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Thread: TIP/6 speed DIY

  1. #1
    Veteran Member Four Rings Mantis's Avatar
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    TIP/6 speed DIY

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    First off, Big thanks to Rakta, without his help, the swap would not have been possible.For those who asked, here is a trans swap DIY, make sure to check out the photobucket pics linked at the bottom

    First pull the engine and trans, the first time I did this I used The Jerbel's pull as reference, but here is another pull guide http://www.vaglinks.com/Docs/Audi/B5...ne_Removal.pdf

    What you will need

    1- 01E trans
    2- Flywheel and clutch
    3- Clutch master/slave cylinders
    4- Clutch pedal assy
    5- Hydraulic lines for clutch
    6- shifter and linkage
    7- surround trim and shifter boot
    8- front axles
    9- Propshaft or trans/propshaft adapter
    10- Rear differential
    11- A 6 speed wiring harness is good to have, any condition, you are going to chop it up


    Completely remove exhaust, driveshaft and rear diff. Dont take rear axles out, unless you are planning on changing them. mark u joint mount point for later reference. Pull the wiring harness and ECU out, you will need it out to modify it.

    Once the drivetrain is out, split the engine and trans, make sure to mark the bell housing bolts so you can put them back where they belong

    Take the TC carrier/tone ring off the engine, use a propane torch and lightly heat the spacer on the crank, use a deadblow hammer and tap, it should come right off

    Mount the flywheel and torque to 44ft/lb + 180 turn, rmemeber that the flywheel is keyed, so it only goes on in one position

    Align the clutch and install, torque to 25ft/lb in a diagonal sequence

    At the trans, install new T.O. bearing

    If you are lucky the 01E you picked up came with the bolts to mount to the engine, if not, get a set, they are not exactly the same as the TIP

    Bolt the engine and trans back together, I found it easiest to use the engine hoist to hold the motor and a 3 ton rolling jack under the trans, get the top bolts started, then slowly work around clockwise until they are all started, then torque to spec

    Put the downpipes on, I used the TIP downpipes, and adapted the spring mounts to mount to the 6 speed trans

    Source the correct differential for your application, if you have an S4, you must use the S4 6 speed diff, if you have an A6, you must use the A6 diff. These parts are not interchangeable between the 2 platforms

    Fill the new diff with your gear oil of choice (redline 75/90) while it is out of the car, on a flat surface.

    Put the new diff into the car and torque

    Put the propshaft in, at this point you can choose a new/used propshaft, or what I did was have a billet trans/propshaft adapter machined, the TIP trans is about 3" longer






    The in car shit

    Bolt the shifter box into the car

    Remove driverside kick panels

    Remove bake pedal assy, I tried to get the brake booster from the pedal assy with a tool I fabbed, but ended up back wrenching the servo ball nut and removing it that way.




    With the brake pedal assy out, you can get the servo ball out of the white clips that hold it in, and put the servo ball back on the brake booster. I picked up a complete clutch pedal assy from Shokan, it included the clutch pedal position switch, the clutch vac/vent switch, I replaced the master cylinder with a new one

    The clutch portion of the assy bolts to the brake portion, don't bolt them together until they are in place.

    Now put the Brake assy in the car, then work the clutch pedal around the steering column into place, bolt the 2 of them together

    Tighten down all nuts and bolts and your done that part

    The rest of the in car is wiring and final istallation (same as any engine/trans pull)



    Now on to modifying the wiring, Prince@VAST got me in touch with Rakta, he not only sent me these detailed pics and info, he was available to answer questions when they arose. I used this as a reference, use your Bentley wiring diagrams for exact wires on your application. I also had a 6 speed harness that I was able to cut up,

    The red connector near the ECU has an empty terminal in slot #1. You need to install one female wire terminal in here, into slot #1. Likewise, you'll need to install the matching male terminal in the red connector down inside the ecu/firewall hole. This connector is the long and flat looking one. that whole run of colored connectors can come out through the footwell inside the car if you move enoug hstuff out of the way. tha'ts how i got them out.

