Starter Issues; B6 S4 - Attempting Official Resolution

[Brooklyn]

Had my starter replaced yesterday. Went with the $200 starter from parts geek. For the first time in months, I woke up on a cold morning after the car had sat for over 8 hours and it immediately cranked up. Beautiful feeling. Hoping it lasts!

[Kevin7]

I can wrap up my end of the story too; finally had the dealer replace the starter. Car starts without hesitation now. The wife spoke with Audi corporate and we're doing what we can to get them to log this as a legitimate problem so that others don't have to go through what we went through. Thanks to everyone for their responses!

[SoCalS4Avant]

That's great news Brooklyn and Kevin. I'm thinking this will be the end of your starting problems!

Kevin, hopefully if/when others search and come across this, you can help by providing contact info at Audi. That way everyone can go through the same avenue.

[homeychan]

Great thread, my car also has the same problem. I just have to patient when it is really cold and then it starts. You needed a poll for how many people experience starting problems. Mine got worse after the dealer had the engine out for oil consumption. Audi denies everything and calling the AOA call centre is a waste of time, yeah some nice people but they can't do anything to help you other than listen.

[Kevin7]

I have to give props to Audi corporate. They diligently followed our whole ordeal, and ended up comping a portion of the service outside of the starter replacement (which was covered by CPO). Honestly, really impressed with the customer service there. I just wish Audi at large would realize and address this issue rather than making us pursue the dealer and pretty much force them into ordering a starter replacement. FYI, the number we used was this one: 800-822-2834.

[homeychan]

I have to give props to Audi corporate. They diligently followed our whole ordeal, and ended up comping a portion of the service outside of the starter replacement (which was covered by CPO). Honestly, really impressed with the customer service there. I just wish Audi at large would realize and address this issue rather than making us pursue the dealer and pretty much force them into ordering a starter replacement. FYI, the number we used was this one: 800-822-2834.

I guess you got lucky or I was unlucky, but I learned the people that answer the phones at AOA take messages and have no power to help you. They escalate back to somebody inside Audi that then tells them what is going to happen. If you have a mjaor issue like you need a new engine, the AOA process does not work very well. I am pretty sure I wouldn't have been nearly as upset if they told me my starter wasn't covered rather than my engine and sorry about all your stuff getting stolen, plus you have to pay to reassemble your car. My entire experience was frustrating, I could only deal with the supervisor, and he was impossible to get a hold of, then I always had to wait for the response back from inside Audi. Maybe I pissed somebody off in there, who knows?

[Captain Insano]

Good thread here. I'm waiting to see if my starter will act up now that it's getting cold. Thanks for all the helpful info especially links to decently priced starters.

[Brooklyn]

Think I'll give them a call. Will probably not get much traction since I went through an indie shop, nut there is no way in hell this is an isolated incident.

[v8s4]

Looks like my car's doing the same thing...the past two mornings, pressed in clutch, turned key, nothing. after two or three tries the car started flawlessly.

should i bother taking it back to the dealer? its still under extended warranty.

i take it there's not conclusion on whether its the starter or solenoid. i thought if the car cranks, its not the starter and if lights, accessories are not, its not the battery either??

[audimotion]

^^^ It's almost for sure the starter...I'd try the dealer and if they play the game of switching out clutch switches etc... and the starter still isn't working, then it IS the starter. I believe some members have paid (out of pocket) to have the starter replaced even though they are under warranty, because dealer does not address the starter issue right away and usually keeps the owner coming back over and over again with the same issue...which would get old real quick. Good luck.

[Brooklyn]

Too early to call it v8s4, but in my case the starter does appear to be the correct fix. This problem started for me in 2008, shortly after returning from a tour in Iraq. At first I chalked it up to a battery issue, or just gremlins from the car barely being driven over the course of 18 months, but I discounted that when I noticed that in warm weather the car cranked just fine. By early '09, it didn't really matter what the temps were. If the car sat overnight, it took a few seconds for it to crank. As the temps dropped, the time to start increased. Add a couple days between starts and cold weather, and I'd be out there doing multiple turn and holds with the key before the thing would turn over. My indie shop had only dealt with this once and the solution for them at that time was ignition switch and clutch switch, but research here and elsewhere seemed to suggest that while that offered a temporary reprieve, eventually the problem returns. I made a calculated gamble that it might be my battery and although the battery was about due for a change, it didn't put a dent in the problem. A business trip the next day took me out of town, and upon returning, the problem was there just as before. Replaced the starter, and instantaneous difference. My shop charged me 2 hours labor to do the work, and I bought the starter from parts geek. Knowing what I know now, that would be my first repair option at this point. Two days in with the new starter and car is cranking without any hesitation.

