FAQ: VR6 -12V & 24V Info sharing

[mrbogangles]

So where is the info on the B6 swap because I'm seriously thinking about doing this swap because my motor is getting old (140K) and I don't want another 4 banger. I have all the supporting mods and would love to have a VR in my car.

Originally Posted by ImageX View Post
has a swap for the b6 chassis been tried before???

Yes
not completed yet

in the works

[andream88]

I am way more in depth into this swap than Issam was. The mount bracket you see in the picture fits, the other side isnt even close. Issam has a toureg block in his car so it is tabbed different than any other VR motor. You WILL have crazy problems with this swap i guarantee. I have only gotten this far because im working on the car in my friends shop, and he is there to help me fab parts as we go. You may get the motor to sit in the bay, if you can make the one mount, but it doesnt clear the hood, rad support must be hacked, hood latch doesnt fit, etc.. Listen to what im saying, im sharing this info before you guys get in too deep in a swap you probably cant pull off. I hope you have deep pockets, or good friends like me.

so is a Touareg block a direct fit on OEM S4 mounts?

[Mrsfourrings]

What is the issue with putting in a 12v VR6 motor and retaining a/c?? It seems that there should be a way to accomplish this.

[NYCVR6]

so is a Touareg block a direct fit on OEM S4 mounts?

You will be able to use the mount brackets Issam can supply on both sides, but the passenger side one will need modification (welding and drilling) to work. Any other block will need a custom mount on the passenger side. The oem s4 mounts arent the issue, the mount brackets are..

[NYCVR6]

Just figured out how to clear the hood. This week we will pill the s4 motor mounts out and shorten them by an inch and a half and re-weld them.

[andream88]

You will be able to use the mount brackets Issam can supply on both sides, but the passenger side one will need modification (welding and drilling) to work. Any other block will need a custom mount on the passenger side. The oem s4 mounts arent the issue, the mount brackets are..

sorry my fault.
I meant mount brackets....

[NYCVR6]

sorry my fault.
I meant mount brackets....

Right, you can use the oem mounts, but you have to get different mount brackets/make your own. There is nothing direct bolt in or easy about this swap is basically what i wanted to share.

[NYEuroTuner]

NYC, How are you keeping the "dash" happy ? Meaning how are you going to keep the dash from having lights flashing galore?

Are you keeping the S4 ECU? or are you De-pinning and re wiring?


Mechanically speaking , or fabing I dont mind, but just curious how you are going to be running this car eletronically.

[MyTunes]

I thought I read on one of these pages that the vr6 wiring is similar to the A4.
So is there then a possability of using an A4 harness and Ecu?

Would be perfect I suppose if your swapping into an a4 to

I imagine the cluster would still work over can-bus or could also be swapped with an a4.

Thoughts?

[wdbdy2000s4]

Idk the pic issam posted shows it sitting pretty well, I think he was using our S4 mounts, NYCVR6 you seem to be using larger mounts..?


I hope Issam can come in here and give his 2 cents, I dont want to have any crazy problems with this swap...lol

If Justin's having issues, 99% chance that you will too. He's been around s4's for a long time and has done some pretty impressive builds if you look at his history around here. Even Chris Green had some issues with fitment if you remember his thread and he has full fabrication abilities at his shop. I'd love to see more people get this done though.

[MyTunes]

If Justin's having issues, 99% chance that you will too. He's been around s4's for a long time and has done some pretty impressive builds if you look at his history around here. Even Chris Green had some issues with fitment if you remember his thread and he has full fabrication abilities at his shop. I'd love to see more people get this done though.

It does certainly sound appealing...

[JBM]

in the works

That's pretty vague. I mean I would like to know if I can keep the A/C with the B6 and what blocks I can actually run with this. I'm looking at the 24V with all the necessary equipments and a 30 series.

[wdbdy2000s4]

That's pretty vague. I mean I would like to know if I can keep the A/C with the B6 and what blocks I can actually run with this. I'm looking at the 24V with all the necessary equipments and a 30 series.

if it fits in a b5 then it will fit in a b6. As you've seen, the mounting brackets will need to be altered or customized for either chassis, but the VR will easily fit in a b6 bay...making it stay there and run strong will take some work but it's not much harder then a b5 by any means. get wrenching kid.

[NYCVR6]

NYC, How are you keeping the "dash" happy ? Meaning how are you going to keep the dash from having lights flashing galore?

