches
4mm = 0.157 inches



Basically, the silicone line I have just needs to be a little larger diameter to fit over the barbs without the possibility of tearing the ends. I'm using hose clamps on everything so if it's not uber snug to start with that's fine, but it's taking too much force to wedge this 3.5mm line on here.

[a4darkness]

I'm not sure if it has to be heater hose or lined silicone because its thicker than most of the vacuum hose throughout the engine. I have some new check valves and a 1/4" brass fitting and lots of 1/4" silicone hose from 034 for that section, just wanted to save some money using the 1/4" if I could rather than buying all those oem hoses. If the hose I used was a little bit thinner would it have any negative effect on the engine performance ?

The standard OEM vac line can be replaced with silicone line. However, the other random hoses and piping should be looked at on a case by case basis. Keegan experimented replacing some of the angled OEM hoses with heater hose rather hose and had poor results.

[rollaphillie]

I labeled the diagram to give a better idea of the hoses I was referring to. I just removed #2 off the intake manifold and measured the inside diameter, it seems to be just under 7mm. None of the hoses labeled are angled too much to be replaced with silicone hose. Some of sharper angle hoses like the following I will be replacing with oem parts:
058133394D


058133394F


06B103493D


But these specific ones I believe can be replaced with silicone hose.
I'm going to pull my intake manifold and redo everything w/ mostly oem parts but silicone hose where it can be used. Hopefully I can take some pics and contribute more info to this thread as I'm doing it.

[rollaphillie]

Has anyone ever used these clamps before?

http://www.034motorsport.com/hardwar...-43-p-259.html

seems like a good solution to screw clamps which often tear the smaller diameter hose

[a4darkness]

I labeled the diagram to give a better idea of the hoses I was referring to. I just removed #2 off the intake manifold and measured the inside diameter, it seems to be just under 7mm. None of the hoses labeled are angled too much to be replaced with silicone hose. Some of sharper angle hoses...I will be replacing with oem parts... But these specific ones I believe can be replaced with silicone hose. I'm going to pull my intake manifold and redo everything w/ mostly oem parts but silicone hose where it can be used. Hopefully I can take some pics and contribute more info to this thread as I'm doing it.

Oh! I getcha now. Yes, those would appear to be excellent candidates for silicone / heater hose replacements. By all means, add whatever you feel is relevant to the thread (especially cause I won't be pulling my manifold). Let us know what you find.

[tapA4]

Just realized I never posted costs. I'll use the by source breakout:

GAP
http://genuineaudiparts.com/
# 19: 058 133 753 D (Suction Pump) -> use OEM
# 21: 058 133 784 AF (3-Way Angled Hose) -> use OEM
# 22: 07C 133 529 A (3-Way Check Valve) -> use OEM
# 23: 058 133 394 D (2-Way Angled Hose) -> 90 deg bend, is inexpensive, use OEM
# 55: 8E0 133 784 B (Angled Hose, "Y" style) -> use OEM
# 58: 058 133 394 F (hose, right angled, crank case breather) -> use OEM
# 67: 06A 133 528 D (non return / crankcase vent valve) aka 'large check valve' -> use OEM
# 67: 06A 133 528 D (non return / crankcase vent valve) aka 'WTF check valve' -> use OEM
# 68: 06B 103 493 C (vent hose) -> use OEM
# 24: 06B 103 493 D (Breather Hose) -> use OEM
Items Total: $175.59
Shipping: $14.94
Tax: $0.00
Total: $190.53


# 50: 058 905 291 K (2-Way Check Valve) -> use US Plastics
x8 (buying an extra set just in case)
US Plastic 1/4" Kynar® Standard Check Valves, Item #: 64174
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/ite...2234&catid=489
Item Total: 8 x $1.43 = $11.44
Shipping: $4.99
Tax: $0.00
Total: $16.40


Tee Fitting x1
ATP Turbo "1/4" Hose Tee, Brass 3 Way" Code: MIA-VCM-002
http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant...egory_Code=VCM
Item Total: $4.00
Shipping:$11.50
Tax: $0.37
Total: $15.87


Silicone Vac Line x10ft
# 64: 058 133 784 (Reducer Hose) -> use HH or Vac Line depending on diameter
Verocious Vacuum Hose, Platinum Cured Silicone
http://www.verociousmotorsports.com/...Cured-Silicone
Item Total: 10 x $0.94 = $9.40
Shipping: $9.00
Tax: $0.00
Total: $18.40


