Some dyno graphs.........

[Keith@APR]

Enjoy!

Same day, Same Dyno, Same Car using APR's Engineering Test Methods.

We are sharing uncorrected all wheel data, SAE corrected all wheel data, estimated crank data and the delta between each dyno.

Testing days were in the 90+F.

The APR RSC Exhaust was used during the stock and APR Beta ECU dynos.

[drvolkl]

Cool. Sell it to me. :)

[mmart6545]

Enough empirical data for me. Ill be buying the day it comes out.

[Anthony]

Why am I feeling so giddy!?

Now if I heard that AoA was bringing the B8 S4 Avant to the States by the end of the year...I think my head would literally explode!

[madmadS4]

Damn I gotta wash my shorts now.....

[rktskicar]

Enjoy!

Same day, Same Dyno, Same Car using APR's Engineering Test Methods.

We are sharing uncorrected all wheel data, SAE corrected all wheel data, estimated crank data and the delta between each dyno.

Testing days were in the 90+F.

The APR RSC Exhaust was used during the stock and APR Beta ECU dynos.

Keith-

Cool! it It looks like your tune is set up for the high end of the RPM range. What's the reason for this? Isn't that technically a stage 2 run that you are posting (chip + cat-back), with stage 0+ (stock with cat-back)? How much boost is this running on this tune?

Thanks,
Bruce

[Arin@APR]

Technically no, it's not a stage 2 program. Stage 2 programming requires the removal of the catalytic converters. In these graphs the stock catalytic converters are still on the car.

The reason you don't see a huge gain in the mid range is because most of the gains will come from adding boost. There's not much to add in the mid range but boost dramatically bleeds off towards redline which is why we have such a large hammer to throw towards redline. :)

[jeffc31337]

Wow I was dead wrong! Marginal gains through the band but some serious power after 5k rpms! That's going to make for some big gains at the strip.

Now not to be greedy but are completely stock vs. stage 1 dyno results in the queue to be done? :)

[madmadS4]

Yeah I missed that. The gains really take off after 5200 rpm or so. That's great though... to beat the M3 at the top end. Wonder what the max speed is for this car.

[csauer52]

Enough empirical data for me. Ill be buying the day it comes out.

Works for me too. Congrats APR/Keith et al. I'll have you know I'm washing down my serving of crow with a cold Sam Adams.

Thanks for sharing.

[SoCalS4Avant]

Why am I feeling so giddy!?

Now if I heard that AoA was bringing the B8 S4 Avant to the States by the end of the year...I think my head would literally explode!

Yes. This. For sure!

[krunko]

Geez, huge gains over 5000 rpm.

[Un1k]

am I wrong to be a little dissapointed to not see big gains earlier in the torque curve?

[Arin@APR]

am I wrong to be a little dissapointed to not see big gains earlier in the torque curve?

Yes because that's simply not possible. The Supercharger system is designed to run near maximum RPM's at all times and to simply bleed off boost. Lots of boost will give you lots of power. Since lots of boost isn't available down low (running near max), there isn't much room to go up. We can only run as much boost as possible, play with timing, air fuel, cams and a few other things to make more power.

Towards redline is where the factory bleeds off boost heavily. There we are able to make loads more power. :D

[madmadS4]

Yeah I'd say half the low end gains could be attributed to the catback exhaust.

[Un1k]

Yes because that's simply not possible. The Supercharger system is designed to run near maximum RPM's at all times and to simply bleed off boost. Lots of boost will give you lots of power. Since lots of boost isn't available down low (running near max), there isn't much room to go up. We can only run as much boost as possible, play with timing, air fuel, cams and a few other things to make more power.

Towards redline is where the factory bleeds off boost heavily. There we are able to make loads more power. :D

I understand, and am not saying you guys did a great job. But I just felt that it's not the best curve for everyday-fun. It'll just eat up my gas that mch quicker
so am I correct to assume that to gain more power(boost) down low, we need a supercharger upgrade in the future?

[krunko]

Yes because that's simply not possible. The Supercharger system is designed to run near maximum RPM's at all times and to simply bleed off boost. Lots of boost will give you lots of power. Since lots of boost isn't available down low (running near max), there isn't much room to go up. We can only run as much boost as possible, play with timing, air fuel, cams and a few other things to make more power.

Towards redline is where the factory bleeds off boost heavily. There we are able to make loads more power. :D

Does this mean with similar driving behaviors we should see a huge falloff in MPG as long as we're keeping it under 4k RPMs?

