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  1. #5401
    Active Member Two Rings
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    been looking up some videos in the international youtubes - looks like the issue is believed to be too narrow oil rings, and aftermarket pistons may be the way to go instead of updated Audi pistons which still have somewhat narrow oil rings and force you to use new conrods as well. some people would just fix the old pistons by cutting the oil ring seats wider on the lathe, drilling out the oil holes to make them larger and installing the new aftermarket rings. That was believed to fix the oil consumption issue. if this is fixed, consider timing chain service to be essentially the same as timing belt service, so not too bad really.

  2. #5402
    Senior Member Three Rings B8_Dude97's Avatar
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    Either way. Most reliable motor Iíve had to date.


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  3. #5403
    Established Member Three Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by fastboatster View Post
    been looking up some videos in the international youtubes - looks like the issue is believed to be too narrow oil rings, and aftermarket pistons may be the way to go instead of updated Audi pistons which still have somewhat narrow oil rings and force you to use new conrods as well. some people would just fix the old pistons by cutting the oil ring seats wider on the lathe, drilling out the oil holes to make them larger and installing the new aftermarket rings. That was believed to fix the oil consumption issue. if this is fixed, consider timing chain service to be essentially the same as timing belt service, so not too bad really.
    Not totally correct. This has been explicitly explained, but confusing posts continue to go up.

    Here is what the issues and fixes are:
    1. undersized pistons
    2. obsolete oil control rings and tiny drainback passages. The latter clog.

    The fixes:
    1. install the VW transverse pistons and rings (confirmed by Humble Mechanic Charles)
    2. the Audi official stage 2 fix involves installing new, properly-sized pistons with improved oil rings and drainbacks. The official fix also requires new connecting rods

    Aftermarket pistons may be properly sized, but not have the updates to the oil control rings and drainbacks. Some pistons that are updated can be used with stock connecting rods.

    Your interpretation ignores the fact that the pistons were intentionally made undersized and you really can't fix the issue just by re-ringing. The whole set of pistons have to go.

  4. #5404
    Active Member One Ring
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    Has anyone had any luck with engine cleaners to help slow the amount of oil is being burned? I recently went from 1qt per 150-200 miles to 1qt per 70-90miles... I realize I am just putting off the bigger problem by just adding oil but I need to get by for another few weeks until I can fix the car. Thank you

  5. #5405
    Established Member Three Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by '10avnt View Post
    Has anyone had any luck with engine cleaners to help slow the amount of oil is being burned? I recently went from 1qt per 150-200 miles to 1qt per 70-90miles... I realize I am just putting off the bigger problem by just adding oil but I need to get by for another few weeks until I can fix the car. Thank you
    Go back a few pages- I posted information from German testing where they revealed the engineering problem with the oil rings (in addition to the undersizing problem) where the drain holes are so tiny that they get clogged.

    In your case, 1qt per 70-90 miles means you have severe engine problems and NOTHING is going to work. You need to figure this out. Just keep adding cheap oil, but you need a rebuild or a new/used engine. You likely have scored cylinders and broken rings at this level of consumption.
    Last edited by Kolbenringe; 05-30-2019 at 10:16 AM.

  6. #5406
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by '10avnt View Post
    Has anyone had any luck with engine cleaners to help slow the amount of oil is being burned? I recently went from 1qt per 150-200 miles to 1qt per 70-90miles... I realize I am just putting off the bigger problem by just adding oil but I need to get by for another few weeks until I can fix the car. Thank you
    You may want to leave it in a flood zone during the next big storm with that kind of consumption! That is the highest I have ever heard of. I think you are going to need more than just pistons and rings, like it was said above, you will likely have scored cylinder walls.

  7. #5407
    Senior Member Four Rings Theiceman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianC302 View Post
    You may want to leave it in a flood zone during the next big storm with that kind of consumption! That is the highest I have ever heard of. I think you are going to need more than just pistons and rings, like it was said above, you will likely have scored cylinder walls.
    you would think using that much oil it would catch fire easliy :)
    2014 A4 2.0TQ Technik
    2006 A4 2.0TQ 6spd
    1978 Porsche 911SC Targa
    1976 Yamaha XS 360

  8. #5408
    Established Member Three Rings
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    In the video from the German media regarding the pistons and oil rings, the one guy in there talking about his oil consumption said he was putting in 3 liters per 1000km, so let's say 200 miles and some change per liter. That is still considered by specialist shops out here as repairable without major fuss. I can't imagine going further down we haven't got issues like scored walls. I am betting there are broken rings and/or pistons so badly coked that everything is just flowing right past.

