Carbon Build Up

[ronin152]

I am in the market for an a4 and have been looking at both the 2.0t and the 3.2. I found a 2007 3.2 sline manual with 40,000 in really good shape. I have been reading around that the FSI engines experience carbon build up problems. I have read the sticky but was just wondering exactly how common this issue is? Like does it occur in 50% or cars or 100%? Also how detrimental is the carbon build up to the engine? Will the engine always run or could it reach a point where the build up could cause serious damage? Sorry if these are noob questions I just don't want to buy an a4 and find that I am going to have to be serving it every week. Would a can of seafoam like every 2 weeks do any good?

[ElCapitan464]

well what the fsi does is force injected the fuel, so that mean the rods get gunk on them and also along the sideway, which then decreases the efficiency of air flow going into the motor, which means less HP and the turbo starts to die at a lower rpm than it should, hope that helps

-nick

[Sal_B7]

nature of the beast. You can do things to help decrease the carbon build up but its going to happen. I guess just depends on the car i guess. Some people have the carbon build up on low mileage and some people dont really show after 100K miles. Just depends i guess. If you are sooo worried about it then get a B6 A4 or B6 S4. No worries about carbon build up there. Or if you have some extra cash get a B7 S4, same engine as the B6 S4 with no carbon build up.

[A4_Eyez]

Well, first of all it happens in 100% of cars whether it be extreme or not. But, I have heard and read that it is minimal in the 2.0T FSI engines due to it being a force induction engine. I think if you keep up with your oil changes at the right intervals (5-6k miles) and maybe get the BG Induction cleaning every 25k miles you should be okay. IMO in addition, you should also get a manual cleaning of the intake valves at 60-75k. I guess I'm just a maintenance freak because I need this car for the long haul and I just love this car; the way it drives and looks.

To the OP, just look for one with the lowest miles you can and also get an indy shop to inspect it if you can. There is more to these cars then just the carbon buildup i.e. cam follower, pcv valve, diverter valve failures. Little things but make sure you know what your getting into. IMO these things don't overshadow how fun this car is to drive.

GOOD LUCK

[BLACKa4QUAT]

well what the fsi does is force injected the fuel, so that mean the rods get gunk on them and also along the sideway, which then decreases the efficiency of air flow going into the motor, which means less HP and the turbo starts to die at a lower rpm than it should, hope that helps

-nick

???

the rods dont get junk on them from fsi, its the intake valves because there is no fuel being sprayed on them to clean them, the fuel is being directly injected into the cylinder. your post makes no sense.

[ronin152]

Thanks for the help. I need a car that can go till atleast 100K. If the carbon gets so bad is it possible it could fall into the cylinder and mess up the piston?

[BLACKa4QUAT]

Thanks for the help. I need a car that can go till atleast 100K. If the carbon gets so bad is it possible it could fall into the cylinder and mess up the piston?

i think all that happens is a loss in power and misfires... check out the sticky at the top of the forum. it answers most of your questions. running it hard keeps carbon build up at bay, and a catch can can help

[jmars]

Is there a DIY on how to clean valves and such?

[BoSNiaN]

Is there a DIY on how to clean valves and such?

Sorry for the bump but good question. Is there a DIY guide on how to clean the intake manifold (and with what) and if possible, the valves?

[Inked]

Sorry for the bump but good question. Is there a DIY guide on how to clean the intake manifold (and with what) and if possible, the valves?

Search seafoam.










Sent from my iPhone4 using Tapatalk

[doughboy17]

The 3.2L engine experiences carbon BU the same as the 2.0L but does not have some of the other separate problems mentioned above. The BU will happen but my dealership recommended two things to minimize it: 1) the BG Induction cleaning every 30k miles and 2) (directly from the Service Tech.) at least 1x per week "drive like you just robbed a bank").

[BoSNiaN]

Search seafoam.

Apart from sea foam and the BG system...I meant like if I wanted to physically scrub my intake manifold, what chemical agent should I use to break down the build up and what tool(s) should I use for the scrubbing?

[Cannon@RAI]

Yes, the 2.0T's do have the Carbon issues because of how the fuel is directly injected into each cylinder instead of through the head and on the valves and such.

Here at RAI Motorsport, we do roughly 5 of these cleanings a week it seems.
We have seen results with our Snap-On boroscope of before and after results.

The carbon literally gets to a point where its this super hard gunk that will not come off easy, even with brake clean!

Check out this vid of an Audi FSI BG cleaning to see how we do it.

-Cannon

[audib7maniac]

Clean up the carbon build up with the bg cleaning and run W/M injection. See ya carbon build up. Problem solved

[viziers]

Clean up the carbon build up with the bg cleaning and run W/M injection. See ya carbon build up. Problem solved

I'm sorry to say that even with w/m you still get it... At least from what iv'e read anyways as I have no personal experience..... However I can say that at 161k that is on my car I have not had a need to clean them as when I weny BT my valves wder relatively clean for having 111k on them.....


vizi

[THECOUNT]

If your worried about the car going 100,000 miles you need to do a little more homework on the 2.0. The high pressure fuel pump & your cam follower will more then likely need to be replaced well before 100K. The carbon "flush" to remove the carbon is inexpensive compared to the bill for the HPFP & cam follower.