    Then there's the white connector. This one is kind of tricky. You will want some 22 gauge wire for this.

    1. pop off the large plastic housing of the ECU cartridge connector. Yes, I' m talking about the big one. Also pull the purple "lock" out so that you can get the array of terminals out of the plastic part completely.

    2. you need to take your 22 gauge wire and press it into terminal 39 like the other wires are pressed in: the splicing terminator is already in the plastic housing, so you just smash the insulated wire in there to "seat" it. you can use a volt meter to make sure the contact is strong.

    3. this wire should run from the ECU cartridge over to the white connector, terminal #13. So install a male and female terminal in both ends of the white connector.. This is the tiny, square pin sized terminal.

    white contact #13 goes to the clutch plunger switch. for the second clutch plunger switch wire, splice from the black and blue wire in the four-wire brake plunger switch. it's not EXACTLY the way a stock 6 speed is wired, but they both terminate at the same place, so a splice is permissible.

    red contact #1 goes to the reverse lights switch on the trans. You'll want a long spool of 16 or 18 gauge wire to create this. Just ziptie it to the harness as it travels along the firewall and behind the engine. The other wire for the reverse light switch is brown connector #5.

    on the brown connector, there IS a terminal installed on the car side for slot #5. but there isn't a female one on slot #5. so you'll want one female connector for brown. this one and the red one make up the reverse lights.


    reverse lights:

    since the brown connector already has a male pin at slot #5 (verify this), that part is already plumbed. so you only need to take the repair wire that you installed in the red connector and splice it to one of the wires in the connector station below the fuse panel. first find the brown connector with 10 pins, and the wire you want to splice onto is blue with a red stripe and fairly thick.


    clutch pedal position:

    CPP switch is F194 (manual-only, of course), and F125 is the tiptronic wiring harness. anyway:

    the tiptronic harness that used to connect to the trans is what you have to gut for this one. look carefully near the driver side of the subframe and follow the tiptronic harness as it goes into the chassis. it goes straight back and into the footwell, there is a rubber plenum that it sneaks through. it's behind the pedals. you need to cut this thing open and find the wire that is brown with a white stripe. It's a very thin wire. I think there's another one, maybe white with brown stripe, so make sure you get the thinner of the two. This wire is what you need to splice into for one terminal of the clutch pedal position switch. These switches are simple contact switches so it doens't matter which wire you connect t owhich terminal.

    The second wire for the clutch pedal position switch is just ground, so run a wire to one of the two grounding bolts over there by the fuse panel.

    When I was done with the wiring I tucked the unused TIP harness betweeen the frame rail and the heat shielding on the drivers side of the engine bay, I cut the connectors off and used liquid electrical tape to seal the ends, then folded them back. I left the TCU harness in place in the passenger footwell, but removed the TCU.

    When all was done I had to get my ECU flashed, then use vagcom to recode the cluster and ABS modules. I can't recall exact codes that I used, but I can pull them from VCDS if needed. My ECU is M box coded


    http://s291.photobucket.com/albums/l...iring%20issue/
    Last edited by Mantis; 12-13-2009 at 03:42 AM.
    I don't think I care anymore

  2. #2
    Veteran Member Three Rings jeffp477's Avatar
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    Re: TIP/6 speed DIY

    big props nothing77.

  3. #3
    Active Member Three Rings
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    Re: TIP/6 speed DIY

    If anyone is interested I have everything needing for this conversion, only 70k on it, PM me.