[blacka4]

aww shit...this makes me want to rob a back and steal the S4 at my local dealer

[Redbeard]

aww shit...this makes me want to rob a back and steal the S4 at my local dealer

i know how you feel, fortunately you can always pick up a b6 s4 and call it a day

[primetime]

Yes because that's simply not possible. The Supercharger system is designed to run near maximum RPM's at all times and to simply bleed off boost. Lots of boost will give you lots of power. Since lots of boost isn't available down low (running near max), there isn't much room to go up. We can only run as much boost as possible, play with timing, air fuel, cams and a few other things to make more power.

Towards redline is where the factory bleeds off boost heavily. There we are able to make loads more power. :D

So.... the blower is running near max boost down low? boost is what 11-13ish with the tune? What is it up top? Nothing a smaller pulley won't cure....

[M3 Montreal]

am I wrong to be a little dissapointed to not see big gains earlier in the torque curve?

This is actually a VERY good gain. I raced a buddy of mine in his modded 335 and I found that there was no pull on the S4 at round 5800 rpm... Now with this graph you will have pull to redline which is amazing. The worst part is when I have it on Dynamic and floor it the computer runs it to redline which was not optimal stock. I did quicker runs shifting at about 6k.

Also the tq line is nice and smooth with gains throughout the RPM range.

Wish I could see the numbers with JUST the ECU tune and no catback exhaust.

[nick71692]

Damn, now let us buy!

[MiracleWhips]

Why am I feeling so giddy!?

Now if I heard that AoA was bringing the B8 S4 Avant to the States by the end of the year...I think my head would literally explode!

Ditto.

[drew]

lol...its just dyno numbers. let's see how well it does in the real world before you blow your loads....

[Legacykid]

Id like to see a video of maybe one of your s4's with the exhaust(camera car showing gauge cluster so no one can say you dogged it or not) and one s4 with exhaust an stg 1??? talk about a teaser!

Maybe asking to much, but im excited great job guys this is just the beginning

[krunko]

I'm also curious to how an intake would effect these numbers.

[M3 Montreal]

One thing Im not getting are the stock with Cat Back exhaust numbers....

Ideally a cat back exhaust is lucky to get you 10 to 15 hp so lets be optimistic and use 15. APR is saying the stock ecu with exhaust only is 438 hp so take out 15 hell even 20 for the exhaust and we are getting 419 HP stock??? I thought all previous dynos estimated the car to be in the 380 to 390 range stock. I can understand understating by a manufacturer but understating by 90hp seems a hell of a lot.

Am I the only one that sees this or am I making a mistake reading the corrected at engine graph???

[NWS4Guy]

Those numbers are at the crank, corrected, taking into account a 23% drivetrain loss.

[M3 Montreal]

Those numbers are at the crank, corrected, taking into account a 23% drivetrain loss.

That's exactly my point... They are saying the S4 stock is about 420hp at the crank and hence saying that Audi understated HP by about 90!!?? lol thats huge if its true.

[csauer52]

One thing Im not getting are the stock with Cat Back exhaust numbers....

Ideally a cat back exhaust is lucky to get you 10 to 15 hp so lets be optimistic and use 15. APR is saying the stock ecu with exhaust only is 438 hp so take out 15 hell even 20 for the exhaust and we are getting 419 HP stock??? I thought all previous dynos estimated the car to be in the 380 to 390 range stock. I can understand understating by a manufacturer but understating by 90hp seems a hell of a lot.

Am I the only one that sees this or am I making a mistake reading the corrected at engine graph???

What I don't get is that in the corrected all wheel figures "beta ecu upgrade vs stock ecu", it shows a HP gain of 337 vs. 377 = +40hp and 338tq vs. 354tq = +16.

In the corrected all wheel figures "gains over stock" it shows +73awhp & +55 awtq.

Am I reading this incorrectly or is the second graph a peak to trough difference?

[Keith@APR]

That's exactly my point... They are saying the S4 stock is about 420hp at the crank and hence saying that Audi understated HP by about 90!!?? lol thats huge if its true.

We aren't saying anything. We are showing what we measured at the wheels with a stock S4 and the APR RSC vs. What we measured with our ecu calibration added to the same car plus an arguable aftermarket industry standard of 23%. Audi knows best how to rate their cars, not APR.

[NWS4Guy]

This is still corrected numbers, it was 90 degrees that day. I agree that there is not likely that much at the crank stock, however since they are using the same formulas, car, dyno, and everything else, the focus is not on the totals so much as it is on the deltas of the numbers. This shows real world amounts of gains.

http://www.land-and-sea.com/dyno-tec...horsepower.htm

[Arin@APR]

Yeah I'd say half the low end gains could be attributed to the catback exhaust.

The exhaust is a constant. The graph compares stock + exahust vs chipped + exhaust so it's not the exhaust.

am I correct to assume that to gain more power(boost) down low, we need a supercharger upgrade in the future?

