Carbon Build up cleaning??

[AWDTURBO]

I hope this isn't a repost. Another member on the forums brought this up to me today.

[Tanner]

I'm a bit skeptical, especially when I've read of posts on rs246.com where folks tried numerous solvents soaking the intake valves overnight and not making a dent on the crap stuck on the intake valve. I'm guessing it's the carbon buildup that's they're trying to get rid of. If it's just oil sludge on the valves, then I guess this stuff and other things will get rid of it.

Audi apparently blasts the intake valves with walnut shell bits, guess it's strong enough to knock off the stuff but won't damage things.

[AWDTURBO]

Audi has an official fix/cure for this?

How much?

[Tanner]

One of the guys had his 3.2FSI cleaned out at Audi, can't remember what it was but it wasn't exactly cheap though it was covered under warranty. Lucky him.

Official fix? There is none, other than getting the newer FSI engines which has a secondary injector that sprays a tiny amount of fuel on the intake valves (same method that Toyota uses for their direct injection engines).

[Nikoman]

Seafoam doesn't work? I just did my car twice in the last month. I only let it soak for 10-15 minutes and use 3/4 of a bottle per treatment. I haven't actually checked the valves but I'm hoping it does something.

Are you saying treatments do not work on out Audis?

[AWDTURBO]

seafoam does not work with audi ..

[Sales@RAI]

I should have a post up soon. We are offering the exact service noted above. We have all the parts and have had extensive talks with the BG representative about this problem. We also have a borescope with LCD that can capture video to show customers a before and after. If anyone wants this service we are currently offering it in the Mid-Atlantic area

[juggernaut201]

intresteddd^

[AWDTURBO]

How much Clint?

[wootwoot]

Wouldn't methanol injection take care of this?

[AWDTURBO]

Not doing its job. My buddy took his GLI apart and he was running meth and his carbon problem was horrible.

[Tanner]

I should have a post up soon. We are offering the exact service noted above. We have all the parts and have had extensive talks with the BG representative about this problem. We also have a borescope with LCD that can capture video to show customers a before and after. If anyone wants this service we are currently offering it in the Mid-Atlantic area

Not sure the mileage of that car in that video that BG had that folks have seen, but something that would be nice to document would be a high mileage car, so something like an A4 that has gone 50,000 miles or higher, and that the owner hasn't done anything unique to the car in terms of combating this issue (ie.: installation of catch cans) other than following the normal regular maintenance.

[RedS-line]

i have seen this before. a vortex member stated that his car idled and ran better after getting this done. how much would this service cost at the dealership?

[jimrobbington]

I'm over 80k miles, never done anything about the issue, but would love to see if this would make the car run better. Feels like it runs great as is, but that's just what I'm used to. It would be interesting to see how bad it is in there. Someone said that their Audi cleaning was covered under warranty? Too bad I'm nowhere near you Clint....

[Tanner]

Audi will only do the cleaning if it's determined that there are problems. So if you're getting numerous CELs and they can't find anything wrong with the engine, they'll most likely take a closer look at the intake valves and if it's covered in crap then they'll do a cleanup on it I believe (unless they need to get some signoff first from AOA).

The other thing you could try and do is get some pics of the valves themselves. If it's in bad shape, show the info to the service dept and see where you go from there. Of course, if you're still on warranty.

I know a shop here in Toronto offers the BG service, I guess I got nothing to lose, but rather hear from somebody with a high mileage A4 that has used this service before. I'm still a bit skeptical that it can actually remove the carbon deposits but then, for all I know, my valves could be just covered in crap which I doubt as I see all that carbon buildup on my exhaust tips....

[RAI Motorsport]

we tested the bg service extensively at this point. to sum it up quickly this service works better for prevention then it does removal of deposits. for valves that are already contaminated it is still best to manually clean, we have made tools to do this very thoroughly in car. After that the service works perfect for prevention. we have been working directly with BG engineers with this. We also have made our own cocktail that we know is much more potent, but it is too dangerous to catalytic converters. We have been doing this service free for multiple customers to gather the data and modify the service to work better. At this point we have a procedure that is superior to the recommended service BG does.

[Tanner]

Thanks... that clarifies a lot. It seems that folks are thinking that the solution from BG will clean everything but as I suspected, it's more for prevention than as a solution to clean up things.

I think I should go followup with a buddy to see how much it'll cost and what's all involved to get a scope to check out the condition of my engine....

[AWDTURBO]

More info :)

[RAI Motorsport]

i have a ton of more info, dynos, bench flowing, etc... I will post some of this later but not all. We need to keep some of this close to the chest. I do highly recommend integrating this as a normal service to any direct injection car.

[Tanner]

It'll be interesting to see how the newer FSI engines will cope with this problem and that the issue that we're seeing will be limited to the first generation FSI engines.

[AWDTURBO]

i have a ton of more info, dynos, bench flowing, etc... I will post some of this later but not all. We need to keep some of this close to the chest. I do highly recommend integrated this as a normal service to any direct injection car.

I completely understand about keeping things closed up.

I was just wondering because at 20K miles i would be interested in giving my Carbon Build up a nice clean and something like this would save me 8 hrs of physical cleaning lol.