    At that level, there should be oil burning evident out the back. Even when I had my black top PCV, I had blue oil out the back. Now with Audi LL oil, I am gradually improving as time goes on to 1500km/liter after installing the latest white PCV revision (as time goes on, the oil consumption is dropping). I had 5w50 from Fuchs for an extended series of trips and the consumption was minimal. Going on an 8500km trip and that's going back in right before. I'm guessing the PCV seals better after some use from my experience. The black top is horrendous, even before mine failed.

  9. #5409
    Active Member One Ring
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    My car had been burning oil at a rate of about 1 qt per 3-400 miles. Then a couple weeks ago it started leaking due to a rear main seal. Is it worth repairing the seal or is this engine toast. I still owe on the car, i dont know what to do. Thanks

  10. #5410
    Active Member Two Rings chounder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiriyama View Post
    My car had been burning oil at a rate of about 1 qt per 3-400 miles. Then a couple weeks ago it started leaking due to a rear main seal. Is it worth repairing the seal or is this engine toast. I still owe on the car, i dont know what to do. Thanks
    Repair is about $5500....


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  11. #5411
    Active Member One Ring
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    Quote Originally Posted by chounder View Post
    Repair is about $5500....


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    You think it still falls into the stage 2 repair and I wont need an entirely new engine?
    2010 Audi A4 Premium
    2015 Audi S4 Premium Plus

  12. #5412
    Active Member Two Rings chounder's Avatar
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    That youíd have to see with your mechanic


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  13. #5413
    Senior Member Four Rings Theiceman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiriyama View Post
    You think it still falls into the stage 2 repair and I wont need an entirely new engine?
    ypu mean under the warranty ?

    you should have had that done long before your RMS started leaking. Now they will make you fix the RMS leak before they can do the oil consumption test. if you are still in warranty and you are using that much oil they will most likely fix it if you have all service records.
    Its new engine time if you have scored bores. mine was using a quart every 180 miles and the bores were fine so it was rebuildable and is running fantastic.
    The financial piece you will have to decide for yourself after finding out what Audi wants to do.
    2014 A4 2.0TQ Technik
    2006 A4 2.0TQ 6spd
    1978 Porsche 911SC Targa
    1976 Yamaha XS 360

  14. #5414
    Active Member One Ring
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    I bought the car used, so the warranty was never going to be an option. But the rebuild is a lot less than the new engine, so if I can replace the RMS and rebuild it, ill do it, but if im gonna need a new engine ill just park it at the junkyard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Theiceman View Post
    ypu mean under the warranty ?

    you should have had that done long before your RMS started leaking. Now they will make you fix the RMS leak before they can do the oil consumption test. if you are still in warranty and you are using that much oil they will most likely fix it if you have all service records.
    Its new engine time if you have scored bores. mine was using a quart every 180 miles and the bores were fine so it was rebuildable and is running fantastic.
    The financial piece you will have to decide for yourself after finding out what Audi wants to do.
    2010 Audi A4 Premium
    2015 Audi S4 Premium Plus

  15. #5415
    Senior Member Four Rings Theiceman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiriyama View Post
    I bought the car used, so the warranty was never going to be an option. But the rebuild is a lot less than the new engine, so if I can replace the RMS and rebuild it, ill do it, but if im gonna need a new engine ill just park it at the junkyard.
    agreed, but warranty is totally transferable and if you were in the mileage/ timeframe you could have it had it fixed.
    But yes I agree. I had mine scoped , checked out fine, so rebuilt it completely myself. Has been a great car and well worth the investment. 10K CAD for the car and 3K CAD in parts gave ma 13 k CAD ( 10k USD ) for a 2014 A4 Technik in brilliant black with new pistons/ rings/ bearings/ timing gear/ water pump/ .

    Interesting to note that the Audi replacement pistons/rings were a completely different design from my original ones even in a 2014. I don't think we are even close to seeing the last of this problem, just not many 14s have 130k miles on them, so we are at the tip of the iceberg.
    2014 A4 2.0TQ Technik
    2006 A4 2.0TQ 6spd
    1978 Porsche 911SC Targa
    1976 Yamaha XS 360

  16. #5416
    Veteran Member Four Rings old guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiriyama View Post
    My car had been burning oil at a rate of about 1 qt per 3-400 miles. Then a couple weeks ago it started leaking due to a rear main seal. Is it worth repairing the seal or is this engine toast. I still owe on the car, i dont know what to do. Thanks
    Have you checked the diaphragm in the PCV? A defective PCV can cause excessive oil consumption as well as causing the rear main seal to leak.
    A4 Motoza tuned Frankenturbo F21L With full supporting mods plus lots of other fun stuff. Suspension, exhaust, brakes, etc.
    A5 Needs more Fun Stuff: Neuspeed PM / 3.0 TDI intercooler / H&R OE Sport Springs with Bilstein B8's / 20, 25mm spacers / ECS Short shifter / TyrolSport brake stiffeners / Blacked out window trim / 35% tint / RS Grille.

