Originally Posted by
RS4Jay
Craft - This isn't just a German issue. It's a direct injection issue. And I looked around the forums at several cars before buying my RS4 and trust me, they all have some hyped up fatal flaw according to the owners. The CTS-V's and the Z06 are both US cars and look at some of the issues on those forums. You see a common trend of people hearing things like "not covered under warranty, you drive too hard" etc.. I also looked in depth at a 996 C4S. They have the frequent RMS leaks and not so frequent IMS bearing failures (which destroys the engine in short order). Of course this doesn't stop people from buying them. You just have to replace the RMS every 50k and upgrade to a stronger IMS bearing at a cost of $2k. If you are concerned about having a zero maintenance high performance car you will never buy anything after reading the various forums. Just do your research and know what to expect, then buy the car you like... and of course have a blast with it.
I wil have to checkout the ZR1 and CTS-V, I had no idea they had design issues that affect every car that roll off the floor, maybe they do though, pretty complicated machines themselves. I am especially interested in readin how GM is handling them. C4S is German, and the Porsche issues are actually part of what I had in mind when I was talking about German = High Maint for sports cars that don't feel manufacturer backed, I have read that their maint is even worse, higher, and there are several design flaws that the owners are left to deal with, but that is all anecdotal, I don't remember much in the way of specifics because I stopped researching owning one after reading all of the EXPENSIVE issues with them that to me should have been handled by the dealer, and more importantly were very difficult to DIY manage. BMWs based on my "car guy experience" are known for their issues as well, again probably becaue of being on the bleeding edge with so many features. I only ever owned one (an 88 328is), and I could never keep the damn thing running, and boy was it expensive to fix (no aftermarket mods either). But again, that is more of my perception, I know there are plenty of fine BMWs out there with very happy well taken care of owners, but I just have the perception of a high number of issues (I had a friend with a first year 745i where it was in the shop more than in his garage with CRAZY problems, that has probably jaded me... so my opinion doesn't really count there given it is not personal experience). As for Mercedes... even more anecdotal, I hasve never owned one, I have drooled over many though, excellent machines (I will own an AMG some day, just for the experience), but again from friends who have owned them, high incidents of quality issues. My main point on singling out "German" is that in the car circles I have run with, the general perception of the big three German manufacturers is "great cars, but a real PITA and expensive to own, and cold dealer experiences). For these problems in this thread which are the only ones I am really qualified to speak of, to me it is an Audi issue, given that the "flaws" aren't equitably dealt with for the customer. Every thing will have flaws, it is how they are dealt with that makes a difference. I used to be a domestic car guy (still am really, I appreciate all nice cars, no matter who their maker is :)), but the difference in my personal experience with both Ford and Chevy was that they took car of me when their design flaws impacted the performance or safety of the car, with NO INTERVENTION on my part, sometimes I didn't even have to ask! Of course this was in the 90's and early 2000's when money grew on trees and the big three weren't on the verge of melt down, with my previous 00 Mustang GT, Z28 Camaro LT1, 04 Explorer, my current 07 MKX, (and a few others) the service is better, they actually TRY to fix what is going on with the car(although issues were rare relatively speaking), and new models seem to try to correct past mistakes. Invariably they would bend over backwards when I had issues and get them resolved. Maybe it is because they get sued into TSB faster??? I dunno. With my RS, I get the feeling that my dealer wants to help, but the CANNOT... lets just throw some FI cleaner (which is idiotic and doesn't do a damn thing), clear the CEL and send me on my way, another 60 miles round trip for nothing. The one thing I will Google about is the affects of DI on other cars now that it is common, to see if other manufacturers either (a) come up with a system to prevent it that actually works, (b) at least take care of it without making the customer beg, or (c) tell people to get bent. If all manufacturers have become the same in dealing with the clientele that purchase their highest end vehicles, then I won't feel so bad about Audi I suppose, vs. about where we are headed in general.
To give an example of a car manufacturer that actually DID something, think about the GT-R and launch control... it was NOT documented in the owners manual, but it was widely publisized. If someone used it and broke their tranny, boom no warranty... at first. Then they capitulated in most cases and covered it (from what I read), and THEN they actually fixed the root cause of the problem in a relatively short period of time(granted it was an easier problem) with an ECU flash canging the RPM point where the clutch engaged, etc., and as a bonus, cars that were flashed drove out with better performance, like a free GIAC chip!!!
In my ownership (and when I was a line tech, granted only for a couple of years dedicated, but I still have professional experience) of both JDM and US cars(we never really say Swedish, German, etc. come in to the used car side)... I have never seen this degree of the "get bent" type of customer service(I have seen the screw the customer over for $ though, which was worse, but that was the people, not the company), nor have I personally seen issues of this type with cars rolling off of the factory floor for so long with NO RESOLUTION. With my own peronal JDM and US cars, you don't mess with it, just take care of it, and it runs... and usually, if you messed with it and knew what you were doing, it runs better, but it still just runs. Of course a lot of those are just "transportation" :). But then there was the TT Supra... that was a hell of alot more than transport, but I don't recall anything like that with those when I worked at the Toyota dealer. The biggest problem with those was being able to GET one.
The big difference probably is that these cars are indeed more advanced and high strung, i.e. on the leading edge of demanding technology on the mechanical edge(>8000 RPM redline, woo hoo!), so it makes sense statistically that there would be more problems. BUT, the difference... I don't get squat from Audi regarding support, even with repeated CELs, demonstrated rough idle (bouncing between 800-1400RPM at random intervals), and absolutely no top end power anymore (past 6000 RPM), where this car is supposed to shine, what I PAID for over my S4. I cannot speak for other car companies and DI (yet), but COME ON.... how long has it been, and it seems to take extreme patronage (translated to financial leverage) to get them to fix it, or hitting the right dealer, or something, certainly no consistence and it takes them FOREVER to deal with issues. My LOCAL dealer is great, I really like them, but they are hamstrung by AofA, at least that is the impression that I am getting, and it alienates me a customer from the brand. DRC, again, COME ON. it has been 8 flipping years... and still people have to fight (in SOME cases) and go through hell in some cases to ge it fixed. There should be ZERO, let me say that again ZERO cases where someone has to fight if there is a demonstrated known issue on their $75K car. Considering the potential issue if it/when it breaks, they should be pre-emptively fixing them all NOW via TSB... but NOPE. Took lawsuits to take care of them on the 03 RS6's... and LOTS of bad publicity. Dealing with AofA (or is is it Audi of Europe?) feel like dealing with mail in rebates, looking for any excuse whatsoever not to cover you. I have PERSONALLY experienced this... so these are My opinions and feelings... and as an Audi customer I believe I am entitled to express the difference in my experiences vs. my dealings with other car companies.
Getting back to the point... even with all of this... because Audi builds such a fine machine with the RS4(and many others, they are a very nice engineering company, I think one of the best)... I bought one knowing what I was in for, in the back of my mind hoping things would change given how much Audi seems to be stepping up their advertising campaign here in the states... i.e. that they would step up their support as well. Een if not, I still have a machine that I appreciate everyday, and I would deal with the frustration because I guess you cannot have everything.
Anyway, I have to go pack now, I am taking a 12 hour round trip so that I can spend a day to clean my own f*cking valves and get my car back to its best... I will take my frustration out by scrubbing on that CB :).
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