B7 A4 Timing Belt Change

[Shanster]

Unfortunately, I do not have the space to perform my own TB change so I'm bringing it to a shop. They quoted me a good price of $895 (parts and labor). I followed up asking if thermostat, accessory drive belt tensioner and idler pulley were included and he replied that they were not. I understand that these are OPTIONAL (based on kits from our vendors), but should I go ahead and have them replaced anyway?
He made it sound like the thermostat really isn't necessary if it is working fine but did not comment on the drive belt tensioner or idler pulley.

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

[A-BlacK_MambA-4]

Most kits that I have saw include those and yes replace them while you're in there. I did this in my driveway no need for shop space lol Not sure if $895 is a good price or not. Sounds kind of high to me. Maybe others can chime in.

[Shanster]

Thanks for the input! Unfortunately, I dont even have a driveway! In my searching, 800-900 has been a fair price for all in. Also, all of the kits I have seen them show them as optional items...hmm. Either way, I think I'm going to have those replaced too.

On a scale from 1-10 how difficult are we talking? Like an 8? (and not a phil 8, a normal person's 8...a phil 8 is like a normal person's 13)

[M0E7]

Unfortunately, I do not have the space to perform my own TB change so I'm bringing it to a shop. They quoted me a good price of $895 (parts and labor). I followed up asking if thermostat, accessory drive belt tensioner and idler pulley were included and he replied that they were not. I understand that these are OPTIONAL (based on kits from our vendors), but should I go ahead and have them replaced anyway?
He made it sound like the thermostat really isn't necessary if it is working fine but did not comment on the drive belt tensioner or idler pulley.

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

I changed out my accessory belt tensioner and idler pulley because they (probably just the pulley) were making noise.. Honestly, they can be changed separately from the TB job in about 15 minutes, so leave them be if the shop adds more than 1/2 hour labor. The tensioner has to come off anyway for the TB job, and the pulley is just one bolt; in reality it is just one bolt more than they would have been doing.

IMO, the thermostat is of a similar difficulty to change during or separately from the TB job (I had to do both), but it can be tricky the first time and without a driveway. I would pay them to do the thermostat and save money on the accessory belt parts.

I did not find any kits that included the accessory belt tensioner and idler puller, and the ones including the thermostat were priced slightly higher to reflect that.

[tankdeer]

Thanks for the input! Unfortunately, I dont even have a driveway! In my searching, 800-900 has been a fair price for all in. Also, all of the kits I have seen them show them as optional items...hmm. Either way, I think I'm going to have those replaced too.

On a scale from 1-10 how difficult are we talking? Like an 8? (and not a phil 8, a normal person's 8...a phil 8 is like a normal person's 13)

Difficulty is like a 5. Intimidation is a 10. In reality it's not difficult, just intimidating. Thermostat is a must because you need to remove 80% of the same shit to do it later if you wait. Might as well do it now. Accessory belt is provided in most kits, the tensioners usually are not (TB tensions are, just not accessory)

[A-BlacK_MambA-4]

Difficulty is like a 5. Intimidation is a 10. In reality it's not difficult, just intimidating. Thermostat is a must because you need to remove 80% of the same shit to do it later if you wait. Might as well do it now. Accessory belt is provided in most kits, the tensioners usually are not (TB tensions are, just not accessory)

Tank hit it right on the head. It's not that it's difficult at all, more intimidating than anything. I'd say like Tank, 5-6 on the difficulty scale.

[martinofski]

The hardest part for me when doing it was to make sure I had all the tools and parts before I touched the car. Just because I was alone for the weekend and no access to other car.

For the regular parts, I usually shop on Rockauto.com, they have some good price compared to local store in Canada, just need to buy good quality, not the cheapest.

I agree it isn't a such hard job, but it is a job that involve time. was a 5-6 for me, mostly because of the time...at one point, you want to get the thing finished, more when everything is disassembled. I am not a car mechanic, but wasn't a first try either at car maintenance.