If your looking for a "fun" car the 2.0 can't be beat but like all other cars out there it will require maintenance.

[Jay-Bee]

I happened to get a BG rep in Edmonton's email through work. They were looking for a demo car to use at the audi dealer to show them how to do it and would give me a deal if I made it down, it's a 4 hour drive each way (plus time of work) and they could only do it mon-fri, that was a no go for me and i'm sure someone filled that spot.

One thing I want to think about and look into is, what does all that "tar" (solvent soaked, hot carbon mess) do to the turbine and exhaust?

[THECOUNT]

I happened to get a BG rep in Edmonton's email through work. They were looking for a demo car to use at the audi dealer to show them how to do it and would give me a deal if I made it down, it's a 4 hour drive each way (plus time of work) and they could only do it mon-fri, that was a no go for me and i'm sure someone filled that spot.

One thing I want to think about and look into is, what does all that "tar" (solvent soaked, hot carbon mess) do to the turbine and exhaust?

It seems to build up only on the valves, some are better then others. There was a RS4 that had super low miles (under 30k) that was just caked & I have seen higher mileage 2.0T that have very little.

[yettavr6]

I just rigged up a seafoam contraption last night with a $8 coolant overflow tank from Autozone, and damn did it smoke a lot. Was still smoking a few hours later when i went out and was still smoking this morning. Finally stopped now. Anyway, I plan on doing that a few more times in the next couple of days and then I'm having the BG service done on Wednesday (and then an oil change). I just bought my boyfriend a 2006 GTI with 64k on it and the PO said he never had anything done to remove/prevent the carbon so i figured I better figured out an easy way to seafoam on a regular basis to keep both of our cars running smooth. I know alot of people will say seafoam doesn't help, but i think most of those people were only doing it every 10-15K. I plan on making it easy enough that I can do it once or twice a month.

[b777]

What about motor vac? Does it clean the carbon build up?

[A4Rob]

What about motor vac? Does it clean the carbon build up?

Yes, Seafoam will clean your vacuum lines too if you run it through them.

[b777]

What's a good price to get this done? I think this would take care of my misfire problem.

[thenofjboy]

IIRC the dealer charges $140-160 for BG Induction Service cleaning. I’ll be getting this done soon.

[yettavr6]

I'm getting it done for $125 at Sullivan Tire

[mr shickadance]

the problem is much more of an issue with N/A FSI motors, the 2.0t's do get carbon build up but not enough to hinder the performance like it does with the rs4 motor or even the 3.2 v6 that comes in the model up from the a4.

a good BG clean, seafoam, catch can and water meth are the 4 best things to help you avoid carbon build up problems, the first two being cleaning services and the last two being more of the preventitive maintence, iof you do all 4 the motor will last you for a very very long time just look as vizi, who by the logic of things should be having the most problems out of all of us what with a car over 150 miles, bigger turbo (which i can only imagine puts more strain on the car)


also while your car is fully warmed up taking up to redline a few times a week will help your carbon problem believe it or not

[GA42.0T]

Thanks Shick. I'm definitly in it for the long haul. I've got a 2008 CPO with only 42K miles, but see a seafoam treatment and that new 034 catch can kit in the near future.

[mr shickadance]

the seafoam is honestly one of the easiest things i have done on my car, and i would say that on a scale of 1 to 10 10 being completely mechanically sound, im about a 2.....maybe a 3 so it really is not too bad i think i will be doing it every 3rd oil change of something

[GA42.0T]

I mentioned this to my mechanic - about carbon buildup being one of the few common problems with our 2.0T FSI, and seafoam as a way to clean it - and he said he'd be reluctant to use seafoam often because as a strong solvent, it could damage the cat. Not sure what the consensus is on what, if any, harm repeated/often seafoam can do, but certainly every 20-30K miles wouldn't hurt too much.

He said the pro way, or old school way to clean the backside of the valvues is to pull the intake and blast 'em with crushed walnut shells. Beats me. I'm just saying.

[mr shickadance]

the walnut shells is the #1 way to clean but the cost-to-effectiveness seems to be a bit high for me to consider it, if i had an rs4 it would be different story to me

[groundround]

the walnut shells is the #1 way to clean but the cost-to-effectiveness seems to be a bit high for me to consider it, if i had an rs4 it would be different story to me

are you serious? and whats the cost for something like that if your not fooling around. I am getting a ton of misfires due to carbon build up I believe and did the seafoam and do not think it helped to much. I am thinking the BG treatment might be a little better.

