Turbo Flow Charts Needed

[flashburn]

Hi guys. I've searched here, turbo suppliers, and google and the wiki without finding what I need. Does anyone have flow charts for a K03, k04, GT2X, GTRS, GT28R and GT2871R eliminator turbos?

EDIT: Found a Ko4 chart:


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[flashburn]

I should note, I need to do some serious math between the series of turbos to decide what I'm wanting to do, so help a guy out!

[Doug@FrankenTurbo]

Are you trying to do comparative airmass info? Something like this (calculation of airflow efficiencies at a set pressure, e.g. 2.2bar)?

[biketsai]

well, first of all what ARE you trying to do?

[97B518TQM]

wow, you need flow charts to decide between a K03, K04, GT2X, or GT28 eliminator?
Maybe you should focus on comparing supporting mods/costs first. K03 and K04,... flow charts are a joke. GT2X, nice early spool up with power and torque lasting until 5k or so with a very sudden drop after that. GTRS and GT2871R,... much more power, slightly later spool up, power stable until 6.5 - 7k rpm. There, I just gave you a summary of all the flow charts you can find and need.

[B5A4Kevin]

you left out the efficiency ranges of each turbo in repsect to pressure ratio, as well as volumetric output. both of which are pretty much the entire point of a compressor map/flow chart.

k03 isnt gonna like anything past 20 psi
k04 can handle slightly more and wont taper as much as a k03.
elims can push out 25ish while staying within the biggest efficiency islands, but the turbine housing, manifold, and exhaust become limiting.
past that, internals and supporting mods are a big factor. full frame gt30xx should be capable of 25ish psi, but WAAAY more volume compared to a k04/gt2x/elim. upgraded internals and a stout fueling system are required, even on low boost (15psi). search and you will find almost anything you need to know about most specific setups. hope this helps. peace.


edit: btw, it would help if you listed your goals and we can help push you in the right direction (300hp daily pump? 4-500hp c16 track car? 9-second E85 800hp VR6T (big props to chris green @uspmotorsports)? somewhere in the middle?

[97B518TQM]

you left out the efficiency ranges of each turbo in repsect to pressure ratio, as well as volumetric output. both of which are pretty much the entire point of a compressor map/flow chart.

True, but will that make your driving experience any different? There is so much info on these 5 turbos that flow charts are useless now. If you are comparing some high output turbos then ya, it's useful to know all these characteristics to be able to custom tune and so on. For these turbos, you end up with some off-the-shelf tune and none of this matters.

[flashburn]

Are you trying to do comparative airmass info? Something like this (calculation of airflow efficiencies at a set pressure, e.g. 2.2bar)?

You've got the exact right idea. I want to know what each series of turbo flows at .7 bar, 1 bar 1.25 bar and 1.5 bar. Ideally, comparing each turbo to a k04.

[flashburn]

True, but will that make your driving experience any different? There is so much info on these 5 turbos that flow charts are useless now. If you are comparing some high output turbos then ya, it's useful to know all these characteristics to be able to custom tune and so on. For these turbos, you end up with some off-the-shelf tune and none of this matters.

This is the mentality I'm attempting to break. Just because something has an off the shelf tune it doesn't mean its ideal for all users and applications. I'm aware of spool times and HP numbers of all these turbos, but that is irrelevant if I want to know how much air each turbo flows at a certain PSI. A k04 at 20 psi probably does not flow as much as a 2871 at 15 PSI. For instance your car has a standard off the shelf tune and supporting mods to max out your GT2871R. If you didn't want to drive it on full power all the time you may utilize a boost controller, but then you are completely negating the efficiency range of the GT2871R.

Lets say I wanted your exact setup but I only wanted to boost to 15 PSI to make 250HP (pulled out of ass number). Yes I could achieve that with a smaller turbo but it would be making 20 PSI to make the same power. I don't want to spin a little k04 that fast because it decreases the life of the turbo and works everything in the system harder. So I'd like to find the ideal turbo to make ~250hp but not work the turbo as hard. Yes I know, this will result in more lag. So if I could get the flow charts of all these turbos I could then make an informed decision on what supporting mods I'd need to only make 250HP out of each turbo while still retaining the potential to make more power should I decide to down the line.

[B5A4Kevin]

from your posts, i would recommend a t3 flanged full frame turbo. you could start with a 2871 garret unit for streetability. if you get tired of that you can rededicate the manifold to a hta3076r. Rods, Rings, Bearings, and Belts are recommended. just change injectors and tune. may need to switch to 044 bosch fuel pump based on setup.

[grillhands]

Find out how much lbs/min a turbo flows. With that, you can times that number by 9.5 (estimate) for 1lb of boost equals 9.5hp. I want 300awhp so i had to go with a t3/t04e turbo with 42lbs/min. 42 x 9.5=399crank hp so with the drivetrain loss i should be at or little above 300awhp. My gt2x flows 31lbs/min which is 294chp so i'm probably around the 215-220awhp. Hope this is helpful.

[Doug@FrankenTurbo]

For the Garret based turbos you can refer to their site.

I have found it helpful to chart the efficiencies of various turbos on the basis of a given boost level. This gives a "snapshot" view of how different turbos will perform under a specified load. this graph illustrates the performance curves of four competing "small" turbo compressors. It was done by taking measurements from the various MAPs, such as that for the K04-20 above.

[flashburn]

For the Garret based turbos you can refer to their site.

I have found it helpful to chart the efficiencies of various turbos on the basis of a given boost level. This gives a "snapshot" view of how different turbos will perform under a specified load. this graph illustrates the performance curves of four competing "small" turbo compressors. It was done by taking measurements from the various MAPs, such as that for the K04-20 above.

Perfect!! Thank you!!

[97B518TQM]

Looks like the best turbo for you, judging from your other thread also, will be the GT2X. I have had it and it was one of the most fun turbos I've had on my car.

[Dynamite]

slappys F4H-l frankenturbo might be a worth looking into instead of a gt2x, its cheaper and is showing good results on the b6s. I dont have any maps for you though sorry