Stasis deals?

[striver8155]

I'm thinking of pulling the trigger on the stasis catback in the upcoming week and I was wondering if anyone knows of any deals on it right now? $1500 is a little pricy.

[ieatfishburitos]

I don't think I've ever seen the words Stasis and deals in the same sentence before.

[jfunkey]

I don't think I've ever seen the words Stasis and deals in the same sentence before.

aaaahahaha no kidding. There is lots better out ther for less. FI better price and performance buiild.

[striver8155]

I took a look at jhm's website and it looks like it was the same price as stasis for the b7. Am I wrong?

[ZEUSROTTY]

You could just buy some downpipes, Or Piggies, then have a custom shop do a full exhaust for you for that kind of money... That is what I did and it sounds sick... I have vids done so I will post them up tonight.

[beemercer]

I don't think I've ever seen the words Stasis and deals in the same sentence before.

[Sharkfin]

I would wait for a used one in the classifieds if you are set of the Stasis one.

[striver8155]

I'm pretty set on the stasis unless you guys can recommend another. I want something that's loud, but still has the European muscle sound.

[snopyro]

Are the Stasis B7 quad tips removable or are they welded onto the muffler? I am asking to know if the Stasis' B6 S4's single exhaust tip could be replaced (bolt on/off) with the B7's quad tips?

[striver8155]

another question, whats the resale like on my stock exhaust?

[Sharkfin]

there isn't one...

[Whatset]

aaaahahaha no kidding. There is lots better out ther for less. FI better price and performance buiild.

IDK - can you provide some facts to back this statement up?

As far as I know they are both 2.5 inch pipe, both have an X pipe type design, both are non-rez and both are around $1400 for a B7. When I compare the designs they are all but identical, the only difference I see is the FI has more bends, that cant be good for power.

[SoCalS4Avant]

Are the Stasis B7 quad tips removable or are they welded onto the muffler? I am asking to know if the Stasis' B6 S4's single exhaust tip could be replaced (bolt on/off) with the B7's quad tips?

If you're going to go that way, just by the B7 exhaust. You have to cut the valence anyway - as the B6 S4 rear valence isn't an individual piece. Otherwise, buy the B6 S4 cat. I've got it. I love it.

[beemercer]

IDK - can you provide some facts to back this statement up?

As far as I know they are both 2.5 inch pipe, both have an X pipe type design, both are non-rez and both are around $1400 for a B7. When I compare the designs they are all but identical, the only difference I see is the FI has more bends, that cant be good for power.

Stasis


Fast Intentions


Does the Stasis really have an X-pipe? If it does it looks like its a pretty poor design. Also they have the same number of bends just placed differently, the stasis is straight prior to the crossover and the FI is straight after the crossover until the muffler turnout.

[Whatset]

I know jfunky is always so good with the facts. I am thinking about going to the JHM tune and when he made the statement it got me thinking about the FI as well. So I wanted his facts to compare the two from a HP perspective

You are correct about the bends, but it does look like the Stasis has more sweeping lines and the FI has more abrupt ones. That is what I noticed. What looks poor about the xpipe design to you?

[beemercer]

^The picture isn't great, if someone can get a better one I can give a better analysis
-Placement is too far back by about a foot
-Angle of intersection is too low to cause direct stream mixing
-The area open to crossover appears rather small (from the exhaust hanger back to the bends?), this will prevent pressure diffusion mixing
-30 degree bend immediately after the crossover

Basically the FI crossover is placed correctly relative to the first collector in the exhaust stream, and is designed to force more stream mixing which increases exhaust scavenging.

[koolade9]

tomato tamatoh...they're practically identical in design...major diff is the FI offers a resonated version and custom adaption for various downpipes...

[Whatset]

Cool, thanks beemercer!

Any idea on claimed HP increase for the FI?

[beemercer]

Placement of the crossover is not tomato-tamatoh. It's just like headers, you tune it right and it's more than a pile of pipes.

