APR joining the RS4 supercharger fray

[mattlqx]

http://www.quattroworld.com/tunernew...er-for-b7-rs4/

No real details yet... Thoughts?

The first thing that springs to mind for me is "2 more weeks". ;) Just kidding guys. Thanks for throwing another option into the ring!

APR's official thread is here. Please direct all your questions and comments there!

[Sal_B7]

wow! That is pretty sweet!

[richib86]

hahahaha mrperfect... youve just opened up the 2 week bag

[ArthurPE]

that looks well engineered, the integration of the oem intake, etc.

http://www.harrop.com.au/company_pro...ackground.html

http://www.harrop.com.au/root_folder...s/lsj-sch.html

~18000 rpm to get 1.35 x Q at 8000 rpm (~5 psi boost)

[ieatfishburitos]

too bad we don't have a 2.0L 4cyl cobalt ss engine

[Brian@rotiform]

Looks like it uses a Eaton TVS. Sounds interesting

[drew]

Harrop HTV1320 supercharger. what the heck is that?

[Silver B6 S4]

Harrop HTV1320 supercharger. what the heck is that?

What is it? It's made for a 4 cylinder engine!

[drew]

i thought you guys were joking but checked the link....LMAO

designed for 2.0L engines....hahahah....what a joke

[04v8s4]

If you read the description its based on the Eaton M62 supercharger, which is apparently the stock blower on the cobalt SS.

They are probably running 15+ PSI on those low compression 2.0L engines. So with a 4.2L high compression engine running 5-7 psi...the blower is probably more than adequate. It also means it will probably have excellent low speed efficiency due to the small volume.

I'm interested to see how this plays out. PES and VF are all using much older M90 style superchargers.

[JohnnyAlQaeda]

id take the "four banger" s/c'er over any of the others currently offered...

[CHECKERED]

the TVS 1320 does seem efficient and flows surprisingly well for being a small supercharger...go figure

[ArthurPE]

neither look like a perfect application...
say we want 1325 m^/hr (780 cf/min) at 1.35 Pr (5 psi boost) ~ 7800 rpm, good for 520 HP
vol of na engine at 7800 ~ 580 cf/min so 780/580 ~ 1.35 ~ Pr

blower.....rpm.....eff
R1320....16500...<55%
M90.......off the chart

am I missing something?

it's an Eaton http://www.eaton.com/EatonCom/Produc.../TVS/index.htm

[pattrick02]

that's one tiny s'charger -_-

[CHECKERED]

am I missing something?

No, you nailed it.
The R1320 is better than the M90 for said application
Not perfect but a step in the right direction

[KryptoniK]

id take the "four banger" s/c'er over any of the others currently offered...

What do you understand from those charts that made you come to that decision?

From my understanding 1.34 pressure ratio = 5 psi. At that same PSI and at the air flow rate that is needed... there is minimal difference between the two. The R1320 is slightly better... not sure how the difference will translate into a real world scenario @ 5 psi.

The R1320 is more appropriate for big boost applications, that's where it's really efficient. At 5 psi everything is sort of in the same area of efficiency.

[KryptoniK]

neither look like a perfect application...
say we want 1325 m^/hr (780 cf/min) at 1.35 Pr (5 psi boost) ~ 7800 rpm, good for 520 HP
vol of na engine at 7800 ~ 580 cf/min so 780/580 ~ 1.35 ~ Pr

blower.....rpm.....eff
R1320....16500...<55%
M90.......off the chart

am I missing something?

it's an Eaton http://www.eaton.com/EatonCom/Produc.../TVS/index.htm

I think there is something missing in all of our assumptions of how these S/Cers work. From doing my logs, I found out that at 6K rpm I'm at 5 psi, by the time I reach 8K rpm I'm at 6 psi. So that means the M90 is meeting the needs of the motor since it makes more boost up top?

Also my dyno charts show HP increasing all the way up to 8K rpm with the M90.

I tihnk the R1320 is going to be more efficient than the M90, but not by a whole lot... in a 5psi application that is.

[ArthurPE]

I printed the charts and made up a spreadsheet trying to keep parameters ~ the same, ie, boost ~5 psi, overspeed ~ the same (the M90 must be spinning >13500 to get the required air...

my opinion, both are an engineering compromise, each designer must have had different priorities...and I won't second guess them:
-the R1320 is more efficient, considerable so (avg over the range 62 vs 53, 17% more efficient)...meaning better thermal effciency...plus it's got an intercooler, so advantage R1320
-the M90 turns much slower, peak 15.6k vs 17.1k at 7800 rpm engine speed (R1320 overspeed 1% over last chart value, M90 ~15%), advantage to each, less over-range R1320, slower = less parasitic losses for the M90

I'm guessing the increase in efficiency should ~ offset the increase in parastic losses, so power should be ~ equal provided the M90 has an intercooler...

