The Official B7 A4 Dyno Thread

[ericpaulyoung]

Listen be more optimistic for our platform, there is a way and I'm going to show you, I dont want to reveal everything but along with the fueling, I'm getting an APR machined head.

Well, you would be way better off buying a Frakenturbo or a CTS K04, or similar with that cash. WAAAAAY more bang for your buck if your choice is between a ported head and K03 vs. a stock head and a K04 variant. I would be willing to bet that you will likely see less then a 10 whp increase slapping a ported head on a K03 build, and it will cost you 2k. I like the ported heads, but the they are definitely not the bottle neck on a K03 build.
Eric

[drumnjuny]

hahahahahahaha dear god this is unreal

[ultraleggera a4]

Im not going for cheap power im going for max power. You don't think I know that all ready, the turbo selection is the final peace after I max out the k03 for fun. I'm doing this the right way building it from the inside out so I came achieve the k03 record. also this motor going to be transplanted into a donor car. I must have quattro.

[ultraleggera a4]

hahahahahahaha dear god this is unreal

Why not I have the money for it so what the hell, Im not going to get into a pissing contest with you but those are my personal goals.

[drumnjuny]

yeah i can get behind that... max out the CVT then swap it with the k03 max out the quattro 6MT and then go big turbo. just seems like a lot of time lol

[jimrobbington]

It's still hard to believe it could be possible though. You can hit 25-30 psi on a K03, it is possible. But it is so far out of its efficiency range at that point, I don't think any amount of cooling and fueling could hold it for more than a second. Don't get me wrong, I hope you prove every one of us wrong. Maybe there is that much room left in tuning, since no one ever really does custom stage 2 tunes. Would really be a game changer though, if custom tuning could net you 50 or so more whp than OTS tunes.

Sent from my porcelain throne.

[ultraleggera a4]

It's still hard to believe it could be possible though. You can hit 25-30 psi on a K03, it is possible. But it is so far out of its efficiency range at that point, I don't think any amount of cooling and fueling could hold it for more than a second. Don't get me wrong, I hope you prove every one of us wrong. Maybe there is that much room left in tuning, since no one ever really does custom stage 2 tunes. Would really be a game changer though, if custom tuning could net you 50 or so more whp than OTS tunes.

Sent from my porcelain throne.

And thats what I'm here for , and there is a way just lower combustion temps along with compression ratio.
The reason I have higher horsepower is because I have lighter piston and rod combination, so I lost torque due to less rotational mass being moved

[ultraleggera a4]

yeah i can get behind that... max out the CVT then swap it with the k03 max out the quattro 6MT and then go big turbo. just seems like a lot of time lol

I have nothing but time and I've only been working on my a4 for a year and a half

[ericpaulyoung]

It's still hard to believe it could be possible though. You can hit 25-30 psi on a K03, it is possible. But it is so far out of its efficiency range at that point, I don't think any amount of cooling and fueling could hold it for more than a second. Don't get me wrong, I hope you prove every one of us wrong. Maybe there is that much room left in tuning, since no one ever really does custom stage 2 tunes. Would really be a game changer though, if custom tuning could net you 50 or so more whp than OTS tunes.

Sent from my porcelain throne.

You are right on the money; the K03 simply cannot push the air. Doesn't matter what you do, you will never have the flow to produce the power.


There is a way, though I am hesitant to mention it. I don't know you and can't tell if you would be interested, but there is a story about this stuff called nitrous. A 100 shot system might get you there. Remember the wisdom from Vin Diesel in the opening scenes of the Fast and the Furious part I, you don't want to shoot your wad too quick. Hold off until about 4000 rpms when the K03 starts to drop like a hot potato, then let the first 100 shot go!, follow this with another, and another until you hit 6300 rpms (this is max power for our cars). With the ported head, a 4" straight pipe exhaust, and the right cone filter, you can probably make your goals.

You gotta pay to play, but from your posts I can tell you already know this. Good luck, and God Speed! I am excited to see the dyno, with each nitro shot just ploughing up the chart with horsepower screaming to 350 awhp. I can hear Michael Buffer yelling in the background "the new world champion of K03 dynos..."

