APR Stage II Exhaust Programming - Development Update with Dyno Results!

[Arin@APR]

Several days back APR showed the world a teaser of the new APR Performance RSC Turboback Exhaust Systems in both Dual Exit and Single Exit Configurations.

The APR RSC Turboback Exhaust Systems were so free flowing the Engineers were able to make safe calibration changes which resulted in the following:

1. Significantly reduced turbocharger spool time over both stock software and APR stage 1 software.
On the days of testing, stage 1 torque levels at 2400 RPM's were met and exceded at 2000 RPM's (400 RPM's Sooner!) simply by running APR stage 2 software with the RSC Turboback Exhaust System

2. Significantly increased and broadened the torque curve compared to both stock and APR stage 1 software.
-On the days of testing, stage 2 torque levels rose 89 FT-LBS under the curve compared to stock software. Peak torque rose from 267 ft-lbs to 355 ft-lbs, for a 88 FT-LBS peak increase.
-On the days of testing, stage 2 torque levels rose 66 FT-LBS under the curve compared to stage 1 software. Peak torque rose from 334 ft-lbs to 355 ft-lbs, for a 21 FT-LBS peak increase.

3. Significantly increased horsepower, especially the area under the curve compared to both stock and APR stage 1 software.
-On the days of testing, stage 2 torque levels rose 50 HP under the curve compared to stock software. Peak power rose from 212 hp to 248 hp, for a 36 hp peak increase.
-On the days of testing, stage 2 torque levels rose 27 HP under the curve compared to stage 1 software. Peak power rose from 235 hp to 248 hp, for a 13 hp peak increase.

All of our data was collected on back to back runs and are the results of average data. Data was also collected on the same car during several days of testing. Gains between runs were in some cases higher but we have chosen to show you an average of what you'll expect to see as data can change between runs based on countless variables.

Now for the dyno charts of our development progress!

APR Stage 2 ECU Upgrade with APR RSC Performance Turboback Exhaust System vs Stock ECU and Stock Exhaust.


APR chose to represented at the crank with a modest 12% fixed Drivetrain loss. on a QUATTRO TIPTRONIC B8 A4. Click here to see All Wheel Tiptronic data.

APR Stage 2 ECU Upgrade with APR RSC Performance Turboback Exhaust System vs Stock ECU and Stock Exhaust. (GAINS ONLY)



APR Stage 2 ECU Upgrade with APR RSC Performance Turboback Exhaust System vs APR Stag 1 ECU Upgrade and Stock Exhaust.


APR chose to represented at the crank with a modest 12% fixed Drivetrain loss. on a QUATTRO TIPTRONIC B8 A4. Click here to see All Wheel Tiptronic data.

APR Stage 2 ECU Upgrade with APR RSC Performance Turboback Exhaust System vs APR Stag 1 ECU Upgrade and Stock Exhaust. (GAINS ONLY)




This thread will be updated as development progresses.
APR Stage II ECU Upgrade is a FREE Upgrade for APR Stage 1 Customers!

Exhaust availability and pricing will be released in the near future.

[Ryan_T]

[k9lovr]

Excuse my ignorance, but when you say all wheel horsepower and torque, do you mean at the wheel? So for the Stage 2 at the wheel hp would be 218? If incorrect please explain.

[Keith@APR]

Excuse my ignorance, but when you say all wheel horsepower and torque, do you mean at the wheel? So for the Stage 2 at the wheel hp would be 218? If incorrect please explain.

Jah, dis is correct.

[Skyler@Achtuning]

Wow, that is a huge low/midrange gain!

[Ryan_T]

So, do you have a a more jello-ed eta?

[Keith@APR]

So, do you have a a more jello-ed eta?

End of the month, first week of July'ish.

[cory_can]

any idea on what the gains for the exhaust system by itself are? ....it's kind of hard to see what improvement the exhaust vs. software has on the overall improvement. Also, there are several of us that are already running 'equivalent' free flowing exhaust systems (HFC/test-pipe + exhaust) and would like to know what the software improvements are independent of the your exhaust or if it would be beneficial to swap to your exhaust system vs. the competition.

[Arin@APR]

any idea on what the gains for the exhaust system by itself are? ....it's kind of hard to see what improvement the exhaust vs. software has on the overall improvement. Also, there are several of us that are already running 'equivalent' free flowing exhaust systems (HFC/test-pipe + exhaust) and would like to know what the software improvements are independent of the your exhaust or if it would be beneficial to swap to your exhaust system vs. the competition.

It was not possibly to accurately measure the gains of the exhaust system alone on stage 1 software. MED17, the engine management system, has control routines in place for controlling boost. When installing the exhaust only on the stage 1 software the turbo was spooling up so fast and overshooting boost so much the throttle plate was shutting. This further iterates the need to properly design software for the hardware you're running, especially if that hardware flows amazingly compared to stock.

Software and Hardware must Mesh! We create both. You win.

