JHM just acquired a B7 RS4 for more R&D and track abuse (Offiicial build thread)

[RS4POWER]

Did you perform any runs with stock flash?

[AofC_RR]

I'm in shock, the B8 S4 with a tune, exhaust and intake is turning 12.2 quarters now. Check Primetime's threads.

[Justincredible]

I'm in shock, the B8 S4 with a tune, exhaust and intake is turning 12.2 quarters now. Check Primetime's threads.

There is 1 B8 car doing that and its on race gas. Still 12.4 is great for a chip and exhaust.

Just a quick question. There was a huge thread on QW with actual logs which seem to implicate that the flapper mod is actually detrimental to the power development of the car. Is that something that is addressed with the tune? Thanks.

Are you talking about the flapper in the intake manifold?

If not removing the flapper in the air box actually helps on the RS4. After seeing the 12.4 time and knowing JHM Im assuming they wouldn't do it if it didn't help the car go faster.. Not only that but common sense tells you removing the restriction in the intake isn't going to slow the car down

[richib86]

I'm in shock, the B8 S4 with a tune, exhaust and intake is turning 12.2 quarters now. Check Primetime's threads.

that b8 is running 12.06 at 116 now on the same setup and all the dsg guys JUST discovered launch control. there will be a bunch more once apr releases the program switcher. that guy was the only one with the balls to get the race program only lol



i cant wait to drive a jhm tuned rs4 :)

[Retsujou]

There is 1 B8 car doing that and its on race gas. Still 12.4 is great for a chip and exhaust.


If not removing the flapper in the air box actually helps on the RS4. As anything on QW there isn't any good information. There is just a lot of arguments. After seeing the 12.4 time and knowing JHM Im assuming they wouldn't do it if it didn't help the car go faster.. Not only that but common sense tells you removing the restriction in the intake isn't going to slow the car down

Actually there is a lot of good Data on this particular thread. I will find it, I looked about 10 minutes yesterday but could not find it. There are before and after VAG com logs, including timing pulled, reading at the MAF and some other data.
Don't you think the guys in Germany put that flap there for a reason? I am talking about just removing the flap, I guess the JHM tune accounts for the difference in air flow so that the ECU's actually do not get confused.
I find it a bit odd to dismiss a valid question and or concern just because it originated from a particular forum. Not to mention that I personally ran the mod with my APR tune for a while and it did not make a lick of a difference. Actually felt odd with the mod in effect.

[Justincredible]

Actually there is a lot of good Data on this particular thread. I will find it, I looked about 10 minutes yesterday but could not find it. There are before and after VAG com logs, including timing pulled, reading at the MAF and some other data.
Don't you think the guys in Germany put that flap there for a reason? I am talking about just removing the flap, I guess the JHM tune accounts for the difference in air flow so that the ECU's actually do not get confused.
I find it a bit odd to dismiss a valid question and or concern just because it originated from a particular forum. Not to mention that I personally ran the mod with my APR tune for a while and it did not make a lick of a difference. Actually felt odd with the mod in effect.

Here is how it works.

Any time there is a increase in MAF readings the car thinks there is an increase in load As there is more air. More air more load. When there is a large increase in air or load the car is going to look at the knock sensors and the load and then set the timing.

Removing the flap will add a good amount of air. So the car is going to think there is a large increase in load. so the car is going to give you the proper timing for that amount of load to make sure the car stays safe. Ive done this mod to 4 people the same thing happens. Timing will go down but power will go up as its air that makes more power then timing.

Think about it what gets you power.. its not timing its more the amount of air you can get into the car and out of it. This is why people put S/C's turbos less restrictive intakes on the car.

So the car isn't getting fooled its doing the same thing it would if you left that flap in and drove in low enough temps to achieve the same MAF reading at that same RPM if you had the flap in. You have to measure more then just a few things to figured it out.

