Stage 2+ before and after meth injection dyno results. K03s and METH FTW! 91 oct ehh

[awd2ks4]

Just got my new dyno numbers from 034motorsport Thanks to Javad and Christian,
Since i dynod my previous setup, I slapped on a few new things including new timing belt kit, vast efk, vast methanol injection, ard bipipes, gutted main cats, and added 4 degrees of timing and pulled some fuel with lemmiwinks.
This is on crappy california 91 octane gas, MTM software, JHM FMIC, Open element intake, and gutted piggies running to a 3inch mtm catback exhaust.
Previous best 283whp/330tq
New best 316whp/383tq K03s and meth FTW!
Best FATS so far 4.54

[Mattgfx]

nice numbers man.. loving that super high TQ and over 300whp

[chinareaper]

sorry maybe my english is bad, so i didnt get "why ur tq increase alot", because??

[mrpeterparker]

gutted cats + additional timing from meth

[JWatson]

I know what my next upgrade is!

[Raacerx]

this might be the highest dyno #'s from a 91 octane Stage 2+.

[mrpeterparker]

it's pretty impressive... here's Mike's car on ASP OTS Stg 3 (no meth) ... same dyno

[awd2ks4]

it's pretty impressive... here's Mike's car on ASP OTS Stg 3 (no meth) ... same dyno

how did i make more torque at redline then his stage 3? his ko4s are putting out 291 torque up top at 22psi???? and my ko3s are making 301 torque up top at 15psi somethings wrong there.

this might be the highest dyno #'s from a 91 octane Stage 2+.

yeah I think so the only one i heard making more is biturbo that did 326whp on 104 or 109oct or something.

[mrpeterparker]

look @ initial peak tq though.... also his system was more restrictive at the time IIRC

[awd2ks4]

25psi will do that lol but yeah it looks like i have more power at 4000rpm hp and tq he spools like 500rpm earlier but just seems like he should have more torque up top? why was it restrictive?

[mrpeterparker]

shrug... it's an older file...

i don't think he had any form of exhaust at the time. i could be wrong

[RolledMySTi]

Great numbers. A real torque monster.

[rouellettea4]

congrats man, i love fast ko3 cars, plans for the track this year?

[awd2ks4]

shrug... it's an older file...
i don't think he had any form of exhaust at the time. i could be wrong

Pretty sure he had ssac exhaust. Probably just a garbage asp tune lol.

Great numbers. A real torque monster.

Thanks, Yeah i was pretty suprised how much torque it made lol isnt that like stage 3 torque? definitely 3-

congrats man, i love fast ko3 cars, plans for the track this year?

Thanks I really cant wait to get on the track actually. Just got to make sometime for it. Im all setup for it too, BBK, Roll cage, vented cf hood just got to get some rotors for my 300mm rear bbk then ill be about done. Thens its some new rims maybe with a big fender pull and a nogaro paint job.

[NOTORIOUS VR]

Almost identical numbers to my run (pretty much identical parts too)! Same ECU :)

love the MTM! Smooth yet powerful...

My dyno for comparison:

[csre9]

hell yeah good numbers.
My ko3 car was also pretty strong, but those little snails wont take it forever :(

[mrpeterparker]

hmmm..... here's a scan of my stg 3 dyno with a slipping transmission @ 5600RPM.. although not a fair comparison due to diff dynos

[BlkdoutS4]

it's pretty impressive... here's Mike's car on ASP OTS Stg 3 (no meth) ... same dyno

that is a hideous graph... yikes

[Dubluv11]

what is each line for? :S its a very confusing graph really

[awd2ks4]

what is each line for? :S its a very confusing graph really

No its not unless your trying to figure out which is the afr and boost. But you can tell by the graph that my previous run the lines are all wavy and the second dyno trip the lines are all nice and smooth

[BITRBO]

how did i make more torque at redline then his stage 3? his ko4s are putting out 291 torque up top at 22psi???? and my ko3s are making 301 torque up top at 15psi somethings wrong there.


yeah I think so the only one i heard making more is biturbo that did 326whp on 104 or 109oct or something.

Great numbers man! That torque is just awesome, isn't it? Yeah, the last two runs from my latest dyno session were using 5-gal of VP109, but I also had about 2-gal of 93 oct left in the tank... So just using some online calculators (http://www.bazellracefuels.com/Calcs/OC1.htm), my final mixture should have been around 104ish. IDK how that compares to running meth w/ 91 oct, but your final mixture equivalency is probably in the low 100's as well.

Either way, great job!

[BlkdoutS4]

what is each line for? :S its a very confusing graph really

Blue is Tq, red is Hp, black is A/F, green is boost

[Nadrealista]

Wow I am stg 2+ with MTM code as well and want to get VAST meth kit..

are you running your meth controller of the boost or MAF signal?

If so what settings are you using what is the turn on point and what is the full blast psi?

What is the nozzle size and location?

Here is my boost profile:

[awd2ks4]

They are dual ko3 nozzles mounted in ard bipipes. Settings are 5psi and 11psi. I tapped the map sensor up by the ecu.

[Nadrealista]

They are dual ko3 nozzles mounted in ard bipipes. Settings are 5psi and 11psi. I tapped the map sensor up by the ecu.

hm, looking at your boost profile your full spray is on from 2500rpm all the way to the redline making you spray controller pretty much on off switch?

what is the nozzle size?

[Nadrealista]

They are dual ko3 nozzles mounted in ard bipipes. Settings are 5psi and 11psi. I tapped the map sensor up by the ecu.

hm, looking at your boost profile your full spray is on from 2500rpm all the way to the redline making you spray controller pretty much on off switch?

what is the nozzle size?