Are you keeping the S4 ECU? or are you De-pinning and re wiring?


Mechanically speaking , or fabing I dont mind, but just curious how you are going to be running this car eletronically.

As long as you have a full fabrication shop on hand you should be fine, this is [retty much a custom swap. I am running Vi-Pec V88 for engine management, and will leave the factory ecu in to keep the dash working for the most part. Not like the factory tach will be able to keep up with the rpm's though..

[NYCVR6]

If Justin's having issues, 99% chance that you will too. He's been around s4's for a long time and has done some pretty impressive builds if you look at his history around here. Even Chris Green had some issues with fitment if you remember his thread and he has full fabrication abilities at his shop. I'd love to see more people get this done though.

Yup, i have also built a 670whp gti, full 12 pt cage, chute, etc.. Doing this isnt too far off building a full race car..

[NYEuroTuner]

As long as you have a full fabrication shop on hand you should be fine, this is [retty much a custom swap. I am running Vi-Pec V88 for engine management, and will leave the factory ecu in to keep the dash working for the most part. Not like the factory tach will be able to keep up with the rpm's though..

Will you be able to pass inspection via OB2 Port?

[NYCVR6]

Will you be able to pass inspection via OB2 Port?

No.. To be able to pull this swap and pass inspection will be nothing short of a miracle in my opinion. Im sure ill figure out a way to get a sticker though.

[Wizard-of-OD]

Ok I am here
Sorry everyone for the delay in replying.

I hope Issam can come in here and give his 2 cents, I dont want to have any crazy problems with this swap...lol

I make it clear to anyone that is willing to do the swap that is not going to be easy.I am working with Justin right now to get the issues he has resolved...

It seems there are more variances than I anticipated but Justin is one of those guys that gets the job done so I am going to do what I can from my end.

Next up,lowering the motor an inch or so with custom mounts for the engine and transmission.

I just cant wait for this to be done,man you can almost hear the giggling in Justin's voice....

[skele4door]

Ok I am here
Sorry everyone for the delay in replying.

I make it clear to anyone that is willing to do the swap that is not going to be easy.I am working with Justin right now to get the issues he has resolved...

It seems there are more variances than I anticipated but Justin is one of those guys that gets the job done so I am going to do what I can from my end.

Next up,lowering the motor an inch or so with custom mounts for the engine and transmission.

I just cant wait for this to be done,man you can almost hear the giggling in Justin's voice....

Are you planning on making custom motor mounts and using the OEM brackets, or making custom brackets to work with the stock size mounts? I don't know about everyone else, but losing the bulky stock motor mounts for something simpler would be a good idea IMOHO.

[NYCVR6]

Ok I am here
Sorry everyone for the delay in replying.

I make it clear to anyone that is willing to do the swap that is not going to be easy.I am working with Justin right now to get the issues he has resolved...

It seems there are more variances than I anticipated but Justin is one of those guys that gets the job done so I am going to do what I can from my end.

Next up,lowering the motor an inch or so with custom mounts for the engine and transmission.

I just cant wait for this to be done,man you can almost hear the giggling in Justin's voice....

I am excited, but it has proven to be more of a task than i expected. You know im not afraid on this, just not what i planned to deal with. I will post as we move along.

[Wizard-of-OD]

You know im not afraid on this.

Oh I know...
anyone else would have parted out there S4 and moved onto a Mitsubishi....

But thats what happens when you come from a 10S past

[NYEuroTuner]

Issam, are you going to be offering parts so this can be a true bolt on, or is everyone who is going to be doing this swap have to get Fab work done to get the motor mounts and other issues Justin had resolved??

[GURUMAN]

I really dont think you will ever be able to call this bolt on ...

[Wizard-of-OD]

I really dont think you will ever be able to call this bolt on ...

At some point it will be but it depends what the user is willing to give up Dom.
You should know this better than anyone.

[NYCVR6]

I really dont think you will ever be able to call this bolt on ...

This is the truth.

[Mrsfourrings]

What is the issue about not being able to run A/C? I
was going to use a 97 A4 1.8T car I have the 12v VR6 and was wondering why people say you can't run/plum a/c-do I need a 24v compressor?
Thanks for any help you can shed on this issue for me!

[zx6r1033]

What is the issue about not being able to run A/C? I
was going to use a 97 A4 1.8T car I have the 12v VR6 and was wondering why people say you can't run/plum a/c-do I need a 24v compressor?
Thanks for any help you can shed on this issue for me!