Regardless your getting more air into the motor and that's the entire idea. Depending on fuel and other factors your car might not be getting the full benefit from it but its helping. Its not going to do much obviously after the point where the flap would open so logging much past 4500 is pointless (or what ever the flap opens up I don't remember)

All this being said A tune that is set for that kind of MAF reading is probably going to get more out of the mod then one not. So stock or other wise its not "hurting" performance. Dont expect a game changer. Also keep in mind its this same kind of missunderstandings and not full investagation that stopped the B6/7 S4's from advancing

[RS4POWER]

Here is how it works.

Any time there is a increase in MAF readings the car thinks there is an increase in load As there is more air. More air more load. When there is a large increase in air or load the car is going to look at the knock sensors and the load and then set the timing.

Removing the flap will add a good amount of air. So the car is going to think there is a large increase in load. so the car is going to give you the proper timing for that amount of load to make sure the car stays safe. Ive done this mod to 4 people the same thing happens. Timing will go down but power will go up as its air that makes more power then timing.

Think about it what gets you power.. its not timing its more the amount of air you can get into the car and out of it. This is why people put S/C's turbos less restrictive intakes on the car.

So the car isn't getting fooled its doing the same thing it would if you left that flap in and drove in low enough temps to achieve the same MAF reading at that same RPM if you had the flap in. You have to measure more then just a few things to figured it out.

Regardless your getting more air into the motor and that's the entire idea. Depending on fuel and other factors your car might not be getting the full benefit from it but its helping. Its not going to do much obviously after the point where the flap would open so logging much past 4500 is pointless (or what ever the flap opens up I don't remember)

All this being said A tune that is set for that kind of MAF reading is probably going to get more out of the mod then one not. So stock or other wise its not "hurting" performance

Justin-
I agree with what you've said for the most part...

If cold air is being introduced via airbox flap than its contributing to performance.
However if hot air is being introduced (likely the case below 5krpm) than it is indeed hurting performance- at least in the RS 4's case.

As i stated above the RS 4 ecu's are sensitive to high iat's and will lower maf by closing the throttle valve slightly. I would rather have the throttle body as open as possible over the air box flap.

Now a tune can manipulate the ecu's and decrease knock sensitivity due to high iat's and how the throttle valve functions and when.

If JHM has factored all this in then they have a great tune in the making.

[Justincredible]

Justin-
I agree with what you've said for the most part...

If cold air is being introduced via airbox flap than its contributing to performance.
However if hot air is being introduced (likely the case below 5krpm) than it is indeed hurting performance- at least in the RS 4's case.

As i stated above the RS 4 ecu's are sensitive to high iat's and will lower maf by closing the throttle valve slightly. I would rather have the throttle body as open as possible over the air box flap.

Now a tune can manipulate the ecu's and decrease knock sensitivity due to high iat's and how the throttle valve functions and when.

If JHM has factored all this in then they have a great tune in the making.

Yes 100%. I obviously have no interest in going to help look over someones logs on a different site. But you hit the nail on the head. Looking at TEMPS are a important factor. I haven't seen an unacceptable increase in temps removing the flaps on the 4 people I worked with. but if the temps do go up past a certain point thats not going to help.

The RS4's close the throttle body when they get past X load.. Im not sure what it is. This will happen with the car in 100% oem trim. Removing the flap might get you closer to this point sooner but thats just reinforcing its working.

IMHO with JHM going that much faster then even the S/C cars and JHM has the mod they figgured something out

As far as the testing on the flap goes and information shown else where. I assume were talking about this.

. With my de-flap on the car, my maf went up. So did my IAT. I have logs showing my car and 2 other cars, same day, same 3rd gear 2200-8k rpm pulls, and showing the differences. Removing the flap helped the car in terms of MAF. I also ran much faster times from 2200-8k than the other 2 cars.

And btw I m not the expert at this, i learned from SilverRS4 and doing my own experiments in my garage and on Tile Flats Road.

So MickF29 has posted contrary to the flapper mod not helping and has gotten the same results as I have.