Also, a tip for people with a garage : I had a polythene roll laying around, so I just installed it on the floor, roll the car over before stating the work. Keep that floor clean. Wipe the polythene clean after or trash it.

[fly300kts]

and not a phil 8, a normal person's 8...a phil 8 is like a normal person's 13

LOL !!!!!

Phil

[papadelogan]

Question for those of us that are doing this because the timing belt broke:

What marks are available for me to use to ensure that I get the timing belt installed/timed correctly?

[mec]

Question for those of us that are doing this because the timing belt broke:

What marks are available for me to use to ensure that I get the timing belt installed/timed correctly?

THe metal that goes on the back of the cam sprocket has a mark on it, Align it with the cam sprocket mark.

The crank does not have a mark. You have to put the plastic or metal timing cover on, that has a mark. Then you put on the serpentine crank pulley, and that has a mark on them, align them together. Alternatively you can remove spark plug #1 and put a long screwdriver down the hole, rotate the engine until you find TDC.

[The_Ocho]

Gonna be doing my belt tomorrow, totally looking forward to it

[papadelogan]

Phil confirmed that there is a mark on the harmonic balancer/dampener and a corresponding mark on the metal plate behind it. Once the dampener is removed you lose those reference marks, so be like Phil and make new marks the moment you get the dampener off and confirm that you did not rotate the crank.

One other thing I did before removing the dampener; I made sure my timing marks were aligned, and then used a straight edge and a "White Out" pen to make a mark on the fully across the face of the crank gear bolt (the 12pt 19mm one) before removing the dampener. (see pic below)



Thanks to this writeup as well as Martin's time, tools, and knowledge, my beloved A4 should be rejoining the fray by tomorrow afternoon.

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[papadelogan]

I'm hoping to contribute to the DIY nature of this thread, with focus on those CRAPASS ALUMINUM dampener bolts.

4 came out smoothly. 6mm hex bit on the IR impact and they spun out nicely. The last two... UGH. Stripped.

My solution was to use a chisel and "trim off" some of the head of the bolt on the edge closest to the crank gear bolt. You need to get some room in there. Then, I did the same thing but on the opposite side of that same bolt. Now... time for retribution. I took an 11mm impact grade "bolt out" socket and hammered it down on to the bolt head. REALLY get that puppy seated down on it..... then pop the impact gun on it, presss IN and pull the trigger.

There are other methods, but this was mine and it worked. Hopefully you'll never need to do what I did... it's a pain and time consuming. Everything else... not so bad really.

[fly300kts]

I'm hoping to contribute to the DIY nature of this thread, with focus on those CRAPASS ALUMINUM dampener bolts.

4 came out smoothly. 6mm hex bit on the IR impact and they spun out nicely. The last two... UGH. Stripped.

My solution was to use a chisel and "trim off" some of the head of the bolt on the edge closest to the crank gear bolt. You need to get some room in there. Then, I did the same thing but on the opposite side of that same bolt. Now... time for retribution. I took an 11mm impact grade "bolt out" socket and hammered it down on to the bolt head. REALLY get that puppy seated down on it..... then pop the impact gun on it, presss IN and pull the trigger.

There are other methods, but this was mine and it worked. Hopefully you'll never need to do what I did... it's a pain and time consuming. Everything else... not so bad really.

The OEM bolts are really soft material and the head can be easily drilled. Then, you can removed the remaining shank by hand

Phil

[leftovers]

I'm feeling frustrated with my timing belt install. I followed ClownTrigger's advice on page 2 and just pulled everything away from the car enough to get access to the timing belt area. I was doing pretty well until I stripped 2 bolts on the crank pulley. That now means I have to pull the entire front end off (drain coolant, evac a/c, etc) in order to gain access and drill those crappy bolts out. And right now neither of the radiator hoses want to come off, which leaves me stuck. I was hoping for better success with this project.