Hose Clamps (from OSH)
x30 (3/8-5/8) = $25.50
x10 (9/16-1 1/16) = $9.70
Total: $35.20

Grand Total: $276.40



To add a little perspective, consider this. To solve my original problem of a split Jet Suction Pump at my local dealership:

Suction Jet Pump: $53
Associated hardware: ~$3
Hourly Labor Rate: $115 (unsure if it would be just this or w/a diag fee)
Total: $171


DIY FTMFW

I was just running through this whole thread again before I got started. Now I was just wondering how the 1/4 2 way check valve held/is holding up against the heat so far? Also, can I just use the same hoses that I have on the engine, I'm pretty sure the hoses are o.k. Just a few MTC check valves need to be replaced, so does the US plastic 1/4 fit in the oem hose?
Thanks!

[tapA4]

Wanted to get a few angles of the area behind the suction pump as it's a bit a tad confusing. Thankfully, Chris' shot provides some clarity here. Thanks again for posting that pic, really helped.

Obviously, some of these numbers are repeats from prior posts, just adding them for reference. Depending on the angle of a picture or if you move the cluster around a bit they almost appear to be in different places. So keep that in mind when you're looking at these shots.



I'm omitting #24 and #67 from this portion of the project as well as this gray valve (dead center in the pic below). It's located just over to the left of the cluster yet still behind the engine.




And here's the remaining two 'standard #50' check valves underneath the throttle body hose area, driver's side of the engine. Pretty easy to spot once you look down there.



Tomorrow I'll finalize my list and hunt around for good prices. Probably a good idea to get some sleep before trying to double check all of this as well.

Sorry, also, do you know what the part number for the gray valve "dead center" in the pic above is?

[a4darkness]

100% good to go. Also, silveravant on QW mentioned that he was running the US Plastics checks on his B5 sans issues for quite some time. So we've got a solid option here.

As for the hoses, I don't see why not. I mean, if you really want a definitive answer, you can always run a leak test. I replaced the parts on my system that appeared to be old and or possibly weak. Was a fun project too, so that was part of it.

And yes, the US Plastics checks have the same sized openings as the OEM checks. Your questions made me think of this... something I should have done a while ago.

I was just running through this whole thread again before I got started. Now I was just wondering how the 1/4 2 way check valve held/is holding up against the heat so far? Also, can I just use the same hoses that I have on the engine, I'm pretty sure the hoses are o.k. Just a few MTC check valves need to be replaced, so does the US plastic 1/4 fit in the oem hose?
Thanks!

[a4darkness]

And I'm hoping the labeled check valve pic answers this as I'm not entirely sure which one you're referring to (multiple pics w/multiple valves). If not, just LMK. All good.

Sorry, also, do you know what the part number for the gray valve "dead center" in the pic above is?

[tapA4]

100% good to go. Also, silveravant on QW mentioned that he was running the US Plastics checks on his B5 sans issues for quite some time. So we've got a solid option here.

As for the hoses, I don't see why not. I mean, if you really want a definitive answer, you can always run a leak test. I replaced the parts on my system that appeared to be old and or possibly weak. Was a fun project too, so that was part of it.

And yes, the US Plastics checks have the same sized openings as the OEM checks. Your questions made me think of this... something I should have done a while ago.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure this clears things up. When you did your valve replacements, did you use the valve above (06a 133 528 d) in place of the gray valve I spoke of? Ah, sorry if I'm creating confusion lol just trying to figure out the right hoses to buy haha

[a4darkness]

I replaced the 058 905 291 K valves with the US Plastic Valves but replaced the all gray 06A 133 528 D valves with the exact same OEM part.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure this clears things up. When you did your valve replacements, did you use the valve above (06a 133 528 d) in place of the gray valve I spoke of? Ah, sorry if I'm creating confusion lol just trying to figure out the right hoses to buy haha

[tapA4]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure this clears things up. When you did your valve replacements, did you use the valve above (06a 133 528 d) in place of the gray valve I spoke of? Ah, sorry if I'm creating confusion lol just trying to figure out the right hoses to buy haha

With the nonreturn/crankcase vent valve, is that the same valve as the WTF valve?

[a4darkness]

Yup, sure is.

With the nonreturn/crankcase vent valve, is that the same valve as the WTF valve?

[tapA4]

Yup, sure is.

Awesome. Did you replace both of yours?

[a4darkness]

I did indeed.

[tapA4]

I did indeed.

And you got them from that Genuine Audi/VW parts website correct?