[93hrdtptt]

Well, I have a little update and a question.

Called the dealership yesterday and they said the tech cannot figure out why the car does not start and what is wrong with it. I did tell them in my complaints to check starter issues. So They've had my car for a work day and a half and still not call back. I'll be giving them a call this afternoon.

A friend of mine stated that when you check for fault codes in the vehicle, a starter malfunction fault should appear. Atleast with BMW's this is the case... Is this the same for our cars as well? Or is this a mystery repair where we have to let to come down to taking a poll lol. Shame on Audi for this

[Kevin7]

^ From what I understand, fault codes DO NOT appear when the starter has begun to malfunction. You're experiencing the exact same thing I had with my dealer. They finally replaced the starter on the third [towed] visit in; perhaps helped by Audi corporate's persuasion, but also my insistence that they replace the starter. The source of the problem - I believe - is that Audi doesn't officially recognize the starter issue, and thus does not advise its dealers of how to address.

Like I said, my experience with Audi corporate was positive (maybe I was lucky); we spoke with several people, they would call back and stay on top of the whole ordeal. And they called the dealer as well. Note I do have a CPO; so maybe those without a CPO don't get the same treatment.

[93hrdtptt]

^ From what I understand, fault codes DO NOT appear when the starter has begun to malfunction. You're experiencing the exact same thing I had with my dealer. They finally replaced the starter on the third [towed] visit in; perhaps helped by Audi corporate's persuasion, but also my insistence that they replace the starter. The source of the problem - I believe - is that Audi doesn't officially recognize the starter issue, and thus does not advise its dealers of how to address.

Like I said, my experience with Audi corporate was positive (maybe I was lucky); we spoke with several people, they would call back and stay on top of the whole ordeal. And they called the dealer as well. Note I do have a CPO; so maybe those without a CPO don't get the same treatment.

ahh...I hope there is a little bit of luck left for me dealing with AoA..

Just received a phone call from the dealer stating that a whole mess had been created..Something about the relay and ignition failing which burnt out the starter which burnt out the wiring, and thus draining the battery and causing it to fail.

I'm pretty certain that is the order he went in. My extended warranty service through Zurich will cover; Labor, Starter, and wiring which amounts to ~$760

He stated however, they will not cover the battery, ignition switch, and labor which I have to shell out $540. PLUS the battery of $278.00

So over 800$ for me due to from what I consider consequential damage due to a malfunctioning part.

I called AoA, spoke to a rep there and they said that a phone call will go in to the dealer and get a data file on the vehicle. If they dont see any campaigns or service actions, they are telling me it won't be covered.

Funny thing is...I work for in the warranty department (bmw lol) and I know the dealer can goodwill a service like this, and in the end get reimbursed regardless.

Anyways...Wish this was as easy and just installing a starter....

We should get everyone who has had this problem call in Audi and attempt to get some sort of reimbursement back into our pockets for this expense.

[SoCalS4Avant]

ahh...I hope there is a little bit of luck left for me dealing with AoA..

Just received a phone call from the dealer stating that a whole mess had been created..Something about the relay and ignition failing which burnt out the starter which burnt out the wiring, and thus draining the battery and causing it to fail.

I'm pretty certain that is the order he went in. My extended warranty service through Zurich will cover; Labor, Starter, and wiring which amounts to ~$760

He stated however, they will not cover the battery, ignition switch, and labor which I have to shell out $540. PLUS the battery of $278.00

So over 800$ for me due to from what I consider consequential damage due to a malfunctioning part.

I called AoA, spoke to a rep there and they said that a phone call will go in to the dealer and get a data file on the vehicle. If they dont see any campaigns or service actions, they are telling me it won't be covered.

Funny thing is...I work for in the warranty department (bmw lol) and I know the dealer can goodwill a service like this, and in the end get reimbursed regardless.

Anyways...Wish this was as easy and just installing a starter....