[papadelogan]

The crank pulley bolts are a PITA. I put my 'solution' up in Phil's Timing Belt DIY thread. Basically, chisel off some of the head (closest to the inner bolt and outer edge) then I pounded on an impact grade easy out socket and hit it with the air gun

[diond]

The crank pulley bolts are a PITA. I put my 'solution' up in Phil's Timing Belt DIY thread. Basically, chisel off some of the head (closest to the inner bolt and outer edge) then I pounded on an impact grade easy out socket and hit it with the air gun

I did the timing belt last week on my B7 and had no problems with those bolts. I removed those with air gun. You have to make sure that your triple square bit is correctly inserted inside before. So i confirm that with air gun, it is perfect.

[papadelogan]

Mine were not triple square, only hex socket bolts.

[fly300kts]

Mine were not triple square, only hex socket bolts.

If they were triple square, its because the timing belt was already replaced or some work was done to the pulley.
Original were HEX and Audi upgraded them to triple square

Phil

[diond]

If they were triple square, its because the timing belt was already replaced or some work was done to the pulley.
Original were HEX and Audi upgraded them to triple square

Phil

That is very interesting. I am not aware of any works done on the car by audi, except the intake cam, hpfp. But there was a previous owner for this car....

[fly300kts]

That is very interesting. I am not aware of any works done on the car by audi, except the intake cam, hpfp. But there was a previous owner for this car....

Well, I can tell you that in 2007, they were HEX bolts and not triple square

Phil

[diond]

Well, I can tell you that in 2007, they were HEX bolts and not triple square

Phil

And I trust you completely about that. On another point, when I changed the TB , I did not replace the serpentine belt and forgot to mark the rotation. So I put back the belt in place. Bentley manual is telling that reversing a used serpentine belt cause cause break of the timing belt. What do you think about that? I would expect that it could break the serp. Belt, not the TB

[tankdeer]

I've done timing belt jobs on three different B7's. Two 2008's and a 2006. All three had triple square, and all three came out fine. The new bolts were all hex but the OEM were not

[mec]

I've done timing belt jobs on three different B7's. Two 2008's and a 2006. All three had triple square, and all three came out fine. The new bolts were all hex but the OEM were not

I completed a tb job on a 2007, and a 2006 and they had triple square bolts, but my car is a 2006, and had hex bolts, my 2005.5 also had hex bolts, and I've seen 2 other 2007's with hex bolts. I think its not about the year it may have been where they were assembled, or some other arbitrary clue like if it has a red t or a silver t

[LINDW4LL]

I did the timing belt last weekend and of course had the stripped crank pulley bolt issue (they were allen/hex bolts- car is an '06). I didn't think to check this thread. Chiseling the head or drilling them out sounded like a pain in the ass.

Easiest fix: Hammer a 12mm socket over the bolts and reverse with air gun. All 6 were stripped, and all 6 came out instantly with the socket trick. (Thanks Steve!)

[fly300kts]

Did quite few TB and doing another one this WE on a 2007 who has HEX bolts
Nice trick about the 12 mm socket
If they are too much of a pain, I just drill the head. Metal is really soft and since so thread lock is used, you can removed the remaining threaded part by hand

Phil

[Latin Audi]

Am curious of everyone's opinion on the below comment? If I understand him correctly, I do not see the logic in marking the rotation on the dampner pulley. Only rotation you should worry about is the cam and crank ensuring they are in sync.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

And I trust you completely about that. On another point, when I changed the TB , I did not replace the serpentine belt and forgot to mark the rotation. So I put back the belt in place. Bentley manual is telling that reversing a used serpentine belt cause cause break of the timing belt. What do you think about that? I would expect that it could break the serp. Belt, not the TB

[diond]

Am curious of everyone's opinion on the below comment? If I understand him correctly, I do not see the logic in marking the rotation on the dampner pulley. Only rotation you should worry about is the cam and crank ensuring they are in sync.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

I wrote to mark the belt itself, not the pulley. So when you put back the belt in place, you place it in the same position (rotation meaning).