[OneBadAudi]

Im curious, How many check valves and other valves are there on our cars. If i can get an accurate count on all the valves for this system, im going to order all of them and replace all of them. Im sure this is what is causing my vac/boost leaks.

[tapA4]

Im curious, How many check valves and other valves are there on our cars. If i can get an accurate count on all the valves for this system, im going to order all of them and replace all of them. Im sure this is what is causing my vac/boost leaks.

This would be the thread to the valve count etc.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...hlight=in-line

[OneBadAudi]

^^Thank you sir.. Thats what i was looking for, I am going to town next weekend on this system. Replacing all the vac lines with new ones, check valves etc.

[tapA4]

^^Thank you sir.. Thats what i was looking for, I am going to town next weekend on this system. Replacing all the vac lines with new ones, check valves etc.

Not a problem. Here to assist in any way I can. That vac line replacement and valve replacement is gonna be a bear, but it's surely worth it.

[OneBadAudi]

yeh im not looking forward to it, but if it helps me get my boost back then im all for it
It will def be a captain weekend doing this project haha

[tapA4]

yeh im not looking forward to it, but if it helps me get my boost back then im all for it
It will def be a captain weekend doing this project haha

You'll DEFINITELY be able to notice in boost response. Well worth the headache.

[OneBadAudi]

Yehh buddy.. its gonna be an exciting weekend.. Getting it ready for the BT project.

[tapA4]

Just got in my 3 MTC substitute check valves from USP today. I'll be putting those on tomorrow. Just thought I'd throw that on here.

[a4darkness]

Nice, let us know how it goes.

[tapA4]

Nice, let us know how it goes.

Will do! The idle is running kind of rough right now, so I'm hoping that these will help smooth things out.

[widgget]

fuck i hate this system. i have been wanting to do all the valves associated with the evap system and the lines on both of my cars rather then chase leaks as they pop-up. it's impossible to find a complete list of what i need. there are so many different valves i don't know what the fuck i should be ordering. This thread has been a huge help but still doesn't gave a list of how many of each check valve i need, how many feet of hose, ect., maybe i'm just asking for too much :P i don't mind digging into the engine at all, no one has touched ether car of mine with the exception of software flashes since it has to be done by the dealer, but the second i start with all the little hoses and valves i just get frustrated and pissed off.

i guess what i really am looking for is a complete list of how many of each check valve i need (white ones vs gray ones, vs wtf valves, ect), and how many feet of hose (i guess the 4mm was the one to go with?).

ignore me, i'm just bitching.

[a4darkness]

No worries man. Lets see what we can do here.

This thread got a bit more jumbled than I had hoped. I probably should have just done a complete DIY / How to. My bad.

I split the car into three regions which really helped me organize what I needed. Maybe printing out those pics and comparing them to your engine will help. For myself, I need accurate visuals or my brain just will not process. Herp derp.

Since you have an 03 as well, the list I posted will be near exactly what you'll need widgget. And there is a complete list here:

EDIT -> Content relocated to post 1

fuck i hate this system. i have been wanting to do all the valves associated with the evap system and the lines on both of my cars rather then chase leaks as they pop-up.
it's impossible to find a complete list of what i need. there are so many different valves i don't know what the fuck i should be ordering. This thread has been a huge help but still doesn't gave a list of how
many of each check valve i need, how many feet of hose, ect., maybe i'm just asking for too much :P i don't mind digging into the engine at all, no one has touched ether car of mine with the exception of
software flashes since it has to be done by the dealer, but the second i start with all the little hoses and valves i just get frustrated and pissed off.

i guess what i really am looking for is a complete list of how many of each check valve i need (white ones vs gray ones, vs wtf valves, ect), and how many feet of hose (i guess the 4mm was the one to go with?).

ignore me, i'm just bitching.

[widgget]

thanks man, that is a big help putting it all together. don't know why but every-time i look at a evap thread i just get all wound up. :P

just to confirm, have you tried the 4mm ID hose yet?

[a4darkness]

Sure, no problem. I felt the exact same way so I decided to break it all down, take pics + label it all correctly. Was very confusing to me till now.

I've not yet installed the vac hose yet. But I actually bought 3.5mm ID. It's fairly tight on some of the valves I tested it on so I might buy some 4mm ID instead.

Here's the 3.5mm ID hose on a US Plastics Check Valve (which is roughly the same diameter as the OEM parts). Doesn't fit quite so well.

[widgget]

yeah, i read that part, didn't know if you had a chance to try the 4mm yet. i'll report back if i get a chance to pick some up.