[RAI Motorsport]

ill get clint to add 44k to the website for people to buy. 44k is a fuel additive that helps to soften the carbon buildup. It does this by recirculation of fumes. After one or two treatments it gives the carbon a light gum, or clay type of texture. This aids in the removal.

[SupraBlur]

I've heard about this now on like 5 different forums and yet nobody wants to use any real form of currency to describe how much it costs for the dealership to clean... all I hear is "not cheap" and "it's real expensive". Does anybody have any figure in $USD or is it going to just remain a mystery?

[AWDTURBO]

RAI does this for $150 IIRC

[SupraBlur]

RAI does this for $150 IIRC

So wait, people are freaking out over a $150 service you do every 20-30k miles? Oh good god, sell your cars... someone on 6speedonline was suggesting this as the primary reason that RS4 had plummeting resale value which is clearly BS since the general public isn't even aware of the carbon buildup problem.

[RS4POWER]

I've heard about this now on like 5 different forums and yet nobody wants to use any real form of currency to describe how much it costs for the dealership to clean... all I hear is "not cheap" and "it's real expensive". Does anybody have any figure in $USD or is it going to just remain a mystery?

If you want your valves to be clean the IM needs to be removed and your valves need to soak in a solvent bubble bath. For my RS it was about 3-4 hours to remove and reinstall IM and an hour scrubbing each of the 16 valves. Multiply that times $90 an hour and you got your figure. I have heard from some here that this service done for $700 at some dealerships though. I was never able to confirm that. Ask your local dealers.

The BG treatment will not do anything to an already escalated CB situation. It is good for prevention once cleaned and nothing else. Once the carbon bakes on you have to scrub away. I am sure Clint will attest to that.

[AWDTURBO]

If you want your valves to be clean the IM needs to be removed and your valves need to soak in a solvent bubble bath. For my RS it was about 3-4 hours to remove and reinstall IM and an hour scrubbing each of the 16 valves. Multiply that times $90 an hour and you got your figure. I have heard from some here that this service done for $700 at some dealerships though. I was never able to confirm that. Ask your local dealers.

The BG treatment will not do anything to an already escalated CB situation. It is good for prevention once cleaned and nothing else. Once the carbon bakes on you have to scrub away. I am sure Clint will attest to that.

You are correct!

[RVT]

When it gets down to it, pulling the head is by far the best option. This prevents diluting your oil with solvents, or wedging carbon partials between the piston skirt and cylinder walls.

The vid linked by AWD is about the only example of using the BG product (a very reputable product, by the way) line that may actually work on our cars. The fuel additive, although capable of some cleaning effects isn't allowed to saturate the carbon on the intake valves or runners due to our DI system.

Almost makes me want a spare cylinder head i can clean and swap out every year!

As an "old school" side note from naturally aspirated days, we would take a heated engine and squirt(mist) ice-water down the carb or throttle body. The thermal shock would often break carbon chunks off the valves Ah those simpler times!


Vince

[RedS-line]

I will be getting this service next week. i will post info.

[AWDTURBO]

I will be getting this service next week. i will post info.

where at?

[RedS-line]

think South jersey

[AWDTURBO]

Shop or dealership?

[A4_Eyez]

I've heard about this now on like 5 different forums and yet nobody wants to use any real form of currency to describe how much it costs for the dealership to clean... all I hear is "not cheap" and "it's real expensive". Does anybody have any figure in $USD or is it going to just remain a mystery?

Just called my Audi dealership they quoted me $90 for the BG fuel/air induction cleaning. That's not to bad for dealership pricing so for my 35k this will be done.

[AWDTURBO]

Just called my Audi dealership they quoted me $90 for the BG fuel/air induction cleaning. That's not to bad for dealership pricing so for my 35k this will be done.

what dealership?

[clemsongt]

what dealership?

X2

[B72.0T]

The dealership said they will only take a look at it if I have a CEL, or if my car is running rough...

[A4_Eyez]

what dealership?

Audi of Charlotte a long ways from Jersey.

[RedS-line]

btw got this service done a couple of months ago, at the higher end of the price range. car was running smooth but no power or mileage increase. (actually mileage went down for first tank probably due to idling during the process). car is not as smooth lately but that may be the spark plugs. wish i had the tech take before and after pics of the valves but that wasnt in the cards so i can only hope that it cleaned things up a bit.

[Q5?]

Keep in mind that I'm mechanically challenged.

I had a CEL mid-December. It was on for a week.
Dropped my 07' 3.2 on Thursday at the dealer.
Checked in with my service advisor today and it will be ready tomorrow AM.

They first were going to adjust something the computer. ??
If that didn't work, flush with god knows what. ??

Looks like they went straight to manually cleaning all of the valves and cylinders. Wow, what a hard f'ing job that must have been.

AOA is picking up the tab


They drove an S5 out of the showroom for a test drive.
I love that car!

[Tanner]

It would be interesting if somebody here is able to log the mass airflow before and after a clean. There was a noticeable improvement with the RS4 after the cleaning.

I *think* we could at least have some numbers to copmare with by doing the same test on another car, and hopefully determine if the buildup is as bad as it is or not. Of course it would need to be a proper apples-to-apples comparison.