It seems we have both tested and shown it works. He seems to have bigger temp issues then what Ive seen but the end results are the same. I still feel that both me and MickF29 realize that temps are an important factor

So with that. Lets move on back to on topic

[91gl]

Confused, why go FI after you've already put other parts on? Why not build the other parts around the turbo/SC?

the parts would still compliment eachother and still give someone who either doesnt want to/cant afford FI to stay NA and still make good power.

[MAARKUS]

any new updates on the 2.75in exhaust or tune??

[cotmfk]

JHM! Thanks for taking the time to work on our cars!

[S4V8]

Anyone have the new JHM exhaust on their car? I keep hearing of a few floating around out there, but no confirmations. I couldn't wait any longer and came across a sweet deal on a valved, non-res Milltek. Looking forward to the other goodies JHM has in store though!

[RS4bro]

Back to reality...any JMH news!!!!!!

[NY07RS4]

...so does JHM have anything to add as far as parts development?

[KryptoniK]

so... I'm going to install the JHM tune next week... and I should have my full 2.75" JHM exhaust by the end of this month (HFC and resonated, oval tips). Still no news on the IM spacer's ETA. Can't wait to post up vids/pics!

I was talking an RS4 buddy I met at waterfest (Devin) about some of the JHM mods I'm doing.. and he came up with a good idea... since I'm planning on installing the exhaust myself, I should host an RS4 DIY weekend in my 3 car heated garage.

I'll keep everyone posted by e-mail or PM when the time comes.

I'm excited ;) More so about the thought of having RS4 gear heads like me to share some beers/food with.

[RS4POWER]

so... I'm going to install the JHM tune next week... and I should have my full 2.75" JHM exhaust by the end of this month (HFC and resonated, oval tips). Still no news on the IM spacer's ETA. Can't wait to post up vids/pics!

I was talking an RS4 buddy I met at waterfest (Devin) about some of the JHM mods I'm doing.. and he came up with a good idea... since I'm planning on installing the exhaust myself, I should host an RS4 DIY weekend in my 3 car heated garage.

I'll keep everyone posted by e-mail or PM when the time comes.

I'm excited ;) More so about the thought of having RS4 gear heads like me to share some beers/food with.

Let me know D! I might be tweaking my exhaust system as well along with hfc and tune!

[beemercer]

I'm excited ;) More so about the thought of having RS4 gear heads like me to share some beers/food with.

guess us poor folk aren't invited lol

[NY07RS4]

so... I'm going to install the JHM tune next week... and I should have my full 2.75" JHM exhaust by the end of this month (HFC and resonated, oval tips). Still no news on the IM spacer's ETA. Can't wait to post up vids/pics!

I was talking an RS4 buddy I met at waterfest (Devin) about some of the JHM mods I'm doing.. and he came up with a good idea... since I'm planning on installing the exhaust myself, I should host an RS4 DIY weekend in my 3 car heated garage.

I'll keep everyone posted by e-mail or PM when the time comes.

I'm excited ;) More so about the thought of having RS4 gear heads like me to share some beers/food with.

Def keep me posted!

[richib86]

so... I'm going to install the JHM tune next week... and I should have my full 2.75" JHM exhaust by the end of this month (HFC and resonated, oval tips). Still no news on the IM spacer's ETA. Can't wait to post up vids/pics!

I was talking an RS4 buddy I met at waterfest (Devin) about some of the JHM mods I'm doing.. and he came up with a good idea... since I'm planning on installing the exhaust myself, I should host an RS4 DIY weekend in my 3 car heated garage.

I'll keep everyone posted by e-mail or PM when the time comes.

I'm excited ;) More so about the thought of having RS4 gear heads like me to share some beers/food with.

im in let me know dave

[jfunkey]

So what happened to all of the discussion posts from yesterday? There's a lot of good information that is <poof> gone!

It was a argumet about the same thing bad comunication it appears.. The flaper mod it works do what you can to keep temps down.

so... I'm going to install the JHM tune next week... and I should have my full 2.75" JHM exhaust by the end of this month (HFC and resonated, oval tips). Still no news on the IM spacer's ETA. Can't wait to post up vids/pics!