Please, please, get a video of the dyno run. It is sure to be da bomb!

- Eric

[ultraleggera a4]

You are right on the money; the K03 simply cannot push the air. Doesn't matter what you do, you will never have the flow to produce the power.


There is a way, though I am hesitant to mention it. I don't know you and can't tell if you would be interested, but there is a story about this stuff called nitrous. A 100 shot system might get you there. Remember the wisdom from Vin Diesel in the opening scenes of the Fast and the Furious part I, you don't want to shoot your wad too quick. Hold off until about 4000 rpms when the K03 starts to drop like a hot potato, then let the first 100 shot go!, follow this with another, and another until you hit 6300 rpms (this is max power for our cars). With the ported head, a 4" straight pipe exhaust, and the right cone filter, you can probably make your goals.

You gotta pay to play, but from your posts I can tell you already know this. Good luck, and God Speed! I am excited to see the dyno, with each nitro shot just ploughing up the chart with horsepower screaming to 350 awhp. I can hear Michael Buffer yelling in the background "the new world champion of K03 dynos..."

Please, please, get a video of the dyno run. It is sure to be da bomb!

- Eric

The i will most likely use c16 to get my end result, lmao if that doesnt f*uck it, nitrous it is.
Seriously i hope you guys just accept it when it does happen and dont put me down im just looking for the max potential of the FSI platform, and still have a very high efficiency.

[NODO-GT]

I bought PerfExpert App and did dyno measures with it, turned out to be pretty accurate!
I did several runs and got consistent results +-3HP.


Although I doubt Peak HP would be at top end... :)

[ericpaulyoung]

Man that is cool. Peak hp for our cars is at 6300 rpms, so it is in the right spot too.

- Eric

[ericpaulyoung]

Here is my first try with the app.

[ericpaulyoung]

That was using a curb weight of 3280 pounds. I will have to get an actual weight so that it calculates a more accurate value. What did you use in the app for weight?

[ericpaulyoung]

And a second run

[A-BlacK_MambA-4]

Wow reading up on that app it looks really cool and reliable when they compared it to an actual dyno. So is it just a second gear pull I'm assuming to get the numbers?

[ericpaulyoung]

Ya those were second gear runs. I just flashed a tune with a 30 psi max, so we will see how it looks.

Eric

[ericpaulyoung]

OK, upped the boost on the top end to hold pressure more, and added more meth (and adding it earlier too), and it is feeling fast. I picked up the top end to hold 27-28 psi closer to redline, and it helped the top end. Still not at 30 psi and my wastegate duty at 6000 is 87%, so I don't have much headroom left. I am going to try lifting the duty limit to 95% by 6500 rpms, and see if I can get the turbo with a solid 30 psi up by redline. That should get me close to 400 awhp. Once I get the app based dyno showing consistent 400 awhp, I will schedule a real dyno up in Portland :)

[NODO-GT]

WOW,
Amazing power ericpaulyoung :)
glad you liked the App. So I guess it should be pretty reliable as long as you set it up right and make a good clean run.
I filled Advanced setting for car (did quite a lot of searching to get reliable numbers) and it looks like this:

Crub weight I used was 1490kg which is same as your 3280 pounds.
You can see I added 160kg of additional weight, which should be correct as I had 1 passenger in car + fuel in trunk and other small stuff in the car.

And second gear ratio was set to: 2.053

Smoothing was set to - normal
Also I used 2.8 Pitch for S-Line suspension and 18inch low profile rubber...


Also how do you think, is 240HP normal for my A4 with only Tune and Test Pipe?
I'm feeling like I'm down on power, also sometimes I get underboost check light...

[ericpaulyoung]

It is definitely a fun app, though I can get different results depending on if the phone is inclined or flat. Since it is using the acceleration, it "can" be accurate, but I would say it is "for information only" type of measurement. Gotta play around with it some more to see if I can make exactly the same numbers each time, but right now it is pretty good.

As for your numbers, I would check out the first page of this thread. It has a bunch of dynos for different setups.

Thanks for showing me the app, it is fun for sure! :) As long as it is consistent, I am going to use it to judge the different setups I try. That is what is really important to me, being able to measure if the car is getting better or not.