  4. #4
    Veteran Member Four Rings toaster's Avatar
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    Re: TIP/6 speed DIY

    are you serious?

    really crazy.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Two Rings BLK01S4's Avatar
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    Re: TIP/6 speed DIY

    when you say source a dif, doesn't the dif COME with the transmission ?
    Stage III Tip Mods "Stuff"
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  6. #6
    Veteran Member Four Rings Mantis's Avatar
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    Re: TIP/6 speed DIY

    Not the rear diff, they have different gear ratios from TIP to 6 speed, Toaster, serious/crazy directed to me? When you build a stage 3 car and the trans fails, what else are you gonna do?
    I don't think I care anymore

  7. #7
    Senior Member Two Rings S4jet's Avatar
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    Re: TIP/6 speed DIY

    Great job nothing77. Could you ballpark the price for us please?
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  8. #8
    Senior Member Three Rings AddICTioN's Avatar
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    Re: TIP/6 speed DIY

    Wow, thanks for posting!
    Widebody B5 S4

  9. #9
    Veteran Member Four Rings Mantis's Avatar
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    Re: TIP/6 speed DIY

    You could do this for between 2500-3000. Of course you will always find something else to upgrade while you have everything out, so in the end it costs more than that.
    I don't think I care anymore

  10. #10
    Veteran Member Three Rings
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    Re: TIP/6 speed DIY

    I was just re-considering this idea after ordering a slew of parts the other day....Gonna run the tip and build a spare 6spd trans up in the mean time.

    Awesome Job on the swap DIY

  11. #11
    Senior Member Two Rings BLK01S4's Avatar
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    Re: TIP/6 speed DIY

    Can you keep the same tip engine ecu ? Or do you need like an M or T or A box now ?
    *edit* I just saw you recoded for M box, so you still have the same tune but just recoded the ecu I assume

    Also, who made the billet adapter ?
    Stage III Tip Mods "Stuff"
    Fastest Tiptronic ET: [email protected]

  12. #12
    Veteran Member Four Rings Mantis's Avatar
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    Re: TIP/6 speed DIY

    You can most certainly use the same ECU, it just needs to be recoded. I was running GIAC, but I have a spare block and ECU, so I sold the GIAC and recoded my other ECU with VAST software.
    I don't think I care anymore

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    Veteran Member Three Rings Paulyworld1432's Avatar
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    Re: TIP/6 speed DIY

    Awesome, maybe I suck at reading but did you mention the clutch master/slave cylinder addition?

  14. #14
    Veteran Member Four Rings Mantis's Avatar
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    Re: TIP/6 speed DIY

    Nope, you dont suck, I did mention replacing the master cylinder while putting in the clutch pedal assy. The slave mounts at the trans, and the hydraulic OEM line connects the 2 of them. I picked up some fuel line and cut the tab on the brake resevoire for the line into the master. Fishing that OEM line is a major PITA, but worth getting and putting it just like stock. I gravity bled the entire system, worked out great, I only had to pump up the clutch pedal once and bleed to remove all the air.
    I don't think I care anymore

  15. #15
    Veteran Member Four Rings Raacerx's Avatar
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    Re: TIP/6 speed DIY

    Quote Originally Posted by nothing77 View Post
    Nope, you dont suck, I did mention replacing the master cylinder while putting in the clutch pedal assy. The slave mounts at the trans, and the hydraulic OEM line connects the 2 of them. I picked up some fuel line and cut the tab on the brake resevoire for the line into the master. Fishing that OEM line is a major PITA, but worth getting and putting it just like stock. I gravity bled the entire system, worked out great, I only had to pump up the clutch pedal once and bleed to remove all the air.
    Great you documented this thing. Repped!!! I love swaps.
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    Veteran Member Three Rings kiellish's Avatar
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    Re: TIP/6 speed DIY

    awesome write up man thanks. i was always wondering what it would take to do this.

  17. #17
    Veteran Member Four Rings jibberjive's Avatar
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    Re: TIP/6 speed DIY

    Good on ya I told you everyone is going to be stoked for your efforts.
    ** GT2860R-7 S4 Build Log--

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  18. #18
    Registered Member One Ring
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    Re: TIP/6 speed DIY

    for those who were so sure it was completely impractical... guess what :)

  19. #19
    Senior Member Two Rings Mrsfourrings's Avatar
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    Re: TIP/6 speed DIY

    Where was the adapter purchased? Or who made it and can they make another?