[thenofjboy]

^ yeh they are serious regarding blasting the valves with walnut shells. I’ve read about this method a couple times but I can’t remember the cost. The BG treatment is one of the things you can do but this is only going to remove some of the "new carbon" that has built up. It’s not going to remove the "older carbon" that’s been baked onto the valves for some time.

Here is some additional info about the walnut shell method

The intake manifold is removed and the engine is rotated so that the valve to be cleaned is closed, then the back of the valve and the intake port is blasted with air and ground walnut shells. The walnut shells are harder than the carbon deposit, but softer than the steel valves and aluminum head, so the result is sparkely clean valves and intake ports. The ground walnut shells and carbon are removed at the same time as the valves are blasted, with a vacuum attachment on the shell blaster.


Seafoam will help to an extent, it’s cheap & easy like shickadance said, but I remember a thread on vortex where they removed the valves from the head & let them soak for hrs in seafoam & then had to use tiny picks/brushes to further remove the carbon build up.

edit: for those of you who have not seen these, here are some good pics from
"Redline Speed Worx: Cylinder Head Carbon Build Up Sea Foam Service Limitations"
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ce-Limitations

[groundround]

^ yeh they are serious regarding blasting the valves with walnut shells. I’ve read about this method a couple times but I can’t remember the cost. The BG treatment is one of the things you can do but this is only going to remove some of the "new carbon" that has built up. It’s not going to remove the "older carbon" that’s been baked onto the valves for some time.

Here is some additional info about the walnut shell method

The intake manifold is removed and the engine is rotated so that the valve to be cleaned is closed, then the back of the valve and the intake port is blasted with air and ground walnut shells. The walnut shells are harder than the carbon deposit, but softer than the steel valves and aluminum head, so the result is sparkely clean valves and intake ports. The ground walnut shells and carbon are removed at the same time as the valves are blasted, with a vacuum attachment on the shell blaster.


Seafoam will help to an extent, it’s cheap & easy like shickadance said, but I remember a thread on vortex where they removed the valves from the head & let them soak for hrs in seafoam & then had to use tiny picks/brushes to further remove the carbon build up.

edit: for those of you who have not seen these, here are some good pics from
"Redline Speed Worx: Cylinder Head Carbon Build Up Sea Foam Service Limitations"
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ce-Limitations

Thanks, I am gonna have to read up on this. I was also contemplating on having my head removed and just cleaned that way, and idea on the cost of that?

[DRAKLORE]

Using ground walnut shells is reccomended by every major automotive manufacturer out there, for when it comes to carbon build up. while i was fixing cars for ford we would use the walnut shel method every couple of weeks on the taurus' motors, because those alng with the Focus motors would have bad carbon buildup at around 120K miles. some of the taurus motors intake manifold flappers would fail, and part of the EGR system would CLOG with gunk!!!
so yeah walnuts FTW

[groundround]

Using ground walnut shells is reccomended by every major automotive manufacturer out there, for when it comes to carbon build up. while i was fixing cars for ford we would use the walnut shel method every couple of weeks on the taurus' motors, because those alng with the Focus motors would have bad carbon buildup at around 120K miles. some of the taurus motors intake manifold flappers would fail, and part of the EGR system would CLOG with gunk!!!
so yeah walnuts FTW

I want to get this done with the walnut shells. How can I find a place near me (boston) that uses this method? I just searched google and could not find anything

[mr shickadance]

are you serious? and whats the cost for something like that if your not fooling around. I am getting a ton of misfires due to carbon build up I believe and did the seafoam and do not think it helped to much. I am thinking the BG treatment might be a little better.

did you replace your sparkplugs after you did the seafoam?

[groundround]

did you replace your sparkplugs after you did the seafoam?

yes 2 times, got an oil change to.

[mr shickadance]

are you sure its cylinder misfire due to carbon buildup? im not ruling that out, but our faulty coil packs have given owners a lot of headaches and the main symptom is misfires

just for a 2007 2.0 it seems rough to be having misfires


i also want to point out that people who fill up with 91 are more likely to have issues then people with 93 available....the higher the octane, the better the chances are you are low on carbon

[groundround]

are you sure its cylinder misfire due to carbon buildup? im not ruling that out, but our faulty coil packs have given owners a lot of headaches and the main symptom is misfires

just for a 2007 2.0 it seems rough to be having misfires


i also want to point out that people who fill up with 91 are more likely to have issues then people with 93 available....the higher the octane, the better the chances are you are low on carbon

only use 93 stageII, just have the coil packs replaced through the recall

[DRAKLORE]

^^^SOO much truth in this!!! i know most dealerships should have access to a Blaster, hell even places that "sand blast" have switched to walnut shells because its cheaper and easier... try your local sand-blasting shops... just make sure they are not using sand lol

[groundround]

and I am coming up on 110K so I am sure there is a good amount of carbon build up haha