[cory_can]

It was not possibly to accurately measure the gains of the exhaust system alone on stage 1 software. MED17, the engine management system, has control routines in place for controlling boost. When installing the exhaust only on the stage 1 software the turbo was spooling up so fast and overshooting boost so much the throttle plate was shutting. This further iterates the need to properly design software for the hardware you're running.

Software and Hardware must Mesh!

makes sense....since the manufacturer of my exhaust system is an APR dealer I'm sure they'll do some of their own testing to check "compatibility". Regardless, I'm sure most decent exhaust systems are reducing turbo back pressure enough that your updated software will be beneficial

[Keith@APR]

Regardless, I'm sure most decent exhaust systems are reducing turbo back pressure enough that your updated software will be beneficial

there is some debate regarding that in comparison to RSC though. Traditional exhaust systems use a lot of packing materials and baffles to control the sound volume and frequency. RSC allows for a "straight pipe" style exhaust with no baffles or very little packing material resulting in a lot more flow.

For example, we have decided to offer a RSC exhaust for the B5 S4 simply because its hard to fit a large enough diameter traditional exhaust system on that car and the guys with 600+ hp really need extra flow. RSC allows for this with a diameter size that works for the B5 chassis.

[nefkntym]

t

For example, we have decided to offer a RSC exhaust for the B5 S4 simply because its hard to fit a large enough diameter traditional exhaust system on that car and the guys with 600+ hp really need extra flow. RSC allows for this with a diameter size that works for the B5 chassis.

When will this be available?

[dirtysoil]

So is the Stage 2 file available now, or did I miss something????

[Keith@APR]

So is the Stage 2 file available now, or did I miss something????

Its heading towards the DPP server but its not officially available just yet. Give us some time for some final testing and to make all of the different ecu's available. I'm not sure how long that will take but 3 weeks seems a safe bet.

[blrs25]

Keith or Arin ** Can you speak to the difference in power numbers we might see from the single vs dual exit exhausts? I'm assuming it would be a negligible difference, if any, but always best to ask. Thanks.

[Blake P]

3 weeks seems a safe bet.

Considering how long 2 weeks takes using the APR calendar we'll be lucky to see this released before the end of the year!

[Ryan_T]

^ only one way to find out. Take the demo.

[cory_can]

^ only one way to find out. Take the demo.

demo? I already have APR "stage 1.5" with an exhaust/HFC etc. ....the question is what gains being shown are APR exhaust only vs. just the software upgrade. I suppose I could do my own Dyno testing before/after the true Stage 2 but I figured APR might know already before I spent the money :)

[Nght&Day-B8]

This is honestly the best news ive heard all day. Arin, Keith.. you guys just made my day lol

EDIT: the numbers shown is JUST with an exhaust and the new map correct.. No other supporting mods were on these cars? Also what was changed on the new file specifically, any advanced timing, raised boost, etc?

[Arin@APR]

This is honestly the best news ive heard all day. Arin, Keith.. you guys just made my day lol

EDIT: the numbers shown is JUST with an exhaust and the new map correct? No other supporting mods were on these cars?

Vehicle:
2010 B8 A4

Engine:
2.0 TFSI Valve Lift

Drivetrain:
Quattro

Transmission:
Tiptronic

Fuel:
93 (R+M)/2

Mods:
APR Stage 2 ECU Upgrade
APR RSC Performance Dual Exit TBE

Everything else stock. :)

[Nght&Day-B8]

Vehicle:
2010 B8 A4

Engine:
2.0 TFSI Valve Lift

Drivetrain:
Quattro

Transmission:
Tiptronic

Fuel:
93 (R+M)/2

Mods:
APR Stage 2 ECU Upgrade
APR RSC Performance Dual Exit TBE

Everything else stock. :)

Beautiful, cant wait :) what was changed on the new file specifically if you dont mind me asking.. any advanced timing, raised boost, etc?

[Arin@APR]

Beautiful, cant wait :) what was changed on the new file specifically if you dont mind me asking.. any advanced timing, raised boost, etc?

To name a few:

Boost control
Boost levels
Valve Lift Operation
Ignition Timing
Compensation Mapping
Air Fuel Ratio
Fuel delivery
EGT Protection Mapping
ETC..

Essentially, a lot of stuff. :)

[Kay15]

So do you guys at least know if it will be dual outlet single tips"? Or will it only be Quad and Single outlet Dual Tips?
So how much will the upgrade cost someone who already has the stage 1.5?


So the freer flowing exhaust kind of has a hiccup if not properly tuned. The new stage 2 ecu program will have the optimal performance? Wonder how much more power it will pull from the original, and yea I also am curious as to how much power the exhaust makes over stock, hmm...

[Arin@APR]

So do you guys at least know if it will be dual outlet single tips"? Or will it only be Quad and Single outlet Dual Tips?

So far Dual and Quad. We are working to see if we can offer a Dual exit Single tip but no ETA.

So how much will the upgrade cost someone who already has the stage 1.5?

Free

So the freer flowing exhaust kind of has a hiccup if not properly tuned. The new stage 2 ecu fix will have the optimal performance?

