Tuned A4 vs S4

[cyniclaus]

I'm looking to get back in an Audi (miss the comfort of my S6plus). I currently drive an EVO X GSR.

I'm willing to spend around $30~35k...would I get the best bang for my buck with a stock CPO B7/B6 S4 or getting a B7 A4 and getting an aftermarket package such as the one offered by Stasis?

Keeping decent reliability & refinement is important and I'm looking for a great street car, not a weekend track monster. I mention Stasis because they have packages that can be installed all at once and are designed holistically...I don't have the time to research a million components and have my car in the shop all the time.

Yes, I know B5s are great (my buddy had a B5 RS4), but they are old cars and prone to frequent and expensive repairs. A new S4 or a used RS4 would be exactly my cup of tea, but I just bought a home and can't spend $45~50k on a car right now, so that's why I'm looking at B7s.

BTW, I don't care at all about looks, just performance & comfort. The main things that draw me towards the S4 are the shifter (I refuse to drive auto) and the Recaros.

Any advice is appreciated

[a4dc89]

I would go for a used s4. Honestly the 2.0t engine is very expensive to get a whole lot of power out of and it has some major reliability and longevity issues (cam failure, fuel pump, carbon build up)

[audimeister]

^^ In your price range, and lack of inclination for fiddling with your car, it's a no-brainer: S4. Only downside is gas mileage.

[megafreakindeth]

for 30-35k you can get a hell of an s4 dude. by b7 do you mean b8? those are the newest ones and they might be 30k but a b7? nooo. for that kinda cash you can get an s4 and a supercharger.

but ifyou just want a car, and no tuning crazyness then you have to get the tried and true v8. its reliable(when properlly serviced) and pretty quick. chips and intakes dont do much so you needent be tempted with those, just replace the front suspension with the denisty line kit and put some new shocks in and youre good to go.

[RVT]

S4... The 2.0 will leave you feeling you missed out on an awful lot of V8 fun....

Another thing to keep in mind is that you are coming out a far better 2.0L turbo engine. Having owned several Mitsus, I can tell you the Mitsu engine dances circles around the Audi design in every aspect except gas mileage. Upgrade costs between the Mitsu and Audi platform are are easily double for the same power output (only the Mitsu keeps on running without being inundated with CELs!)

[FLYINGLEGGS]

I was in a similar situation. Same price range, didn't want to hunt down components, do a lot of research, etc..
I went with a 2007 S-Line Quattro 6spd. Looks practically identical to the S4. The only thing I would like are the upgraded seats as you mentioned. I had APR put a stage 3 kit with all the trimmings (FMIC pending) and a clutch. I have had no reliability issues. The kit has more power than the V8 and I get mid 20's city/low 30's hwy mpg. I ended up spending low 30's. I will hit about 35k with wheels and FMIC. I looked at the S4 very hard. Just didn't make since. Less power and worse mpg. Plus forced induction is always more fun!
Good luck with your decisions. Feel free to PM me if you have any more detailed questions.

[CoDRoX]

for 30-35k you can get a hell of an s4 dude. by b7 do you mean b8? those are the newest ones and they might be 30k but a b7? nooo. for that kinda cash you can get an s4 and a supercharger.

but ifyou just want a car, and no tuning crazyness then you have to get the tried and true v8. its reliable(when properlly serviced) and pretty quick. chips and intakes dont do much so you needent be tempted with those, just replace the front suspension with the denisty line kit and put some new shocks in and youre good to go.

Yes, and by S4 he means M3

OP, I vote for A4. You can get similar better performance as an S4 with better mpg and lower insurance plus you might be able to put some cash aside for future maintenance/ buying extended warranty

[audidrver]

7A(4)TM

[Slovak84]

I would go with a 07-08 A4. The B7 S4 was in a class of its own because as you know it was designed to be a Faster more "sporty" A4 but gets smoked by everything it was designed to compete against. You should be able to get a 07 A4 for around 24-27k with good mileage and spend 10K on upgrades and your done! well thats my 2cents... Im pretty sure others will agree/disagree

[colt45]

get a B7 A4 S-Line TI. you can find those in the low 20's. then put a turbo kit on it and you will have S4 power and A4 mileage.