  17. #5417
    Established Member Three Rings
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    This is very good advice and will add:

    do you have a white top or a. black top oil separator? What is the number written on it? The white top ones with the latest revision are designed to reduce crankcase pressures and can help stop seals from leaking.

  18. #5418
    Registered Member One Ring
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    My 2011 a4 quattro burns 1 quart every 1000 miles. It's like a two cycle engine.

  19. #5419
    Established Member Two Rings sparkster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by micahdavis View Post
    My 2011 a4 quattro burns 1 quart every 1000 miles. It's like a two cycle engine.
    If you are out of the warranty for the Oil Consumption test, Try Motul oil it changed my consumption significantly prior to my new piston/rings.
    99.5 A4 1.8TQMS|"All SHOW and NO GO"|GIAC1.5,AWE/BORLA|Southbend Clutch|UUC.SS|KAMEIGrill AutometerBoost/Air& Fuel|Sparco|Milltek HF CAT|H&R C/O|S4 Liner|Greddy TTimer|ForgeDV|Neuspeed Sway Bar|Oettinger RE18-Summer|Stock Winter|14.7sec1/4mile - 180K miles DONATED but not forgotten
    2010 A5 2.0T 6MT Prestige S-Line|APR SII+|APR Exhaust|EuroCode Goodies-SS a must for 6MT|ST Coilovers|FS F14 19x10 ET25 |AWE Gauge||VCDS|Love the VAG 4Bangers unless it eats oil|EurotechMS

  20. #5420
    Active Member Two Rings chounder's Avatar
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    IMG_0308.jpg

    Hereís what the Oil Consumption Repair looks like (Cylinders & O-Rings + Timing Chain)...


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  21. #5421
    Senior Member Four Rings Theiceman's Avatar
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    Badge of honour pic.. we should have a badge of honour thread for all those that have done this on their own
    Here is mine. After you have done one its easy to laugh at those claiming they know what the issue is yet never done it. IMG_8453.jpg

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    2014 A4 2.0TQ Technik
    2006 A4 2.0TQ 6spd
    1978 Porsche 911SC Targa
    1976 Yamaha XS 360

  22. #5422
    Established Member Three Rings
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    Just returned from 9000km in 23 days in mostly Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, and then back to Germany. Shockingly, no issues. There were issues with the oil level, however. It was impossible in Norway to find level ground to park on with enough time to let the oil drain back down to give a proper reading. This led to one possible overfill by a slight amount, but enough where on an uphill, I saw a big puff of blue smoke out the back, but no driveability issues.

    I originally thought that the oil level sender only works on an estimated basis while the engine is running, basing new readings on previous history, which is kind of true, but it appears to actually give a reading, though about 250ml low. Because of the guage being off for like three weeks and the dipstick being completely off, too, I just threw a splash in here and there to make sure it didn't go over.

    Consumption was fine, around 1700km per liter, with a massively overloaded car on hilly terrain that ensured I was often in boost and with high oil temps. It was enough weight that I even blued the rear rotors, which will be changed today or so. They are shot.

    Overall, the behavior of the oil level sender was interesting to observe and see it was partially working on past history, subtracting a certain volume based on kilometers driven, partially actually measuring while the engine was running and estimating off the amount in the pan and adding what was likely in the engine. I know this because there were times I was on inclines while parked and the oil level was practically not registering, then while driving, the guage read something significantly higher, which, during short stops on level ground, appeared to be correct against the dipstick. I don't know where the crossover is where the computer stops estimating based on mileage and starts performing actual measurements.