The Exhaust is too much for stage 1 tuning so you'll want our stage 2 software. This will also deliver optimal performance. :)

[johntnethk]

Can't wait to see someone with all the current "Stage II" mods + this software.

If I remember correctly, another member dynoed a 245awhp / 260awtq with GIAC Stage I, AWE catback, and AWE FMIC, on 91 oct.

Hoping a B8 with APR Stage II, HFC+catback / APR RSC, and an Eurocode / AWE FMIC could possibly push 260awhp / 275awtq on 91.

[Arin@APR]

We are putting down over 300 ft-lbs to all 4 wheels on a tiptronic with just the chip and exhaust so if someone has more mods, and APR tuning, they'll be WAY over 275 ft-lbs. :)

[johntnethk]

Yikes.

Quick question. Would the tip be able to safely handle this much power (since you're already putting out over 300 ft-lbs)?

I'm running the APR 91oct Stage I software (229hp/332tq). Assuming the math is correct, Stage II + exhaust would be somewhere around 243hp/354tq on 91. With an FMIC, probably looking at somewhere around 260hp/370tq.

A little worried because I read somewhere that our tip may only handle up to 340ft-lbs?

Note: According to a friend of mine, the B8 tip is the exact same transmission as the one used in the C6 RS6, with the only difference being the torque converter (which if I remember correctly handles up to 620lb-tq). Could be an option for us tip owners.

[naemcivic]

Would this benifit if the vehcile already has a test pipe in place, coupled with stock exhaust?

[Blake P]

Would this benifit if the vehcile already has a test pipe in place, coupled with stock exhaust?

I think this is going to be a FAQ, along with whether this file can be run with a completely stock exhaust system and/or various components of competitor exhaust systems. Hopefully APR reps can comment.

[DavidB8]

Well I think the exhaust is a portion of it. The CAT is going to play a large part. I just don't feel like piecing together cat from here and a pipe from there to get this all together. It would be nice for an all in one CAT and downpipe to be available.

[mikechan929]

This thread will be updated as development progresses.
APR Stage II ECU Upgrade is a FREE Upgrade for APR Stage 1 Customers!

Exhaust availability and pricing will be released in the near future.[/QUOTE]

But my local dealer here said it's no way for free upgrade from Stage one to Stage two wo, can u confirm on it?

[JetBlue]

The answer to that is easy. Your milage will vary if you are not running this exact setup. APR has no idea how it will work since they did not design for it. The real answer is probably yes you will see more gains with stage 2 vs stage 1.5 while running an HFC or test pipe maybe more maybe less.

[Nght&Day-B8]

A question i havnt seen asked.. Will there be different octane files or just a 93 octane? Im fine with 93, but i liked being able to run 100oct with meth injection.

But my local dealer here said it's no way for free upgrade from Stage one to Stage two wo, can u confirm on it?

Careful with that, some dealers will charge you a "labor fee" and say its not free for the new file, it honestly doesnt take over 10 mins to hook up a computer and upload a new file. Try calling other dealers.

[Ryan_T]

A question i havnt seen asked.. Will there be different octane files or just a 93 octane? Im fine with 93, but i liked being able to run 100oct with meth injection.



Careful with that, some dealers will charge you a "labor fee" and say its not free for the new file, it honestly doesnt take over 10 mins to hook up a computer and upload a new file. Try calling other dealers.

If the selling dealer didn't want to honor the 'free' 10 minutes, what's the chance a completely new dealer will be willing to do it? As far as they're concerned, you're even more of a stranger.

[Nght&Day-B8]

wow this makes me happy but a K04 or gt2871r should do this car justice

GT28

If the selling dealer didn't want to honor the 'free' 10 minutes, what's the chance a completely new dealer will be willing to do it? As far as they're concerned, you're even more of a stranger.

Well, there is a local APR dealer in miami that will charge a "labor fee" when on the other hand Wolfcars Motorsports will do it for free... after all it is a free upgrade.

[mikechan929]

A question i havnt seen asked.. Will there be different octane files or just a 93 octane? Im fine with 93, but i liked being able to run 100oct with meth injection.



Careful with that, some dealers will charge you a "labor fee" and say its not free for the new file, it honestly doesnt take over 10 mins to hook up a computer and upload a new file. Try calling other dealers.

But the thing is there is only one loca dealer in my area....sigh....!

[linet90]

Way to go APR! Now I need to start saving for all the new mods. Are you guys going to be at Waterfest with the exhaust?

[leviathan18]

wow this makes me happy but a K04 or gt2871r should do this car justice

[naemcivic]

As the days gone by, and now with this Stage 2 tune launch inching closer, I am thinking rather I need an FMIC upgrade? Because APR suggested their exhaust and tune to be paired up to be optimized. Upgraded FMIC is really needed or not? I am on a budget here for mods. I just want to know the order of mods. Exhaust+stage 2 first or FMIC?

[SleeperA4]

In relation to some of the comments about the Stage II tune being necessary does this apply to both the turbo back and cat back options?