I was talking an RS4 buddy I met at waterfest (Devin) about some of the JHM mods I'm doing.. and he came up with a good idea... since I'm planning on installing the exhaust myself, I should host an RS4 DIY weekend in my 3 car heated garage.

I'll keep everyone posted by e-mail or PM when the time comes.

I'm excited ;) More so about the thought of having RS4 gear heads like me to share some beers/food with.

just be carefull. Ive noticed that the more people youi get the harder simple tasks can become. just make sure you don't have a garage full of indian cheafs and no indins or you won't be able to screw in a light bulb with out 50 different comments on it.
Keep us posted

[oreo8716]

yeah Dave I do have to say that was a good idea i had lol.. and i heard from jhm.....im in love.... decisions decisions.. let us know the date man so we can schedule this diy day.. and let us know if u need anything.. tools food beer ect.

[oreo8716]

oh and dont worry dave im coming prepared to work lol

[Anthony]

Alright, this thread has been cleaned up and the worthy side-discussion regarding the "Air Box Flapper" has been split off onto its own thread.

It's time to hand this thread back over to JHM, so let's all help them by keeping this baby on topic. Thank you.

[jaybquick@JHM]

UPDATE: 2-21-11. After months of testing and several installs under our belt the JHM B7 RS4 intake spacers are in stock and ready to ship.

Check them out here in our store.
JHM B7 RS4 intake spacers



What do they do? They help bring your intake temps down by insulating the intake manifold from the heat coming from the cylinder heads due to combustion and lengthen your intake runners which in turn creates more torque. With a cooler intake manifold you create a cooler and denser intake charge which helps add more tq and hp, gear after gear! All in all a great mod for the money especially on the RS4 that is lacking in the torque department. With our in house testing we found a gain everywhere in the rev range from 2500 rpm to 8000 rpm. The biggest gains were from 4000 to 6000 rpm, with the 2nd best area of gains from 5000 to 7000 rpm. This was done with acceleration rate calculations in 3rd gear from logs. The BEST part is that we saw that the car didn't slow down after repeated pulls due to an extremely heat soaked intake manifold bringing the intake temps up. Bottom line, the longer we beat on it the better it performed vs. the tests without the spacers.

Fitment: 4.2L 32v FSI (4 valve per cylinder) V8 in the B7 RS4

Includes:
2 -JHM intake spacers (1 for each side of the intake)
2 - OEM Intake gaskets (1 for the each of the top sides of the spacesr that mates to the intake manifold, you can reuse the stock gasket between the spacer and the cylinder head.)
10 -longer stainless steel bolts (5 for each side of the intake)
10 - washers for the supplied longer bolts (5 for each side of the intake)
Optional Intake Elbow Heater Bypass kit for a low price, see dropdown box below. This helps keep the intake temps even cooler and takes 1 minute to install.
Optional Additional pair of OEM intake manifold gaskets if you feel your factory gaskets may be worn out or damaged. You can reuse your factory gasket at the cylinder head, they are rubber and steel making them quite reusable. Our in house car has 75k miles on it with the original gaskets and after we have removed the intake manifold several times for R&D of these spacers and other products they are still sealing great.


Installation notes (see next post). The install for these spacers requires the same labor as a carbon cleaning. So when performing a carbon cleaning to bring back your top end horsepower, why not install JHM intake spacers and add some torques as well. NOTE: The only thing additional vs doing a straight intake manifold removal for a carbon clean is that you need to flex and move up the distributor about 10mm (spacer plus additional compressed gasket) for the high pressure fuel lines. You need to adust the fuel lines as well since the manifold will be sitting about 10mm higher than stock.



More information on the heater bypass kit here on our site.
JHM Oil Separator Heater bypass kit

[jaybquick@JHM]

INSTALL NOTES:

Basically it is the same labor plus a couple little modifications as an intake manifold removal for a carbon clean. Here are some notes that one who has successfully performed a carbon clean would need. We plan on supplying full details on the install over time and more info on our tricks for a thorough carbon clean. Also supplied is some information regarding the oil separator heater bypass kit. (basically the same as the B6-B7 S4 throttle body elbow heater bypass kit.)