[Ur-Quattro]

It's tough to say, seems about 50/50 so far.....I'd be inclined to side with the S Line 6sp B7 people, for 2 reasons. 1. I wish I would've been a bit more picky to find one, and 2. The longevity of that car is gonna be much better if you consider future gas prices.

Even with a B7 S4, you'd probably not have enough left over from $35k to tune with. I think you would scratch the modding itch if you bought a solid B7 A4 and played with $10-15k, as it says you'd like to. Stasis is a great company by the way, I got their Touring suspension (Koni shocks/springs) and its all warrantied - and its funny, just last weekend I had a backroad drive where I kept up with a modded B6 S4 merely because I could handle turns just as fast.

Hope this helps you decide, OP.

[rnp614]

Answer to this dilemma is to just get a 2007-2008 A4 with Titanium edition (to grasp some of the specialness you're not getting from an S4 purchase) and just get a turbo kit/clutch from AWE (i say this because with that company you can buy all your parts. Boost gauge, pedals, turbo kit, intercooler, clutch all from one source....and then add the suspension solution of your choice--you'd have to with an S4 as well. After all of this you'll have a unique car with serious get-up and go.

[freeflow]

Answer to this dilemma is to just get a 2007-2008 A4 with Titanium edition (to grasp some of the specialness you're not getting from an S4 purchase) and just get a turbo kit/clutch from AWE (i say this because with that company you can buy all your parts. Boost gauge, pedals, turbo kit, intercooler, clutch all from one source....and then add the suspension solution of your choice--you'd have to with an S4 as well. After all of this you'll have a unique car with serious get-up and go.

exactly. Plus S4 power with A4 milage... and you can change out the shifter/pedals and buy recaros with the money left... lots of modding options for our B7s you wont get bored

[Nail Nutter]

I would go for a used s4. Honestly the 2.0t engine is very expensive to get a whole lot of power out of and it has some major reliability and longevity issues (cam failure, fuel pump, carbon build up)

Keep in mind, any of the direct injected Audi engines will have the carbon buildup issue.

[cyniclaus]

Thanks everyone who commented thus far! Most people seem to recommend the A4, but that is to be expected since I posted in the A4 forum . Anyway, I did this knowingly since the S4 pretty much "is what it is", but the A4 "is what you make of it", and you guys are the experts on that.


I know what I'd be getting with the V-8 since I used to own a Euro-only S6plus, which had the prototype for that engine. There are definitely times with my Evo that I miss that instant neck-snapping torque under my right foot, but it's just something you work around, learn to be more conscious of RPMs and whatnot.


I guess my primary concerns are cost-effectiveness and reliability, but
.
posts like this

2.0t engine is very expensive to get a whole lot of power out of and it has some major reliability and longevity issues (cam failure, fuel pump, carbon build up)

conflict with ones like this

I had APR put a stage 3 kit with all the trimmings (FMIC pending) and a clutch. I have had no reliability issues. The kit has more power than the V8

Are reliability issues that bad or not? How bad is the "carbon buildup" issue, and what can be done about it? *Edit* Nevermind, I read the sticky...looks like it just adds to maintenance time & costs.

I suppose reliability on aftermarket stuff depends on maintenance and the quality of the parts/install...I would imagine that certain tuners have a better rep than others when it comes to this. I am not one to go for the highest dyno numbers for the cheapest price, only to pay for it later with an engine rebuild

just get a 2007-2008 A4 with Titanium edition...and just get a turbo kit/clutch from AWE ....and then add the suspension solution of your choice

Kind of like this guy did? You guys must know this car...I wonder what he did to claim 340 ft-lbs Man, I do love that blacked out Titanium look.
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...TAFSRCHUSDTEXT

[RVT]

Another thred read before investing in an A4
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...-about-the-car

V

[rnp614]

I think with the B7 line its very much up to luck. Some cars run great, others have issues. If you're buying used, which you would be, its just a matter of finding out its history. Mine in 3 years has been excellent and I would not hesitate to throw on a stage 3 kit. The kits from the big companies are extremely thorough in their design/development (HENCE THE COST!!!) and they will attest that they have the same reliability as the unmodded engine as long as you use their safe tunes and dont try to go crazy with custom heads/tune/etc. You have to pay to play especially if you want to do it safely. I agree with you wholeheartedly on the fact that the quality of the kit and the install is the make or break when considering the tuned A4 solution. The carb buildup phenomenon is just something any DI engine has to face. Nothing you can do but deal with it every few years.