I can't attach the ExCel spreadsheet, if someone wants it, PM me...

[Wizard-of-OD]

http://www.quattroworld.com/tunernew...er-for-b7-rs4/

No real details yet... Thoughts?

The first thing that springs to mind for me is "2 more weeks". ;) Just kidding guys. Thanks for throwing another option into the ring!

APR was actually the first company to successfully supercharger the V8 motor. Keith had cast intake manifolds from 2005? if I remember correctly. They were casted right around the time as the 1.8T intakes.Whatever the case finally good to see them come out with the kit.

[NY07RS4]

I like options...this can only help us further our knowledge of the potentials, pros, cons and help us make educated decisions. I like competition, it benefits everyone imo.

[richib86]

^^^ x2

[KryptoniK]

I really hope this kit comes out in the market. Would love to see resutls of a different blower. It looks like APR's intake manifold uses a fairly large cooler core, noticed the coolant tubes exiting on the far sides of the IM... looks like a very efficient kit.

Noticed they also scrapped the stock rubber intake tube and replaced it with a silicone type tube.

[Keith@APR]

Please put all questions, comments and conversations regarding our new product in this thread. I will be back to update this first post with more information as I recover from this weekend's events.

If Mr. Perfect sees this, I think it would be awesome if you could get Anthony to merge this thread with the one you've already started.

FWIW, all questions and concerns will be quite handily satisfied with real data and performance results so please, let's get them out there. All APR critics and self taught engineers, GET IN HERE!!

[beemercer]

Two weeks?

[SoCalS4Avant]

If Mr. Perfect sees this, I think it would be awesome if you could get Anthony to merge this thread with the one you've already started.

As you requested, I merged the two threads. There's a few of of that can help out around here. lol

Best of luck. We look forward to much more info.

[ArthurPE]

Please put all questions, comments and conversations regarding our new product in this thread. I will be back to update this first post with more information as I recover from this weekend's events.

If Mr. Perfect sees this, I think it would be awesome if you could get Anthony to merge this thread with the one you've already started.

FWIW, all questions and concerns will be quite handily satisfied with real data and performance results so please, let's get them out there. All APR critics and self taught engineers, GET IN HERE!!

aren't all engineers self-taught? (in fact, isn't everybody self taught?)
it's not like knowledge and understanding can be rammed into someone, they must seek it on their own, ie, self taught :D
all an education does is give you the basics...the rest is up to the individual....

[jfunkey]

ArthurPE hit this one out of the park and johnnyalQ put up the maps that end the case. The M90 isn't a good choice for our cars the 1320 isn't the biggest blower
for our cars but its a better choice. Its clear that the TVS blower isn't just more effiecent its a better choice and not the step I would like to see but a step none the
less.

For all of you who call us REAL world guys Supercharger hatters and say were JHM band waggon only guys who hate the Superchargers....Your going to have to
eat your words.. This is what we have been asking for from the begining a real proper selected Supercharger... Im not going to do cart wheels just yet... You can
show me 500whp and you still need to get this to a track or your just blowing smoke with a better cover..

Also the boost argument... Boost is a measure of how innefficent the blower/unit is... such as the intake. Intercooler core. ETC ETC..

APR nice step the first REAL dicent looking step for the RS4...Not a Supercharger hatter no more.. Now it looks like we have some hope.... Still need to get that to the
track before Im going to be convinced

the only issue I have is Quattro world???? seriously... FTL.. Post this where real interested people come to get good information

[beemercer]

the only issue I have is Quattro world???? seriously... FTL.. Post this where real interested people come to get good information

All those guys over there do a lot of jogging in cl....


Anways R1320 is an improvement, but I think a R1900 would've been amazing. The smaller blower will work well with a conservative and safe tune that APR is known for.

[Keith@APR]

As you requested, I merged the two threads. There's a few of of that can help out around here. lol

Best of luck. We look forward to much more info.

Could you put my post first please? I would like to be able to edit it with product information specific to the thread so its easy to find for new thread participants.

[Keith@APR]

aren't all engineers self-taught? (in fact, isn't everybody self taught?)
it's not like knowledge and understanding can be rammed into someone, they must seek it on their own, ie, self taught :D
all an education does is give you the basics...the rest is up to the individual....

Nope, that's why they have teachers and our higher education market is a multi-billion dollar industry. If everyone was self taught, schools would be unnecessary.

That's why every company spends lot's of money to institute training programs as well. Training = teaching. You of all people should understand this, no?

I didn't say it was a bad thing by any means.

[mattlqx]

I believe it will always be chronological.

Create another and I'll lock this with a link to it.

[Keith@APR]

Two weeks?

We call that 13 days and 24 hours now, thank you.

[mattlqx]

APR's official thread is here. Please direct all questions and comments there!