[mrpeterparker]

Wow I am stg 2+ with MTM code as well and want to get VAST meth kit..

are you running your meth controller of the boost or MAF signal?

If so what settings are you using what is the turn on point and what is the full blast psi?

What is the nozzle size and location?

Here is my boost profile:

WTF??!?!!?!?

[GramCracker]

OP, how much boost are you pushing? 25 lbs or did I read one of your posts wrong?

[awd2ks4]

OP, how much boost are you pushing? 25 lbs or did I read one of your posts wrong?

No i was talking about the stage 3 dynograph that was posted. I spike 18psi and taper to about 12-13 at redline

[sean1.8t]

but your final mixture equivalency is probably in the low 100's as well.

there is no way you can speculate on that. you don't know what mixture he's spraying. what his nozzle size is. where his nozzle location is..

all you can say is he's pump+meth. not 10x octane.

[GramCracker]

Cool. Thanks for clarifying.

That's about what I boost to, only I hold about 15. This makes me want some meth injection

[awd2ks4]

i heard you cant make 15psi at redline with k03s my peak hp is at 5500 and is at 15psi and tapers Id be amazed to see a k03 holding 15psi all the way to 7000rpm in ecux or something

[as4driver]

My car spikes at 18-20 and will hold 15psi to redline. I will soon be adding METH and a very aggressitve EPL tune. Im looking for 325 whp+. Im trying so hard to blow these ko3s but its not happening.

Sweet Numbers
Evan

[awd2ks4]

My car spikes at 18-20 and will hold 15psi to redline. I will soon be adding METH and a very aggressitve EPL tune. Im looking for 325 whp+. Im trying so hard to blow these ko3s but its not happening.

Sweet Numbers
Evan

Got any logs?

[The_Jerbel]

The meth controller isn't an on/off switch, it's a progressive increase.

[boomerro]

The meth controller isn't an on/off switch, it's a progressive increase.

depends on the system. some systems its an on/off switch. on/off switch is a hell of a lot easier to tune for. Progressive meth for boost requires tuning for all gears or you might get really high correction factors on 1st and 2nd gear because you wont see the same boost, but your timing will be just as high, thus your not getting the meth your engine needs to prevent detonation. Personally i think a meth on/off system is better for that reason. But vast seems to do well tuning their cars on a progressive system.

Please log some 1-4th gears and include correction factors and boost/requested boost curves!
Thanks!

[Raacerx]

depends on the system. some systems its an on/off switch. on/off switch is a hell of a lot easier to tune for. Progressive meth for boost requires tuning for all gears or you might get really high correction factors on 1st and 2nd gear because you wont see the same boost, but your timing will be just as high, thus your not getting the meth your engine needs to prevent detonation. Personally i think a meth on/off system is better for that reason. But vast seems to do well tuning their cars on a progressive system.

Please log some 1-4th gears and include correction factors and boost/requested boost curves!
Thanks!

Im not tuned at all for meth, and I got a 25-30whp increase on the dyno from using the meth. Im using two #4 nozzles (K04 nozzles) on my Stage 2+ setup. The progressive works quite well, and I would never use an on/off system. Drivability is a concern for a lot of S4 owners.

[Nadrealista]

The meth controller isn't an on/off switch, it's a progressive increase.

I know it isn't but it acts as one in k03 car application.

Let's take awd2ks4 example.

His controller settings are: START @ 5psi and FULL BLAST @11psi

Now let's take a look at his boost curve, he has 5 psi @ 2000 rpms and fraction of the second later he is already boosting over 11 psi @ 2500 rpms.

As a result he is spaying @ FULL BLAST from 2500 rpms all the way to the redline, now you tell me which part of that is progressive?

Essentially his controller really acts as an on/off switch, working in progressive mode only for a fraction of the second from 2000 to 2500 rpms.

I really think to set this up properly one would need to run the meth controller using the MAF signal which is linear and progressive in nature across the rpm range so you can inject x amount of meth for x grams/s of air your engine is using.



After all fuel injected is diretly proportional to the MAF readings during the WOT(open loop):
The B5 S4's Bosch Motronic ME7.1 ECU uses a mass air flow based fuel injection system. During open loop (for example, during engine warm-up and wide open throttle) operation, the MAF tells the ECU how much fuel to deliver to keep the air fuel ratio at the desired level. Generally, open loop fuel ratios are not stoichiometric, so narrow band O2 sensors can not be used for this. Thus, for proper functioning, MAF readings are critical for proper open loop behavior; there is no way for ME7.1 to detect if the fueling is off.

[The_Jerbel]

depends on the system. some systems its an on/off switch. on/off switch is a hell of a lot easier to tune for. Progressive meth for boost requires tuning for all gears or you might get really high correction factors on 1st and 2nd gear because you wont see the same boost, but your timing will be just as high, thus your not getting the meth your engine needs to prevent detonation. Personally i think a meth on/off system is better for that reason. But vast seems to do well tuning their cars on a progressive system.

Please log some 1-4th gears and include correction factors and boost/requested boost curves!
Thanks!

I was referring to the VAST kit, just FYI.

[The_Jerbel]

I've found the VAST meth kit to work best when the start spray is set to about 1/3 of the peak boost, and the max spray to be set to peak boost. You get more of a progressive effect when it's set up like that.

Your MAF idea isn't a bad one, except that meth is used to counter the effects of high cylinder pressure/high temperature, both of which rise exponentially as boost pressure increases. MAF readings are linear, but meth is needed in an exponential fashion, which corresponds better to the MAP values.