[JRMSLINEA4]

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...TAFSRCHUSDTEXT

Way too much money for that car.
I paid $29k for my car over a year ago which is exactly the same and had 30k on it but my car is CPO.

[rnp614]

Way too much money for that car.
I paid $29k for my car over a year ago which is exactly the same and had 30k on it but my car is CPO.

Car is definitely not at a great price but if you want titanium (to the OP) expect to pay for it. Private parties and dealers generally know what they have and price it accordingly because it IS such an attractive package to have.

[vdubjetta02]

B8 S4!!! all the way..... the 3.0t is a fantastic engine and the interior is quite nice.... buy one of those and call it a day!

[JRMSLINEA4]

B8 S4!!! all the way..... the 3.0t is a fantastic engine and the interior is quite nice.... buy one of those and call it a day!

Yep.

[staticuxo]

I just went from an APR stage 2 B7 A4 to a B7 S4.. and I do not regret the switch one bit.

The 4.2L has a much broader power band; it never stops pulling. Not only that, it sounds amazing and the Recaro seats are perfect. I would also say the 4.2L v8 has a lot less problems than the 2.0L.

[cyniclaus]

I just went from an APR stage 2 B7 A4 to a B7 S4.. and I do not regret the switch one bit.

The 4.2L has a much broader power band; it never stops pulling. Not only that, it sounds amazing and the Recaro seats are perfect. I would also say the 4.2L v8 has a lot less problems than the 2.0L.

Nice to hear from someone who's owned both...thanks

B8 S4!!! all the way..... the 3.0t is a fantastic engine and the interior is quite nice.... buy one of those and call it a day!

I agree 100%. Show me where I can get one with the LSD and B&O for $40k or less and we are done

I will get one eventually for sure; just need to wait a couple of years and go CPO...but I need something to tide me over until then

[rnp614]

I just went from an APR stage 2 B7 A4 to a B7 S4.. and I do not regret the switch one bit.

The 4.2L has a much broader power band; it never stops pulling. Not only that, it sounds amazing and the Recaro seats are perfect. I would also say the 4.2L v8 has a lot less problems than the 2.0L.

Id agree on the difference between Stage 2 and the S4, but I think it gets far blurrier when you compare stage 3 to the S4. The sense of speed at high revs will definitely be more in the FI car at the cost of low rev power loss due to spool up time. Also, that S4 has its own set of maintenance costs. Unless you get a lemon 2.0T you wont have all that much to worry about if you have a late revision car. The seats, however, are far better in the S4.

[freeflow]

OP: this should be out within the year for our cars... just imagine that power with traction from quattro instead of fwd. show me a blown S4 that could keep up.

[rnp614]

That'd be nice. No doubt about it.

[FLYINGLEGGS]

Another thred read before investing in an A4
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...-about-the-car

V

RVT,
Do yourself a favor. By a new car! I could not imagine driving a car that I hated that much. It must be miserable for you to drive it everyday.

[audib7maniac]

RVT,
Do yourself a favor. By a new car! I could not imagine driving a car that I hated that much. It must be miserable for you to drive it everyday.

X2. If you hate your car so much sell it to the OP for cheap and buy something that will suit you. Say a Honda Civic.

[Hyphy]

Kind of like this guy did? You guys must know this car...I wonder what he did to claim 340 ft-lbs Man, I do love that blacked out Titanium look.
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...TAFSRCHUSDTEXT

Careful, you don't know what that previous owner did to that car. That could could be a big ditch for you. He def. has either springs or coils, intake (obv), exhaust, possible chip (or did have) - check that cam and follower

[FLYINGLEGGS]

Any decisions made?

[Sharkfin]

If you have that much, just get a B7 S4 for 25-30k.