[mbgt72]

VERY NICE! Glad to see the RS4 products begin to come to market! Looking forward to more products being released! (well kinda, I don't want the RS4 to get too much faster than the S4 haha)

[jaybquick@JHM]

VERY NICE! Glad to see the RS4 products begin to come to market! Looking forward to more products being released! (well kinda, I don't want the RS4 to get too much faster than the S4 haha)

Don't worry. The S4 supercharger kit is coming out this year. HEHE

[adamRS]

Very nice! I am definitely interested in these. What temperatures do you consider extremely cold climates for the oil separator heater bypass kit?

[mbgt72]

Don't worry. The S4 supercharger kit is coming out this year. HEHE

can't wait, heard it's kinda slow though, like most of your cars. . . .

[B6JoeS4]

Don't worry. The S4 supercharger kit is coming out this year. HEHE

You saying that literally gave me the chills. In a great way

[beemercer]

very nice Jay, glad to see they fit alright

[Brian0473]

With our in house testing we found a gain everywhere in the rev range from 2500 rpm to 8000 rpm. The biggest gains were from 4000 to 6000 rpm, with the 2nd best area of gains from 5000 to 7000 rpm.

Any actual HP figures?

[sakimano]

Any actual HP figures?

unlikely as
a) they don't dyno (well, they don't post dyno info for parts like this anyway)
and
b)...

The biggest gains were from 4000 to 6000 rpm, with the 2nd best area of gains from 5000 to 7000 rpm. This was done with acceleration rate calculations in 3rd gear from logs.

[RS4POWER]

unlikely as
a) they don't dyno (well, they don't post dyno info for parts like this anyway)
and
b)...

This was done with acceleration rate calculations in 3rd gear from logs.

You see Mr Saki... logs aren't bad after all. Even JHM refers to them to monitor performance behavior.

[sakimano]

This was done with acceleration rate calculations in 3rd gear from logs.

You see Mr Saki... logs aren't bad after all. Even JHM refers to them to monitor performance behavior.

Where did I ever say logs were no good? I've logged my car half a dozen times in the past year and sent the data to JHM. I also use it to measure different things done to the car. I share them with none of you because who on earth knows if I'm logging fairly? Do you already forget when I asked you for pre and post carbon cleaning logs, and when I said in PM the data is a great way to compare a mod/cleaning etc? LOL!?

Logging your own car is great, because you get a picture of what's happening and don't have to pay a dyno guy. You also can't lie to yourself. Going public with the data as a proclamation of your car's greatness is a little fuzzy, and that's where the logging thing was abused in the B5 world. Logs are too easily manipulated. You can log downhill and make all kinds of claims. A certified dragstrip on the other hand won't change the track to let you lie to the forum about your mods/sell your parts.

So yeah, I have no problem with logging the car. I do have a problem with shit-talking e-tough guys who make threats...and with people who misinform, then take everything personally. Kinda different.

[RS4POWER]

Where did I ever say logs were no good? I've logged my car half a dozen times in the past year and sent the data to JHM. I also use it to measure different things done to the car. I share them with none of you because who on earth knows if I'm logging fairly? Do you already forget when I asked you for pre and post carbon cleaning logs, and when I said in PM the data is a great way to compare a mod/cleaning etc? LOL!?

Logging your own car is great, because you get a picture of what's happening and don't have to pay a dyno guy. You also can't lie to yourself. Going public with the data as a proclamation of your car's greatness is a little fuzzy, and that's where the logging thing was abused in the B5 world. Logs are too easily manipulated. You can log downhill and make all kinds of claims. A certified dragstrip on the other hand won't change the track to let you lie to the forum about your mods/sell your parts.