- Eric

[drumnjuny]

wow that's fucking awesome haha, but if it uses GPS then haha idk how accurate it could be. even 50lbs difference might make a huge difference! btw i think our cars are considerably heavier than 3280? 3550 dry is what i remember. the FrontTrak might be 3200 but quattro is definitely higher. that 300 lbs should definitely affect your dyno a bunch! you'll be over 400awhp if u make the adjustment to the weight

[ericpaulyoung]

Ya I changed it to 3800 pounds. I am actually more interested in consistency than absolute numbers. That way I have another method to measure performance changes while I tune. I don't think the 2863 will push enough air for 400 awhp, but it gets work done down low for sure. I expect the top end highest hp number I will see on a real dyno will be somewhere in the 380 awhp range. I will be happy for anything over 350 awhp though :)

- Eric

[fordyoz]

sickkk i just got this. looking forward to playing around

[drumnjuny]

Ya I changed it to 3800 pounds. I am actually more interested in consistency than absolute numbers. That way I have another method to measure performance changes while I tune. I don't think the 2863 will push enough air for 400 awhp, but it gets work done down low for sure. I expect the top end highest hp number I will see on a real dyno will be somewhere in the 380 awhp range. I will be happy for anything over 350 awhp though :)

- Eric

i would love to be in the 350+ range

[ericpaulyoung]

i would love to be in the 350+ range

huh? You want to decrease your hp? ;/

[drumnjuny]

huh? You want to decrease your hp? ;/

haha no... i'm at wastegate pressure due to my boost fluctuation issue, on a base file, have an oil leak, still have my startup issues, i would like to get my car back anywhere near 350awhp lol. soon, though!!

[jimrobbington]

Yeah. I have weighed my car on a truck scale. Always at 3600 lb without me in it.

[arowanajl]

I bought PerfExpert App and did dyno measures with it, turned out to be pretty accurate!
I did several runs and got consistent results +-3HP.


Although I doubt Peak HP would be at top end... :)

Here is my first try with the app.

Does this app work with WIFI OBD2? I've been using DashCommand and it's been fairly accurate on the dyno numbers. However it doesn't do 0-60 1/4 mile and such. Just wondering if it's worth the money to get this app. Also wondering how accurate it really can be with out OBD2 interface on performance parameters.

[ericpaulyoung]

Nope, it works by measuring the actual acceleration of the vehicle and then doing an F=MA calculation. To get the rpm's, it uses the gear ratio that you specify and just back calculates it.
Eric

[drumnjuny]

haha consistency and accuracy are two separate concepts though. not sure i would trust the precise measurements of a (most likely integrated) phone GPS chip...

[alphaVR]

AutoInterests in our area had a Dyno day at Smokey's Dyno & Performance here in Akron... had a BLAST, with me, a bunch of my friends, and a ton of others getting their cars on the rollers. Since i just got the car 2 months ago, I really wanted to see what it was doing on pump (93oct) gas, especially since I know its running pig rich and in dire need of a retune.

Here's my dyno sheet from 2 pulls they did. Top is A/F ratio, buttom hp/torque.

Overall Im really satisfied with what it did, but know that the car has a LOT of power left to be made. Im planning on taking my car back to Smokey's in early sept to get a full dyno tune and see how far the retune will take the car.

Car Info:
2008 Audi A4 2.0T Quattro Avant (w/ AWE Stage 3 Turbo Kit)
GT 2871R Turbo
AWE Tuning Stage 3 Manifold
RS4 Injectors
High-flow cat to 3" catback
AWE/ER FMIC
GIAC Pump Gas Tune
Runs ~20lbs of boost

[stupdfresh]

So I download the PerfExpert app before I went APR Stage 2+ (got the car flashed today) and I did some before/after logs using the app... the HP and TQ numbers I got originally seemed pretty accurate for a stock b7 (shown below)

All variables remained constant between runs (expect the weather conditions):
**pulled specs from http://www.audiworld.com/model/a4/07/A4_tech.pdf**

Car Weight: 3550 lb
Additional Weight: 190lb (just me in the car and I weight ~165lb)
Displacement: 1984 cc
Wheel dimensions: 235/35R18
Cd: 0.33
Transmission: All Wheel Drive
Final Drive Ration: 3.889
Measure beginning rev: 2000 rpm
Pitch: 3
2nd Gear Ratio: 2.053