    Overall, driving in Norway sucks, with low speeds, low RPMs, cameras, and some of the worst roads I've driven. I thought no big deal, but it ended up showing me that these cars don't like such driving, either. I had a buildup of a bit of hydrocarbons in the tailpipes and I was able to pump out some soot on revs a couple times and during kickdowns a couple times I saw smoke out the back for a second. I cleared that all out with some cycles of hard acceleration (dangerous in Norway due to cameras everywhere that not only estimate speed, but time it takes to go through measured corridors). I pulled 250 back home through Germany and all is clean now. I would have imagined that hours upon hours, sometimes 48 hours with nary a stop, would have been good to keep these engines in the self-cleaning combustion cycles, but the low-rpm driving didn't do it any favors. There was some harshness until I opened it up in Denmark and then really opened it up back home. Also there was loss of power, as it was difficult to get past 200kmh first in Germany, then with blasts, power returned gradually and I was up to 250 by the time I got home. No lights or errors. It just wasn't running optimally. Now it's smooth again, no soot, nothing.
    Last edited by Kolbenringe; 07-12-2019 at 12:50 PM.

  23. #5423
    Senior Member Four Rings Theiceman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chounder View Post
    IMG_0308.jpg

    Hereís what the Oil Consumption Repair looks like (Cylinders & O-Rings + Timing Chain)...


    Sent from my iPhone using Audizine
    BTW love those tires, what are they ?
    2014 A4 2.0TQ Technik
    2006 A4 2.0TQ 6spd
    1978 Porsche 911SC Targa
    1976 Yamaha XS 360

  24. #5424
    Established Member Two Rings sparkster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theiceman View Post
    BTW love those tires, what are they ?
    The ones on the car look like Continental DWS 06 or original. The one with the motor on it.. can't tell but priceless picture.
    99.5 A4 1.8TQMS|"All SHOW and NO GO"|GIAC1.5,AWE/BORLA|Southbend Clutch|UUC.SS|KAMEIGrill AutometerBoost/Air& Fuel|Sparco|Milltek HF CAT|H&R C/O|S4 Liner|Greddy TTimer|ForgeDV|Neuspeed Sway Bar|Oettinger RE18-Summer|Stock Winter|14.7sec1/4mile - 180K miles DONATED but not forgotten
    2010 A5 2.0T 6MT Prestige S-Line|APR SII+|APR Exhaust|EuroCode Goodies-SS a must for 6MT|ST Coilovers|FS F14 19x10 ET25 |AWE Gauge||VCDS|Love the VAG 4Bangers unless it eats oil|EurotechMS

  25. #5425
    Senior Member Four Rings Theiceman's Avatar
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    mine coming out ....

    2014 A4 2.0TQ Technik
    2006 A4 2.0TQ 6spd
    1978 Porsche 911SC Targa
    1976 Yamaha XS 360

  26. #5426
    Established Member Two Rings sparkster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theiceman View Post
    mine coming out ....

    is that your 2014?
    99.5 A4 1.8TQMS|"All SHOW and NO GO"|GIAC1.5,AWE/BORLA|Southbend Clutch|UUC.SS|KAMEIGrill AutometerBoost/Air& Fuel|Sparco|Milltek HF CAT|H&R C/O|S4 Liner|Greddy TTimer|ForgeDV|Neuspeed Sway Bar|Oettinger RE18-Summer|Stock Winter|14.7sec1/4mile - 180K miles DONATED but not forgotten
    2010 A5 2.0T 6MT Prestige S-Line|APR SII+|APR Exhaust|EuroCode Goodies-SS a must for 6MT|ST Coilovers|FS F14 19x10 ET25 |AWE Gauge||VCDS|Love the VAG 4Bangers unless it eats oil|EurotechMS

  27. #5427
    Senior Member Four Rings Theiceman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sparkster View Post
    is that your 2014?
    sure is. one quart every 180 miles.
    2014 A4 2.0TQ Technik
    2006 A4 2.0TQ 6spd
    1978 Porsche 911SC Targa
    1976 Yamaha XS 360

  28. #5428
    Established Member Two Rings sparkster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theiceman View Post
    sure is. one quart every 180 miles.
    Wow, didn't know the issue went into 2014 MY.
    99.5 A4 1.8TQMS|"All SHOW and NO GO"|GIAC1.5,AWE/BORLA|Southbend Clutch|UUC.SS|KAMEIGrill AutometerBoost/Air& Fuel|Sparco|Milltek HF CAT|H&R C/O|S4 Liner|Greddy TTimer|ForgeDV|Neuspeed Sway Bar|Oettinger RE18-Summer|Stock Winter|14.7sec1/4mile - 180K miles DONATED but not forgotten
    2010 A5 2.0T 6MT Prestige S-Line|APR SII+|APR Exhaust|EuroCode Goodies-SS a must for 6MT|ST Coilovers|FS F14 19x10 ET25 |AWE Gauge||VCDS|Love the VAG 4Bangers unless it eats oil|EurotechMS

  29. #5429
    Senior Member Four Rings Theiceman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sparkster View Post
    Wow, didn't know the issue went into 2014 MY.
    A lot dont, that's because the cars aren't up there in mileage yet. Mine had 130k on it. It's great now tho

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    2014 A4 2.0TQ Technik
    2006 A4 2.0TQ 6spd
    1978 Porsche 911SC Targa
    1976 Yamaha XS 360

  30. #5430
    Active Member Two Rings chounder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theiceman View Post
    BTW love those tires, what are they ?
    The original Continentals...