  20. #20
    Veteran Member Four Rings jibberjive's Avatar
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    Re: TIP/6 speed DIY

    Quote Originally Posted by rakta View Post
    for those who were so sure it was completely impractical... guess what :)
    How is your car doing BTW? You maybe down for some engine re-assembly over the holidays?
    ** GT2860R-7 S4 Build Log--

    LOOKING FOR:
    --Late 2.7t Block "BF"
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  21. #21
    Registered User Four Rings Scotty@Advanced's Avatar
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    Re: TIP/6 speed DIY

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrsfourrings View Post
    Where was the adapter purchased? Or who made it and can they make another?
    WE have used our single piece drive shaft with all our 6 speed conversions for those who can't install a drive shaft or can't obtain an adapter.

    Click here for Single Piece Drive Shaft

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    Veteran Member Three Rings FlaS4's Avatar
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    Re: TIP/6 speed DIY

    Quote Originally Posted by Scotty@Advanced View Post
    WE have used our single piece drive shaft with all our 6 speed conversions for those who can't install a drive shaft or can't obtain an adapter.

    Click here for Single Piece Drive Shaft
    How much lighter?

    And you only need to change the propshaft.

    OP, was the wiring that bad or does it just look like it?

  23. #23
    Veteran Member Four Rings Mantis's Avatar
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    Re: TIP/6 speed DIY

    The wiring just looks bad, if you use Rakta's guide, then crack open your bentley manual, it should take about 3-4hrs. The trans adapter was made for me by "Standens Springs" in Calgary. They did not charge me on the material, just the machining and design time.
    I don't think I care anymore

  24. #24
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Re: TIP/6 speed DIY

    Great writeup and project. Good to know it can be done :) Whats next for you?

  25. #25
    Veteran Member Four Rings Reich's Avatar
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    Re: TIP/6 speed DIY

    Wow thank's. Remember i asked you what was needed for this swap?

    You pretty much answered my question with this. Thank's again.

    Now time to find a good tranny and good clutch.

  26. #26
    Veteran Member Four Rings Mantis's Avatar
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    Re: TIP/6 speed DIY

    I have a block that is tanked/bored, and cradling a 3.0l crank. I have a definite idea of what I want to do.

    Reich, you are one of the people I hoped would see this, a couple asked what was needed, more asked how hard is it. Well as you can see, really not that tough
    I don't think I care anymore

  27. #27
    Veteran Member Four Rings Reich's Avatar
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    Re: TIP/6 speed DIY

    Quote Originally Posted by nothing77 View Post
    I have a block that is tanked/bored, and cradling a 3.0l crank. I have a definite idea of what I want to do.

    Reich, you are one of the people I hoped would see this, a couple asked what was needed, more asked how hard is it. Well as you can see, really not that tough
    Yeah you can do the 3L now you have the tranny that can hold-it.

    Do you think a 5 speed would do the job as well to fit with a 6 speed rear diff?
    Where can i find info about tranny ratios to compare 5 speed with 6 speed?

    Thank's again...

  28. #28
    Account Terminated Three Rings pzp107's Avatar
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    Re: TIP/6 speed DIY

    I have a full setup for $2000 with wiring harness for this conversion as well. Yo ucan also have any odds and ends bolts etc with it you want.

  29. #29
    Registered User Four Rings Scotty@Advanced's Avatar
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    Re: TIP/6 speed DIY

    Quote Originally Posted by FlaS4 View Post
    How much lighter?
    B5 single piece prop shaft weighs 9 pounds (without joints) compared to the 15 pounds the stock weighs (without joints).

    Quote Originally Posted by Reich View Post
    Yeah you can do the 3L now you have the tranny that can hold-it.

    Where can i find info about tranny ratios to compare 5 speed with 6 speed?Thank's again...
    6 speed S4 EDU code:

    1-3.50
    2-1.89
    3-1.23
    4-1.03
    5-.81
    6-.68
    Final 4.11

    5 Speed 01E
    1-3.50
    2-1.89
    3-1.27
    4-1.03
    5-.73
    Final 4.11

  30. #30
    Veteran Member Four Rings Reich's Avatar
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    Re: TIP/6 speed DIY

    Quote Originally Posted by Scotty@Advanced View Post
    B5 single piece prop shaft weighs 9 pounds (without joints) compared to the 15 pounds the stock weighs (without joints).