[koolade9]

Placement of the crossover is not tomato-tamatoh. It's just like headers, you tune it right and it's more than a pile of pipes.

You are entitled to your opinion...I do not agree with you, but I will fight to the death for your right to say it

Any idea on claimed HP increase for the FI

vs. the stasis.

this.

[beemercer]

You are entitled to your opinion...I do not agree with you, but I will fight to the death for your right to say it

So you don't believe in tuned headers? Race teams spend absurd amounts of time perfecting their exhaust tuning. It's not like it's a black art, there is a science to placement, tube diameters, tube lengths. Explain why high rpm motors use short primary length headers with short collectors, and other headers, like the JHM S4 longtubes, use very long primaries and longer collectors. Is it a coincidence that the JHM Headers produce peak torque 1000RPM earlier? No.

Even more important, especially with a cross-plane V8 versus a flat-plane V8, is secondary length. Proper design here is key to scavenging in your specific RPM bandwidth. If you push it out to far you shift the scavenging bandwidth lower and lower. These motors make power from 3000RPM-6300RPM, with headers that shifts down to 2000RPM-6300RPM, a full foot of extra length will roughly halve your peak power range and push you out of this range.

How much power is it worth, who knows, maybe none, but for me that doesn't mean I'd settle for something less well designed. My X-pipe was hand welded and bent on a CC Mandrel bender, to get it perfect it took over 10 hours of trial, was it worth it? Hard to tell directly, but I know I have the best design for any fully catless exhaust.

[koolade9]

So you don't believe in tuned headers? Race teams spend absurd amounts of time perfecting their exhaust tuning. It's not like it's a black art, there is a science to placement, tube diameters, tube lengths. Explain why high rpm motors use short primary length headers with short collectors, and other headers, like the JHM S4 longtubes, use very long primaries and longer collectors. Is it a coincidence that the JHM Headers produce peak torque 1000RPM earlier? No.

Even more important, especially with a cross-plane V8 versus a flat-plane V8, is secondary length. Proper design here is key to scavenging in your specific RPM bandwidth. If you push it out to far you shift the scavenging bandwidth lower and lower. These motors make power from 3000RPM-6300RPM, with headers that shifts down to 2000RPM-6300RPM, a full foot of extra length will roughly halve your peak power range and push you out of this range.

We weren't talking about headers...I agree with the above.

How much power is it worth, who knows, maybe none, but for me that doesn't mean I'd settle for something less well designed. My X-pipe was hand welded and bent on a CC Mandrel bender, to get it perfect it took over 10 hours of trial, was it worth it? Hard to tell directly, but I know I have the best design for any fully catless exhaust.

This part pertains to our convo on catback design ...and IMO, there's a negligable difference between the two designs for our application. Sound will most likely be the variation between the two...

[striver8155]

Well even after all the excellent info here, still extremely undecided on Stasis or FI....

[Mike@PureMS]

If you're interested in an AWE system let me know.. I'd skip the Stasis exhaust. Have personally seen 2 systems cracked, one with less than 6k miles on it.

[SoCalS4Avant]

^ 5k miles. No cracks. . I can name many more that are happy with their setups, without issues with MANY MANY more miles than that.

My opinion OP: If you don't go with STaSIS, DO go with FI. It's a sweet setup. Had I not picked up my setup when I did, I would have been lined up getting an FI.

[beemercer]

We weren't talking about headers...I agree with the above.

This part pertains to our convo on catback design ...and IMO, there's a negligable difference between the two designs for our application. Sound will most likely be the variation between the two...

Secondary length does not deal with the headers, and will definitely effect the range of maximum exhaust scavenging.

[Whatset]

Get your precats removed then find a Good strong 2.5 cat back it could be from anyone. The one main thing the cat back needs is a X but in some cases you can get away with a H.