We should get everyone who has had this problem call in Audi and attempt to get some sort of reimbursement back into our pockets for this expense.

Kevin is indeed correct that there would be no faults for the starter failing.

That being said, be VERY careful with what the dealer is telling you. If what they say is indeed correct, at least it'll be fixed. However, I've seen the dealers fool with people and get them to replace the ignition switch, clutch switch, and battery only to have to come all the way back to starter. I'd hate for your problem ONLY to be the starter and have them charge you out the rear for everything else.

My opinion? Get a second opinion. It may save you some $$$.

[Brooklyn]

That's how it starts. A delay between turning the key and the car starting, which gets progressively worse and is particularly bad in cold weather. I had one of the auto parts stores check my battery and starter. Starter didn't appear to have any problems. Replacing it solved the problem.

[handyvorb]

It sounds like pretty much everyone is on the same page with the problem they're describing and it most likely being fixed with replacing the starter.

But, what I have a problem with is to the guys who've taken their car to a shop for this problem and them throwing parts at it. There's this little device called a multimeter which when properly used by the technician takes the GUESSING out of the picture, to have the car fixed right the first time without buying/installing unnecessary parts...

[Brooklyn]

That's interesting, because in my case once the car gets started, the problem goes away. If more than say 4 hours elapsed between the time the car was shut down and when I attempted to restart it, the delay would be there. but once started, there wouldn't be any problems getting the car to crank up again within that 4 hour window.

[v8s4]

That's interesting, because in my case once the car gets started, the problem goes away. If more than say 4 hours elapsed between the time the car was shut down and when I attempted to restart it, the delay would be there. but once started, there wouldn't be any problems getting the car to crank up again within that 4 hour window.

interesting...my car had problems starting every morning this week...but after that... no matter how long the car sat for, i had no issues...

so ppl that replaced the starter, the starting issue went away for good?

[Brooklyn]

With the new starter, I've had no issues. My post above was actually in reference to an earlier post where they guy mentioned that he got his car started and after getting it to a shop, they couldn't start it. Sounds like something more than just the starter there. But for me, the starter has done the trick. Parked my car yesterday at 1pm, and started it for the first time this am at around 10am. Temps haven't gone above mid 40's the entire time, and the car fired right up. Prior to replacing the starter, I would have been out there an easy 10 minutes trying to crank the thing.

interesting...my car had problems starting every morning this week...but after that... no matter how long the car sat for, i had no issues...

so ppl that replaced the starter, the starting issue went away for good?

[Kevin7]

Yes; once starter was replaced, issues went away. And my issues centered only around cold starts in the morning.

[drew]

glad you finaly got it taken care of kevin.

[audimotion]

Exacly...new starter = always starts. Here in MN, there has been a few mornings around 20 degrees and it has fired right up..no wait, no hesitation. Before I was getting starting delays at 50 degrees. The new starter cranks over VERY quick too.

[drew]

The new starter cranks over VERY quick too.

that is exactly the first thing i noticed about mine too. i was really surprised...

[mcksS4]

Thanks for all the input. I have looked for "this" thread since '07. My car is basically a toy for me and the starting problem is a nuisance but not critical. Cold temps are definitely a problem, however, this summer, if I did not start the car for a day or more I could wait up to 15 minutes or more for it to start. A "starter" or a battery problem seemed unlikely because when it turned over there was no drag or hesitation. I'll look into replacing the starter and follow up. Thanks Kevin7, et. al., for all the effort and information.

[Silver B6 S4]

^^^ It's not the starter itself, but the solenoid on the starter. That's why when it finally does turn over, It sounds healthy. Something about bad contacts/too much grease IIRC.

[Brooklyn]

Silver, is it possible to just replace the solenoid, or are you pretty much looking at a new starter at that point given the cost?

[Silver B6 S4]

Silver, is it possible to just replace the solenoid, or are you pretty much looking at a new starter at that point given the cost?

As much as I have researched, I can't find a place that just sells the solenoid. If you do find one, the starter needs to be pulled out anyway to replace it, so why not replace the whole unit. Like SoCal said, it's $200 from partsgeek for the complete unit.


Edit:

Here is the link:
http://www.partsgeek.com/catalog/200...l/starter.html

[93hrdtptt]

I received a call back from the dealership and here is what they found.