    6 speed S4 EDU code:

    1-3.50
    2-1.89
    3-1.23
    4-1.03
    5-.81
    6-.68
    Final 4.11

    5 Speed 01E
    1-3.50
    2-1.89
    3-1.27
    4-1.03
    5-.73
    Final 4.11
    Thank's a lot

  31. #31
    Senior Member Three Rings Caddy7's Avatar
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    Re: TIP/6 speed DIY

    nice job!!

    So how do you like the 6sp now after running the tip?
    For sale: 2000 S4 Silver, K04, FMIC, Piggies, MBC, SSP tune & Rebuilt TIP.

  32. #32
    Veteran Member Four Rings dougyfresh's Avatar
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    Re: TIP/6 speed DIY

    Quote Originally Posted by nothing77 View Post
    I like that! Very novel!


    Good to see more people attempting (and succeeding) the automatic to manual transmission swap. I am actually working on the same thing for a fellow AZr with a B6 A4 1.8T.
    -Doug
    2002 A4 Avant EPL tuned 2.7T K04 6spd

  33. #33
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Re: TIP/6 speed DIY

    Care to expound on the differences between the S4 & the A6 differentials?

    Regards,

    H. Kurt Betton

  34. #34
    Veteran Member Three Rings s4nicetry's Avatar
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    Re: TIP/6 speed DIY

    Nice work Ryan, good write up for sure this should be moved to the s4wiki.

  35. #35
    Veteran Member Four Rings Mantis's Avatar
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    Re: TIP/6 speed DIY

    I am loving the 6 speed, I fell in love with the car all over again. Thanks for the props Rob, it took alot of time and effort, hopefully this writeup makes it less time and effort for the next guys
    I don't think I care anymore

  36. #36
    Registered User Four Rings Scotty@Advanced's Avatar
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    Re: TIP/6 speed DIY

    Quote Originally Posted by Bettonracing View Post
    Care to expound on the differences between the S4 & the A6 differentials?

    Regards,

    H. Kurt Betton
    B5 rear differentials have a very long "snout" on the front of the diff C5 (A6) differentials do not.

  37. #37
    Senior Member Three Rings lukeag25's Avatar
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    Re: TIP/6 speed DIY

    I'm thinking this will be my Christmas present to me! The wiring looked tedious, but turned out slick. Any info on the pins/terminals to make them easier to souce? Or did you just cut them out of the donor harness?
    Stg3 B5 S4

  38. #38
    Registered Member One Ring
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    Re: TIP/6 speed DIY

    jibber: after my 6 speed swap things have been pretty damn smooth. it's been nearly a year now, and nobody would be able to tell it was ever a tip.

    i DO need to do a bit of motor work.. i think my bank 1 cam tensioner is broken. sometimes i get good timing adjustments, and the torque is wherever i want it. other times it drives like a corolla and it pisses me off.

    never ends :)

  39. #39
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Re: TIP/6 speed DIY

    Quote Originally Posted by Scotty@Advanced View Post
    B5 rear differentials have a very long "snout" on the front of the diff C5 (A6) differentials do not.
    Thanks for the response. Can this long snout be cured with a custom length 1 piece driveshaft?...

    Regards,

    H. Kurt Betton

  40. #40
    Veteran Member Four Rings Mantis's Avatar
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    Re: TIP/6 speed DIY

    Kurt, I tired to fit the S diff in the A6, but the mounts do not line up. The S diff would sit forward by 1.5", and the side mount locations absolutely do not line up, and then there is the issue of supporting the snout. The A6 has dual fuel tanks that make it impossible to install the S front, rear diff mount. Just save yourself the headache and get the A6 6 speed diff.

    Lukeag25 I used a terminal driver (small flatblade screwdriver) to punch the wiring out of the connectors, worked like a charm
    I don't think I care anymore

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