It's already been said like 100 times in this thread... one of the A/C mounts on the 12v block needs to be used as a motor mount.

[wdbdy2000s4]

funny how this went from a "no brainer swap," to a lot of custom fab work...I hope that there aren't people who got in over their heads.

[Papa Stone]

I believe that this swap is not going to be easy and not for everyone. Also my car is not my daily driver, and I have the patience and the shop to do it.. Is a great alternative if your in my situation.

Anyway I am waiting for others to finish it and see what the modifications are so I can address them as they come. I like the uniqueness of this project

[Wizard-of-OD]

It's already been said like 100 times in this thread... one of the A/C mounts on the 12v block needs to be used as a motor mount.

Where the A/C bracket BOLTS to the Motor,those are the boses you will use to build a bracket from on the 12V block.

funny how this went from a "no brainer swap," to a lot of custom fab work...I hope that there aren't people who got in over their heads.

I am going to address this once and then leave it after this.If you are looking for big power it is still worth it do the VR6 Swap.I make it clear that this is not for everyone and if you are worried about a little cutting or trimming then go with TiAL turbo kits as this is not for you.

[MarksB5S4]

looks good keep up the work cant wait to see that thing move

[NYEuroTuner]

Issam, keep your line open, I'm gonna give you a call later on.

[zx6r1033]

funny how this went from a "no brainer swap," to a lot of custom fab work...I hope that there aren't people who got in over their heads.

Yeah, I was actually thinking the same thing. It went from appearing to be a relatively straight forward swap to looking like quite a substantial bit of work. I was all for doing the swap until I PMed Issam about it a week or two ago. Now I am probably going to just go with Tial 650s.

[NYEuroTuner]

Yeah, I was actually thinking the same thing. It went from appearing to be a relatively straight forward swap to looking like quite a substantial bit of work. I was all for doing the swap until I PMed Issam about it a week or two ago. Now I am probably going to just go with Tial 650s.

Well if you think about it, it is still a bolt on swap...If you use 034's race engine cradle, the same cradle that's used in their time attack car.

But using their race cradle wont let you use AC. etc (or am I wrong?), and using the factory engine brackets give you more flexibility..

And I know it was assumed that the 24v can use the factory engine brackets without any modding, but even now knowing it will need modding, I still dont mind. I'm sure I can bust issams chops to make me some mounts/brackets.


My only worry is the electrical, but I am working with Issam currently to erase those issues. :)

[NYCVR6]

Well if you think about it, it is still a bolt on swap...If you use 034's race engine cradle, the same cradle that's used in their time attack car.

But using their race cradle wont let you use AC. etc (or am I wrong?), and using the factory engine brackets give you more flexibility..

And I know it was assumed that the 24v can use the factory engine brackets without any modding, but even now knowing it will need modding, I still dont mind. I'm sure I can bust issams chops to make me some mounts/brackets.


My only worry is the electrical, but I am working with Issam currently to erase those issues.

The mount bracket doesnt needed to be modified, you have to make the passenger side one yourself. That is a minor problem compared to other things... Wait till you see how much of the rad support you have to hack to clear the pulleys, try fitting sufficient fans in the little space you have, modify the s4 mounts themselves the exact amount, and still have to hammer the shit out of the subframe so the starter fits.. I am dead serious when i say this swap done well is almost like building a full race car. Youll need to install hoop pins to keep the hood shut as well. The list is huge, we havent even touched some things yet.. Like making the water lines, exhaust (should be easy), ac lines, power steering lines, etc.. My car will be done next week because i have the guy coming to wire it up.. So ill post as things come together.

[NYEuroTuner]

My car will be done next week because i have the guy coming to wire it up.. So ill post as things come together.

Having you close by will def be a big advantage for me, get ready for a crap load of questions from me once your S is ready. lol

[NYCVR6]

Having you close by will def be a big advantage for me, get ready for a crap load of questions from me once your S is ready. lol

haha i figured this much.

[NYCVR6]

Got some other things accomplished yesterday.. Posting pics in a minute.. Car should be done this week and ready for wiring.

[NYCVR6]

Making intake manifold

Nice velocity stacks

Modified valve cover.. Oil filler neck removed, and a new one welded to rear. 2 fittings for breather installed.. Some paint to keep it fresh.

[wdbdy2000s4]

looking good