So yeah, I have no problem with logging the car. I do have a problem with shit-talking e-tough guys who make threats...and with people who misinform, then take everything personally. Kinda different.

Oh so you have serious issues with yourself... gotcha! You have filled pages abusing people who monitor their cars via logs.
If we are not informing about JHM... its misinformation. I have applauded JHM for their progress and some of their parts are on my car already.
You must also have issues with e-tough forums who have either banned you or minimized your posting rights. I guess everyone (its not you of course) is kinda different.

..and just to keep this on topic, I will be ordering the JHM intake spacers and lw pulley when it becomes available. Great job guys!

[WinterRunner]

Very nice! I am definitely interested in these. What temperatures do you consider extremely cold climates for the oil separator heater bypass kit?

I second this.... Any answers? TIA

[noznab]

Very nice! I am definitely interested in these. What temperatures do you consider extremely cold climates for the oil separator heater bypass kit?

If it means anything, I've been running the bypass kit on my s4 for over two years now. I've yet to have any problems starting my car regardless of the snow/cold winters we've been having

[sakimano]

Oh so you have serious issues with yourself... gotcha! You have filled pages abusing people who monitor their cars via logs.
If we are not informing about JHM... its misinformation. I have applauded JHM for their progress and some of their parts are on my car already.
You must also have issues with e-tough forums who have either banned you or minimized your posting rights. I guess everyone (its not you of course) is kinda different.

..and just to keep this on topic, I will be ordering the JHM intake spacers and lw pulley when it becomes available. Great job guys!

you're funny. When have I filled pages about logs? I've laughed at people who point to logs (and only logs) as proof because as I said, logs are very easy to manipulate. JHM backs up logs with dragstrip visits. Other companies/users? You're lucky if you get anything from them.

as for 'mis-information':
If someone is going to say you need a custom tune because you bought a catback...on an RS4...THAT'S misinformation and naivety.
If someone is going to say you need JHM exhaust in order to use the JHM tune...THAT'S misinformation.

NY07RS4 - I challenge you to show me proof of either of those two claims, made by your friends in the thread on EA. It's ridiculous. Do people really know this little about 4.2 V8 Audis that they cling to shit like this???

Dude, I stand by everything I've posted on these forums. I post what I believe to be true, and back it up. I stand by what I say...I don't run away when the facts are checked. In fact I usually have to chase people who change the subject and talk all kinds shit. Kinda like you're doing.

Do me a favour - address my points in my first post, and in this one. Notably - "Do you already forget when I asked you for pre and post carbon cleaning logs, and when I said in PM the data is a great way to compare a mod/cleaning etc?" and the two points about the custom tune. I'd love to stay on topic and not make this a bitch fest.

Hell, let's ask JHM. Jay/Dan:

1. If a customer has a competitor's downpipes and or catback exhaust (or just mufflers), are they forced to look elsewhere for tuning, i.e. a custom tune?
2. If a customer wants the JHM tune, do they have to get the 2.75" JHM downpipes? Or the 2.75" catback exhaust? Or both?

It is my impression that the JHM tune will adapt as your modlist grows. My S4 has been JHM tuned for the past 12 months, and I have made a couple of waves of modification to the car since then. The tune adapts, and the car gets better every time. My 'logs' show this, as do my quarter mile times. From conversations I've had with JHM RS4 owners, the JHM RS4 tune does the same thing...so why is this theory floating around that these people need custom tunes?

[CHECKERED]

If it means anything, I've been running the bypass kit on my s4 for over two years now. I've yet to have any problems starting my car regardless of the snow/cold winters we've been having

The problem isn’t starting the car, its driving around in cold humid weather and ice forming on the throttle plate, creating two possible scenarios;
1. The throttle is stuck open which turns your car into a Toyota. Or
2. the throttle does not close all the way which turns your car into a Lexus

Some of you are thinking “but unlike Toyota or Lexus we have brake override...” brake override works when you can electronically close the throttle regardless of the throttle pedal position, which won’t work in this case because ice will prevent the motor in closing it all the way.