More or less yes, that's correct.

Does this mean with similar driving behaviors we should see a huge falloff in MPG as long as we're keeping it under 4k RPMs?

Under 4k a lot of playing around with air fuel ratio and timing gets you more power. Because of this the system as a whole should be more efficient.

So.... the blower is running near max boost down low? boost is what 11-13ish with the tune? What is it up top? Nothing a smaller pulley won't cure....

We haven't released boost figures yet but as soon as I'm able to post them up, I'll show everyone what it does. :
BTW, the charger is already running near it's max RPM at redline so it's not quite as simple as throwing on a really small pulley for more boost.

Wish I could see the numbers with JUST the ECU tune and no catback exhaust.

When we release the software we'll have a full analysis for you complete with bone stock vs chip only. I'll post all back to back same day data to. :)

One thing Im not getting are the stock with Cat Back exhaust numbers....

Ideally a cat back exhaust is lucky to get you 10 to 15 hp so lets be optimistic and use 15. APR is saying the stock ecu with exhaust only is 438 hp so take out 15 hell even 20 for the exhaust and we are getting 419 HP stock??? I thought all previous dynos estimated the car to be in the 380 to 390 range stock. I can understand understating by a manufacturer but understating by 90hp seems a hell of a lot.

Am I the only one that sees this or am I making a mistake reading the corrected at engine graph???

It's best to compare data collected on the same day or same conditions using the exact same collection methods. I don't have any data for the stock exhaust vs APR exhaust on the same day as the data we posted in this thread. You can see the gains from the exhaust only from data on our website!

That's exactly my point... They are saying the S4 stock is about 420hp at the crank and hence saying that Audi understated HP by about 90!!?? lol thats huge if its true.

The crank figures I showed everyone are just simply an estimate using a fixed 23% drive train loss. That seems to be the 'tuner' norm for a quattro car. I also showed all wheel so there is no guess work. Is 23% correct? You decide! You have the wheel numbers so you can use whatever you feel is correct. :)

Audi may have estimated low. Audi may have simply taken the worse possible conditions using the worse gas ever and said "use those figures" so no one would ever dyno under what they say it should make. Bottom line I think we can all safely say this car is making a lot of power from the factory and a lot more chipped.

[Arin@APR]

What I don't get is that in the corrected all wheel figures "beta ecu upgrade vs stock ecu", it shows a HP gain of 337 vs. 377 = +40hp and 338tq vs. 354tq = +16.

In the corrected all wheel figures "gains over stock" it shows +73awhp & +55 awtq.

Am I reading this incorrectly or is the second graph a peak to trough difference?

Take a look at the graph:


It shows HP and TQ gains at every RPM.

Peak power is not the same as peak gains. Peak power is the highest HP the car made. Peak gain is the highest gain it made over the other run.

[madmadS4]

yeah. it concerns me that the 7th chart suggests that the S4+exhaust peaks at 438 hp. subtract out their highest figure claimed for gain on the APR - which is 18 and you get 420 hp for the stock S4. sounds fishy...

[rx7ven]

thanks APR. good work. are you able to share with us if this will be an OBDII upgrade or will we need to ship out our ECU?

[NWS4Guy]

yeah. it concerns me that the 7th chart suggests that the S4+exhaust peaks at 438 hp. subtract out their highest figure claimed for gain on the APR - which is 18 and you get 420 hp for the stock S4. sounds fishy...

Like has been said, a dyno is a tool, it's not an exact and precision "read out the data and this is exaclty what is what." Don't focus so much on the end numbers, look at the overall delta.

[Arin@APR]

yeah. it concerns me that the 7th chart suggests that the S4+exhaust peaks at 438 hp. subtract out their highest figure claimed for gain on the APR - which is 18 and you get 420 hp for the stock S4. sounds fishy...

What exactly is fishy?

We said the car made 377 All wheel HP using SAE correction. If you were to assume 23% drive train loss (which many people seem to feel is correct), you get 489 hp at the crank.

377 / .77 = 489.

[simulacrum]

Anyone have any intel on price, or comparative speculation given cost of prev model upgrades of this nature? New to audi so stumped on probable cost range.....

ETA: ok so i did my homework...$600ish? Really? Time to use the search function to learn abt warranty impacts....

[csauer52]

Take a look at the graph:

It shows HP and TQ gains at every RPM.

Peak power is not the same as peak gains. Peak power is the highest HP the car made. Peak gain is the highest gain it made over the other run.

Got it. Thanks Arin. How many data points are collected in the series in order to make that graph and how do you choose which runs to display? Is the standard to usually plot current vs. previous run or is it at the discretion of the tech to choose which runs are comped and ultimately displayed?