So this is from a different thread, but what up jfunk? - I asked you to provide some facts to back up your statement in this tread -beemercer did provide some imput but nada from you. Then I see this. You just bashin STaSIS then? These must both be opinion pieces as opposed to your more standard fact-based approach.

I guess what you ment to say is

Get your precats removed then find a Good strong 2.5 cat back it could be from anyone but STaSIS. The one main thing the cat back needs is a X but in some cases you can get away with an inferior design as long as it isn't STaSIS.

I'm calling total bullshit on you guy. Present the facts. And don't try to 'bro' me or my character down, this isn't about me - its about the facts.

[koolade9]

Secondary length does not deal with the headers, and will definitely effect the range of maximum exhaust scavenging.

And I agree in theory, the placement of the 'X' would simply change the resonant frequency at which maximum scavenging occurs...moving it's peak efficiency to a different point in the rpm band. I'm just guessing at this point, but one would presume that the further that 'X' is away from the engine, the longer the path length ~ lower the frequency ~ shifting of the powerband to a lower rpm range... This is all in relation to 1/4 waves, but higher frequencies and harmonics will also be affected by the 'X' (thinking out loud at this point). Then again, without calculating the effective wavelength at each end of the power band, one can't make an informed decision on where the 'X' should actually be.

As a quick stab at it:

wavelength = c/freq

I'm using c = 343m/s as the speed of sound. I'd need some help from you guys to try and calculate the actual exhaust pulse speed...piston velocity in relation to rpm perhaps?

1500rpm = 25rps = 12 exhaust pulses/sec ~ 12hz ... (343m/sec)/12hz = 28.58m ~ 7.14m 1/4 wave.
7200rpm = 120rps = 60 exhaust pulses/sec ~ 60hz ... (343m/sec)/60hz = 5.72m ~ 1.43m 1/4 wave.

Our cars are roughtly 4.5m long...I think it's safe to say the total exhaust length from mid-engine to tip is 4m to simplify calculation. I would infer based on the above that 1.43m down the exhaust path, maximum scavenging would occur. This is with the big assumption that c = the speed of sound. We know this is wrong in relation to exhaust pulse speed. I'm going to try and figure that out now.

[SoCalS4Avant]

If you're interested in an AWE system let me know.. I'd skip the Stasis exhaust. Have personally seen 2 systems cracked, one with less than 6k miles on it.

I also wanted to point out the fact that (while unconfirmed by the retailers) the STaSIS, AWE, and Thermal R&D catback for the B6 S4 are the exact same exhaust. They're sourced from the same manufacturer. It's kinda hard to say one system is better than the other, when they're the same for all intents and purposes, and while this speaks directly for the B6, we can examine the B7 system as well.

Take a look at the products:

My STaSIS:

(I'm happy to provide more pics)

Thermal R&D (courtesty E-Code):


AWE (courtesty AWE):

[beemercer]

^If you have a chance could you get a shot of the crossover section on your exhaust? It should be the area between the two resonators.

[SoCalS4Avant]

They don't truly cross over. You can see a little bit in the first pic. I'll see about finding a little better pic to show.

[beemercer]

And I agree in theory, the placement of the 'X' would simply change the resonant frequency at which maximum scavenging occurs...moving it's peak efficiency to a different point in the rpm band. I'm just guessing at this point, but one would presume that the further that 'X' is away from the engine, the longer the path length ~ lower the frequency ~ shifting of the powerband to a lower rpm range... This is all in relation to 1/4 waves, but higher frequencies and harmonics will also be affected by the 'X' (thinking out loud at this point). Then again, without calculating the effective wavelength at each end of the power band, one can't make an informed decision on where the 'X' should actually be.

As a quick stab at it:

wavelength = c/freq

I'm using c = 343m/s as the speed of sound. I'd need some help from you guys to try and calculate the actual exhaust pulse speed...piston velocity in relation to rpm perhaps?