Ignition switch failed -> burned wiring -> fried relay for starter -> which in turned burned out starter.

Pretty much in that order...soooo, extended warranty is covering starter and relay.

I am attempting to have AoA help me out with the Ignition Switch and Wiring. So, we'll see what happens in the next few days.

Also, on a side note. They tried selling me on a new battery since it failed their battery test, but the thing holds juice and hasn't drained on my yet...So who knows about that one.

[93hrdtptt]

I received a call back from the dealership and here is what they found.

Ignition switch failed -> burned wiring -> fried relay for starter -> which in turned burned out starter.

Pretty much in that order...soooo, extended warranty is covering starter and relay.

I am attempting to have AoA help me out with the Ignition Switch and Wiring. So, we'll see what happens in the next few days.

Also, on a side note. They tried selling me on a new battery since it failed their battery test, but the thing holds juice and hasn't drained on my yet...So who knows about that one.

Sorry to bring this thing back lol, but everything is resolved..luckily I got a goodwill out of it, they ended up replacing the battery, starter, relay, and ignition switch..phewwww... just had to pay my deductible, car starts up a like a champ now. Good luck to everyone else that runs into this issue.

[Mike2004S4]

Mine died on me while overnighting in PA. Of course, the dealership didn't have the part so i had to leave it for 5 days. Mine only happened on cold days when it had been sitting for at least 8 hours. After that first time, it worked fine the rest of the day. Until it didn't.

[loucura]

Same issues here, ordered a new starter from partsgeek and getting it installed this Sunday.

[homeychan]

My car did not turn-over when cold, dealer did not see any codes, started by replacing clutch switch, but said power was going to the starter, but starter was not engaging. I never held key on, just turned on car and waited before trying again, usually after about 30 seconds or a minute it started. Mechanic replaced starter and now car starts in the cold and turns over very fast. Mechanic warned me that fuel pump may be next because it is very noisy when cold. Starter was the solution, all the people that hold the key on, it’s probably not a good idea, because that will burn up the wires. Mine cost me $900cdn at dealer with OEM Audi parts.

[jdparkes]

I too have had the issue with cold mornings in Rochester New York... Today was the culmination of the issue.

Unfortunately I didn't know about the issues when holding the key down. So after seeing a little smoke pouring out of the hood it was game over. The car is sitting in my drive way and I'm trying to figure out what needs done. I first called the stealership and they quoted me $700. I then called two other independent but audi focused shops which oddly both quoted even more. I see on parts geek the starter is now $130 so Im thinking of buying it then having a local shop do this at cost of labor. Im curious to try installing myself but I am not sure how hard it is to do?

Thoughts??

[MonkeyBiz]

I too have had the issue with cold mornings in Rochester New York... Today was the culmination of the issue.

Unfortunately I didn't know about the issues when holding the key down. So after seeing a little smoke pouring out of the hood it was game over. The car is sitting in my drive way and I'm trying to figure out what needs done. I first called the stealership and they quoted me $700. I then called two other independent but audi focused shops which oddly both quoted even more. I see on parts geek the starter is now $130 so Im thinking of buying it then having a local shop do this at cost of labor. Im curious to try installing myself but I am not sure how hard it is to do?

Thoughts??

Just curious how long you held the key in the start position for...?

[jdparkes]

About ten seconds max... but multiple multi second attempts

[MonkeyBiz]

About ten seconds max... but multiple multi second attempts

I've held mine down for that long with no poof (I have the no-start issue too).

I'd love to know if the replaced starter permanently fixes your no-start issue. I'm not completely convinced that's the whole problem.

[jdparkes]

From what Ive read its been the root issue for most people. What Im worried about is if I fried a bunch of my wiring.

[93hrdtptt]

I had the burnt wiring issue along with some smoke coming out of the hood, ended up having to replace the ignition wires... Good luck, hopefully ya get everything taken care of without that much cost.

[MonkeyBiz]

From what Ive read its been the root issue for most people. What Im worried about is if I fried a bunch of my wiring.

That's what I've read too. My own personal experience though, I had my clutch and flywheel replaced a couple months ago. Immediately after the repairs, the no-start problem went away...completely. It was amazing. Now it's crept back.

I'm just not convinced it's just the starter yet.