[Latin Audi]

I need some advice. I installed the tensioner and then wrapped the belt around. However, when I went to turn the allen on the tensioner, the cam sprocket moved a bit. How do I bring it back? Am I ok to take the belt off and turn the crank to get it back to my markings?

[tankdeer]

Yup, that'll be fine

[Latin Audi]

Yup, that'll be fine

Thanks for confirming.

One thing I still don't see the reasoning behind is marking the dampner pulley. Once the pulley is off and you take off the bottom plate to expose the crank sprocket, you can then turn until the cam marks line up and then make your marks on the crank to coincide with the top timing. So why do you need any kind of markings on the dampner if the cam and crank move in unison??

[Spridle]

I had to stop for the evening once I hit those six bastages bolts. My small air ratchet that would have fit in there died last year. I don't see them coming out without air either. I just have rad support out in the service position so not a lot of room. I can't see any easy way to hold the crank while getting the socket wrench on those hex bolts. Maybe a deep offset box wrench. But really, air seems the easiest. Chisel and hammer a 12mm socket over the bolts sounds nice. But I see no way to get a hammer in there right now and I still need to hold the crank.

Found lots of oil leaks too. Have to start my own thread with some pictures tomorrow. But there's a puddle above the oil pan on the drivers side, some nice spray action on the passenger side of the bell housing and a decent amount of oil and grime in the tbelt covers. The cam seal looks dry, it looks like maybe it's seeping out around the camshaft position sensor.

Edit - I looked but did not see torque specs for those six bolts. Anyone know what they are supposed to be? Wondering if a little 50ft pound ratchet from the local home center will do it. I suspect that's enough to either do it, or strip them!

[seanB7]

I'm doing my timing belt this Sunday, A- because I'm due and B- my exhasut cam seal is leaking. Elsa says to not oil the seal, and Blau Parts instructions say oil the seal with clean enigine oil. Any thoughts or suggestions?

[mec]

Either way is fine, just make sure that the inner lip does not get smashed. If anything don't lube the seal, but lube the crank.

[Latin Audi]

I didn't see this covered in this thread and if it was my apologies.

Has anyone done some logs to see how spot on the timing is after install and then after all components have set in? Only info I could find was from a B5 S4/RS4 thread (http://audisrs.com/archive/cam-timin...__t_21169.html) to log MB's 91,92,93 and their spec was +/- 4 deg.

Does anyone happen to know the spec timing for our cars?

[seanB7]

Regarding the 6 crank pulley dampener bolts, Elsa says torque to 10nm, then turn 90 degrees. When I tried tuning 90 degrees, the bolts felt like they were going to stip out. Has any one else had this issue?


Total time for completion: 17 hours. Timing belt, cam seal, and motor mounts

[Latin Audi]

Yes. Pretty much everyone doing their TB encountered this problem. I was able to get 4/6 off but two I got off with relative ease with an Irwin Bolt Extractor (~$30).

Regarding the 6 crank pulley dampener bolts, Elsa says torque to 10nm, then turn 90 degrees. When I tried tuning 90 degrees, the bolts felt like they were going to stip out. Has any one else had this issue?


Total time for completion: 17 hours. Timing belt, cam seal, and motor mounts

[tankdeer]

I've done TB's on I think 3 different cars and not had any issues with those bolts

[LINDW4LL]

I didn't see this covered in this thread and if it was my apologies.

Has anyone done some logs to see how spot on the timing is after install and then after all components have set in? Only info I could find was from a B5 S4/RS4 thread (http://audisrs.com/archive/cam-timin...__t_21169.html) to log MB's 91,92,93 and their spec was +/- 4 deg.

Does anyone happen to know the spec timing for our cars?

As long as you mark the belt and both pulleys and then transfer the marks to the new belt, timing will be the same. It's block 091 in VAG-Com.

[bryonm]

I'm surprised that no one has thrown in a water pump DIY in this thread as well considering the two basically go hand in hand with the same time both are recommended to be replaced


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