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  31. #5431
    Active Member Two Rings chounder's Avatar
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    THE B8 A4 Oil Consumption Thread

    IMG_0309.jpg

    Shiny new pistons (corrected from cylinders) and O-Rings


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    Last edited by chounder; 07-15-2019 at 01:30 AM.

  32. #5432
    Established Member Three Rings
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    Where are the orings and how are the cylinders new?

  33. #5433
    Active Member Two Rings chounder's Avatar
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    THE B8 A4 Oil Consumption Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolbenringe View Post
    Where are the orings and how are the cylinders new?
    Well I guess technically itís the pistons that are new 🤣 which is exactly why Iím not doing any work on my engine!

    There are a pair of O-Rings that surround each piston and sit in the cylinders...


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  34. #5434
    Established Member Three Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by chounder View Post
    Well I guess technically itís the pistons that are new 🤣 which is exactly why Iím not doing any work on my engine!

    The a pair of O-Rings surround each piston and sit in the cylinders...


    Sent from my iPhone using Audizine
    You mean piston rings, which aren't rubber/composite O-rings, named so because in cross-section, they are "O" shaped?

    And what about the oil control rings?

  35. #5435
    Active Member Two Rings chounder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kolbenringe View Post
    You mean piston rings, which aren't rubber/composite O-rings, named so because in cross-section, they are "O" shaped?

    And what about the oil control rings?
    Danke Kolbenringe for the clarification


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  36. #5436
    Senior Member Four Rings Theiceman's Avatar
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    Those look like original Audi Kolbenschmidt fully loaded pistons, so will have all rings from the factory. Did you have to replace the rods too or was your wrist pin side correct ? because i had a 2014 with the larger wrist pin size i was able to get away with only the pistons. I hope you put in new rod bearings at least, quite a few stories of rod bearing failure as the warranty program does not cover this. We will just assume its getting all new timing gear :)
    Also your water pump IS RIGHT THERE . make sure you change it . its only a couple hundred bucks and its a total of 10 minutes to change while your engine it out, and thats including a smoke break of 5 minutes :)
    2014 A4 2.0TQ Technik
    2006 A4 2.0TQ 6spd
    1978 Porsche 911SC Targa
    1976 Yamaha XS 360

  37. #5437
    Established Member Three Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theiceman View Post
    Those look like original Audi Kolbenschmidt fully loaded pistons, so will have all rings from the factory. Did you have to replace the rods too or was your wrist pin side correct ? because i had a 2014 with the larger wrist pin size i was able to get away with only the pistons. I hope you put in new rod bearings at least, quite a few stories of rod bearing failure as the warranty program does not cover this. We will just assume its getting all new timing gear :)
    Also your water pump IS RIGHT THERE . make sure you change it . its only a couple hundred bucks and its a total of 10 minutes to change while your engine it out, and thats including a smoke break of 5 minutes :)
    I don't know how you'd be able to tell the brand, as there are several OE and non-OE manufacturers and they all look the same.

  38. #5438
    Active Member Two Rings chounder's Avatar
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    Jul 03 2017
    AZ Member #
    402112
    Location
    Oregon

    IMG_0336.JPG

    All put back together! Thanks to the guys at Matrix Integrated for the work! Great group of guys and a great shop to work with.

    Next time hopefully we can do some fun stuff.


    Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

  39. #5439
    Senior Member Four Rings Theiceman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 15 2016
    AZ Member #
    368804
    My Garage
    2014 A4Q Technik, 2006 A4Q, 1978 911 Targa,
    Location
    Cambridge Ontario

    nice ...

    what pistons did you go with ?
    2014 A4 2.0TQ Technik
    2006 A4 2.0TQ 6spd
    1978 Porsche 911SC Targa
    1976 Yamaha XS 360

  40. #5440
    Active Member Two Rings chounder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 03 2017
    AZ Member #
    402112
    Location
    Oregon

    Quote Originally Posted by Theiceman View Post
    nice ...

    what pistons did you go with ?
    Just the Audi factory pistons....


    Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

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