1500rpm = 25rps = 12 exhaust pulses/sec ~ 12hz ... (343m/sec)/12hz = 28.58m ~ 7.14m 1/4 wave.
7200rpm = 120rps = 60 exhaust pulses/sec ~ 60hz ... (343m/sec)/60hz = 5.72m ~ 1.43m 1/4 wave.

Our cars are roughtly 4.5m long...I think it's safe to say the total exhaust length from mid-engine to tip is 4m to simplify calculation. I would infer based on the above that 1.43m down the exhaust path, maximum scavenging would occur. This is with the big assumption that c = the speed of sound. We know this is wrong in relation to exhaust pulse speed. I'm going to try and figure that out now.

Sounds good in theory. My comments are based on empirical tests of exhaust design (i.e. an engine dyno with varying exhaust setups). The ideal range of secondary length is well under 1m. If you read about exhaust science with domestic cars they'll quote up to 40HP losses from improper design of even single components in the exhaust system (for instance using a perf core muffler and not accounting for the tube length versus using a chambered muffler). To get the best out of your exhaust for a Cross-Plane V8 you need to get every component right, and truthfully the headers aren't necessarily the most important piece, they are all equal.

And for reference the intake port velocity of a race motor is roughly around 100ft/s, but that may not necessarily be the case in the exhaust.

[beemercer]

They don't truly cross over. You can see a little bit in the first pic. I'll see about finding a little better pic to show.

I appreciate it, thanks.

[ngng]

aaaahahaha no kidding. There is lots better out ther for less. FI better price and performance buiild.

better price? FI costs the same, if not more than stasis. better performance build? now you're just talking out of your ass. both are great quality.

[jfunkey]

So this is from a different thread, but what up jfunk? - I asked you to provide some facts to back up your statement in this tread -beemercer did provide some imput but nada from you. Then I see this. You just bashin STaSIS then? These must both be opinion pieces as opposed to your more standard fact-based approach.

I guess what you ment to say is


I'm calling total bullshit on you guy. Present the facts. And don't try to 'bro' me or my character down, this isn't about me - its about the facts.

Bro WOW make up stuff much?? Do your feet hurt from jumping to conslusions.. you might need some help with that.

AS I REMEMBER there was the first exhausts StaSiS put out with NO X no H no nothing. SO THOSE ARE THE FACTS. Im calling B.S on the guy who is making stuff up that I didn't say. Did you see the picture posted with NO X or H. where is your appoliogy? THis is what I was speaking on.

From my OPINION Im talking about a product I didn't like. There are like 5 sets sold and I never liked the sound and I remember that it came WITHOUT A X or H. So before you throw a GotYA party calm down. This isn't the governmanet here no conspircy. Just my opinuion

As for the rest. I don't feel anyone should support a company that will sell you parts you already have in your car and charge you twice what they cost. The B7 S4 and the diff is what Im refering to. I don't feel they make a solid parts for a good price. Im sure there are some but not enough to sway my thoughts.

SO THOSE ARE THE JFUNKEY FACTS YOUR GOING TO HAVE TO TRY FINDING ANOTHER REASON TO HATE ME FOR BEING SOO GOOD LOOKING

IDK - can you provide some facts to back this statement up?

As far as I know they are both 2.5 inch pipe, both have an X pipe type design, both are non-rez and both are around $1400 for a B7. When I compare the designs they are all but identical, the only difference I see is the FI has more bends, that cant be good for power.

NO X NO H. So you know wrong on this one. You might be able to order them now with it though. So with out the X its better

So still there are better for less. didn't meen to say FI was less there are better out there for less and FI is better build and performance *with the X* for the money

[jfunkey]

I know jfunky is always so good with the facts. I am thinking about going to the JHM tune and when he made the statement it got me thinking about the FI as well. So I wanted his facts to compare the two from a HP perspective

You are correct about the bends, but it does look like the Stasis has more sweeping lines and the FI has more abrupt ones. That is what I noticed. What looks poor about the xpipe design to you?