Phone Placement: As the instructions read... "Place phone angled in the direction of travel between 0 and 90 deg". (I used the center console cup holder, with the phone angled in the cup holder its creates a nice snug fit)

Stock A4 2.0T w/ RAI Test Pipe, Stasis Cat Back Exhaust
7/26/13

Average of 3 runs (all three runs were +-5/5 hp/tq)


One of the Dyno Charts


APR Stage 2+ 2007 A4 w/ RAI Test Pipe, Stasis Cat Back Exhaust
7/30/13

Average of 3 runs (all three runs were +-5/10 hp/tq)


One of the Dyno Charts


I know these numbers arent exact but its a good tool for showing your delta gain. I plan on getting carbon clean and FMIC soon, I will post results.

[AudiA4_20T]

That is actually probably pretty accurate

[ericpaulyoung]

AutoInterests in our area had a Dyno day at Smokey's Dyno & Performance here in Akron... had a BLAST, with me, a bunch of my friends, and a ton of others getting their cars on the rollers. Since i just got the car 2 months ago, I really wanted to see what it was doing on pump (93oct) gas, especially since I know its running pig rich and in dire need of a retune.

Here's my dyno sheet from 2 pulls they did. Top is A/F ratio, buttom hp/torque.

Overall Im really satisfied with what it did, but know that the car has a LOT of power left to be made. Im planning on taking my car back to Smokey's in early sept to get a full dyno tune and see how far the retune will take the car.

Car Info:
2008 Audi A4 2.0T Quattro Avant (w/ AWE Stage 3 Turbo Kit)
GT 2871R Turbo
AWE Tuning Stage 3 Manifold
RS4 Injectors
High-flow cat to 3" catback
AWE/ER FMIC
GIAC Pump Gas Tune
Runs ~20lbs of boost

You are waaaaay rich past 4000 rpm's. Dyno looks great but you would get measurable increases if you brought that AFR up to a Lambda of .82 - .84

Eric

[ericpaulyoung]

Here is my latest with the new intake and running .83 lambda with 30 psi boost.

[alphaVR]

You are waaaaay rich past 4000 rpm's. Dyno looks great but you would get measurable increases if you brought that AFR up to a Lambda of .82 - .84

Eric

Yup... thats why the same guys who did the dyno will be doing a full retune of the car in early sept. 300 at the wheels should be fairly easy to get to, and im pretty excited about that.

My only concern is not knowing where the limits of the engine is... namely with stock internals. I don't want to go past a threshold im not aware of and break the engine. That would REALLY suck...

That dyno graph you posted... is that measuring wheel or crank HP?

[ericpaulyoung]

... namely with stock internals. I don't want to go past a threshold im not aware of and break the engine. That would REALLY suck...

whoa there, did you just say stock internals?

Umm, I wouldn't push it at all actually, at least not until you got some fresh rods/rings/journals in there. From the spin up I am guessing you have a .84 AR, and this should smooth the peak out (looks nice and smooth right now), but still, the rods in our cars are pure unadulterated crap.

That dyno graph you posted... is that measuring wheel or crank HP?

It is an estimate only, and it is at the crank. I use the most good looking correction (DIN 70020), with SAE J1349 correction factors the peak estimated power is 388 hp at 6287 for that run. The app is a total estimate, and I just use it for back to back comparison of one run against another to see if changes I make are good or bad. So basically I just use it as a more accurate version of the butt dyno :)

So 388 crank hp would be 302 awhp with a 22% drive train loss (which is about right for our quatros).

[ericpaulyoung]

Are those dyno charts you show corrected or uncorrected?

[alphaVR]

uncorrected from their superflo dyno. so what you see is what I have at the wheels.

if my internals need addressed before i get retuned i need to know asap so I can cancel my appointment. Its one or the other right now... I thought these engines were good for the power on stock stuff at the boost/power im running...

[Operator]

If you stay on the OTS tune, you are fine. If you are having a custom tune that aims at maxing your build, I'd reccomend rods at a min.