[MCT9891]

get a B7 A4 S-Line TI. you can find those in the low 20's. then put a turbo kit on it and you will have S4 power and A4 mileage.

i disagree with everyone else, and agree with this guy...
why get a v8 with 340 crank, when you can spend less money
on a bt getting almost that power at all 4 wheels, while still maintaining reliability.

[RedS-line]

A4 mod it to stage 2+. if you still need more power buy a K04. K04 = S4 power with less weight, less gas, and earlier torque.

[Auditude2.0T]

I owned a Stage 3 2.0T with the GT2871R Turbo. Now i have a B6 S4 V8 with bolt ons. The S4 is not only faster in a straight line but better in every other aspect of driving. It handles better, sounds better, looks better, pulls harder, no turbo lag, better on gas(big turbo i got 13mpg), Recaros blow away the A4 seats, RNSE is awesome, and the car just all around feels more expensive. The S4 feels more like an RS4 than the A4 feels like an S4. Trust me go S4.. And to the above statement, find me one Big Turbo A4 thats running 340whp without putting at least 20k into the car... I have 3k in bolt ons on the S4 and i'll leave my old car for dead espcially upper gears... If i put 20k in my S4 id have a built motor and JHM Twin Turbo Kit with 600WHP+

[nnnick]

My Stage 2 A4 is for sale...I'm looking to buy an S4, probably a B6...If you can afford the increase in insurance and maintenance, I'd say go for the S4.

[cyniclaus]

I test drove a B6 S4 a couple of days ago. It was a better car than I was expecting based on my experience with my old s6plus with basically the same engine. Only negatives were the too-high gearing in final gear and the clutch...has to have the longest throw of anything I've driven. I forgot how much fun those torquey V-8s are...mash the pedal and it's an instant kick in the rear from almost any RPM. I also love the sleeper quality.

I still have to try a B7 A4; maybe this weekend.

My local Saab dealer is pushing hard to get me in a new '09 9-3 Aero XWD (2.8 V6T). It's one of the last ones with 6MT in the country and they won't offer the V6 anymore next year. The thing has an MSRP of $44k and I can get it for just over $30k. Problem is, compared to the Audis or a Bimmer, the Saab has very light steering, long sloppy throws on the 6MT, and just doesn't feel as connected to the road. The interior appointments and build quality on the 7-year-old S4 seemed better than on the new Saab. Then again, with only $3k spent on a reflash, new plugs & injectors and stock turbo mods, the Saab can hit 390hp/425tq, so I guess it's about priorities.

If i put 20k in my S4 id have a built motor and JHM Twin Turbo Kit with 600WHP+

Aw, that's just nuts! Wouldn't do that to my DD though...at least not until we see how the engine and drivetrain hold up over time to more than double the stock power.

[tankdeer]

S4 - no question.

[ggg20t]

All i can say is this: I have driven both, a tuned APR stage 2 2.0t a4 and my friends b6 S4. If you have the means, you can definitely get an a4 to be as quick as an s4, but there is really no comparison here. I've been on the forum for a little while now, and i think there are too many problems with the 2.0t, not to mention a lot of work that has to go into properly maintaining it if you do the usual chip mods, or even a something like an APR stg 3 kit. As im sure it's been mentioned in this thread, you have to check your cam follower frequently (and replace it every 10k miles) in a tuned a4, replace the diverter valve, upgrade to a better fuel pump etc.. If this car isn't going to be a daily driver, and something you can fool around with, the i would buy the a4 and mod the shit out of it because forced induction is more fun. But at the end of the day, i've decided to just buy an s4, put an exhaust, some coilovers and a few small show mods on it, and just not have to worry as much about leaking boost, blown diverter valves, destroyed cam followers, that puny diesel noise it makes, and most importantly.... all of your friends with v8's saying "ha ha you have a 4 cylinder."

:)

[ggg20t]

^ moral of the story - im selling my 2.0t and buying an s4

[tankdeer]

^ This. I don't think anybody is arguing that you can get an A4 to be as fast or faster than an S4, we all know that. But with all the problems of the 2.0T, I think the S4 is a better bet. And frankly, as fast as it can be, a highly modified car never feels quite as "refined" as a car that is fast from the factory. If you get my drift.