So can your boy get an apoligy now?

[Matt@EuropaParts]

OP, if you're interested, drop me an email and we might be able to work something out.

[koolade9]

So can your boy get an apoligy now?

Actually, the B7 stasis exhaust does have an X-pipe... The placement of the crossover is what beemercer and I were discussing above.

Referring to the Stasis/AWE/Thermal exhaust above...stasis has only sold it to a handfull of people, and all of them have had zero problems...Also, IIRC Stasis developed and sold their B7 S4 exhaust long before they started selling a setup for the B6 S4. They are two completely different systems...

If you're interested in an AWE system let me know.. I'd skip the Stasis exhaust. Have personally seen 2 systems cracked, one with less than 6k miles on it.

I think I know both guys you're talking about. I'll pm your about an AWE RS4 setup soon

And for reference the intake port velocity of a race motor is roughly around 100ft/s, but that may not necessarily be the case in the exhaust.

Yeah, I pretty much hit a wall here, as I'm now trying to calculate the speed of a fluid/gas, and now volume comes into play. With dimensions of the exhaust port on the head & exh manifold, we could probably get close...for headers, it'll obviously be different. That's good info about the <1m though. If I ever get a wild hair up my ass, I'd like to read up a little more on it, as I pretty sure there's a couple more variables I'm missing.

[SoCalS4Avant]

Referring to the Stasis/AWE/Thermal exhaust above...stasis has only sold it to a handfull of people, and all of them have had zero problems...Also, IIRC Stasis developed and sold their B7 S4 exhaust long before they started selling a setup for the B6 S4. They are two completely different systems...

Very true. I'm one of those handful. I have one of the original five made. I've had zero problems! lol That said, they are available for purchase, so other B6'ers should feel free to enjoy what I get to every day. Again, very true that the B7 has been around much longer than the B6. Two very different systems - as mine has resonators, the B7, does not.

[Whatset]

Bro WOW make up stuff much?? Do your feet hurt from jumping to conslusions.. you might need some help with that.

AS I REMEMBER there was the first exhausts StaSiS put out with NO X no H no nothing. SO THOSE ARE THE FACTS. Im calling B.S on the guy who is making stuff up that I didn't say. Did you see the picture posted with NO X or H. where is your appoliogy? THis is what I was speaking on.

From my OPINION Im talking about a product I didn't like. There are like 5 sets sold and I never liked the sound and I remember that it came WITHOUT A X or H. So before you throw a GotYA party calm down. This isn't the governmanet here no conspircy. Just my opinuion

As for the rest. I don't feel anyone should support a company that will sell you parts you already have in your car and charge you twice what they cost. The B7 S4 and the diff is what Im refering to. I don't feel they make a solid parts for a good price. Im sure there are some but not enough to sway my thoughts.

SO THOSE ARE THE JFUNKEY FACTS YOUR GOING TO HAVE TO TRY FINDING ANOTHER REASON TO HATE ME FOR BEING SOO GOOD LOOKING

NO X NO H. So you know wrong on this one. You might be able to order them now with it though. So with out the X its better

So still there are better for less. didn't meen to say FI was less there are better out there for less and FI is better build and performance *with the X* for the money

So you limited your scope to one particular applicaton? I guess in that case you are correct - but your statements were not limited, you swept away all the offerings completly based one a limited scope. Yes i guess I'll chaulk up the fact, but it does not realte to the whole story you keep presenting.

As far as opinion goes - you hide behind the facts first quip until it no longer suits your needs. Nice play - it must be cool to be able to switch gears at will. I'm not the self proclaimed facts first guy, you are.

So you base your exhaust answer on the torsen - that is uninspiring.

There is not hate here- you are twisting the truth to suit your own agenda. Oh, and I'm sorry you got caught with your mouth in the cookie jar.