cayenne brake upgrade ???? what rotors????

[canadianA4B7]

So these have been on for a few months now, also got a set of S4 300mm rears installed onto my car. Bed them in as per most of the suggested bed in procedures. Im using the HPS pads and now they squeel like crazy but only under light braking. 20km/h or less im assuming i need that alternate brake pad squeel goop (red stuff dont know the name). Any thing else or buy some alternate pads and just see what make less noise?

Ive also tried doing a number of hard stops. Odly enough hard stops make no noise at all what so ever. I guess ill just have to live w it?

Last thing. Sometimes when i release the brakes it sounds like you can kinda hear them opening? Is that my brake cylinder on its way out?

[Timtheguru]

So these have been on for a few months now, also got a set of S4 300mm rears installed onto my car. Bed them in as per most of the suggested bed in procedures. Im using the HPS pads and now they squeel like crazy but only under light braking. 20km/h or less im assuming i need that alternate brake pad squeel goop (red stuff dont know the name). Any thing else or buy some alternate pads and just see what make less noise?

Ive also tried doing a number of hard stops. Odly enough hard stops make no noise at all what so ever. I guess ill just have to live w it?

Last thing. Sometimes when i release the brakes it sounds like you can kinda hear them opening? Is that my brake cylinder on its way out?

You need goop, and that's it. The squealing that is heard from brakes is typically a metal on metal vibration, so the goop or brake lube will most likely fix your issue. Light braking would cause more of the vibrations that cause this kind of noise than hard braking where a lot of force is pushing on the pads.

[canadianA4B7]

You need goop, and that's it. The squealing that is heard from brakes is typically a metal on metal vibration, so the goop or brake lube will most likely fix your issue. Light braking would cause more of the vibrations that cause this kind of noise than hard braking where a lot of force is pushing on the pads.

Ok thanx. It seems to only be front right side. But i hear you on getting the goop. Ive called hawk in the mean time as a few performance shops have said i may have got a set that was "off the back of a truck" thanx random online retailer selling for cheap. But im gonna buy the goop and see how that goes first. If hawk wants to send me a free set im up for that aswell.

[Austonwerner4]

[jbain2]

^ are those the A7 rotors?

[Austonwerner4]

^ are those the A7 rotors?

ML55 AMG

[jbain2]

^ you mentioned in a previous post about trying the A7 or S5. Just wondering if those were them. Thanks.

[Austonwerner4]

^ you mentioned in a previous post about trying the A7 or S5. Just wondering if those were them. Thanks.

I was planning on it, and still might
But I just wanted to get something that I know fit so I can worry about one less thing when trying to finish my car.

[gmdiluca]

What pads are you running?

[Austonwerner4]

Ebc yellow.

[LINDW4LL]

I've been doing some research on the TT-RS brakes and found something interesting.

The TTRS has a 25.4mm master cylinder, the same as the B5 S4, B6/B7 A4. It' has 4-piston Brembo F40 calipers, and the total piston area is ~5554mm. The total area for the 18Z caliper is ~5497mm.

I know that in the past some Brembo/AP/Stoptech fanboys have made a big deal about the piston area of the Cayenne caliper area being "way too large" for the S4s stock master cylinder. Obviously the rest of us know these work perfectly fine, just thought it was interesting to see that the piston area is actually less less than the OEM has on their cars with the same MC size.

[gmdiluca]

So I went to track the other day to do some lapping…. get home and wash my car and I notice the brake dust is BAKED into my freshly Powder coated 18Z!!!! Very disappointed. any idea if this can be cleaned off or not and how? figured id post here since this is the most visited Cayenne bbk thread and most are powder coated.

[Timtheguru]

So I went to track the other day to do some lapping…. get home and wash my car and I notice the brake dust is BAKED into my freshly Powder coated 18Z!!!! Very disappointed. any idea if this can be cleaned off or not and how? figured id post here since this is the most visited Cayenne bbk thread and most are powder coated.

Soak with simple green. Switch to ceramic pads.

[gmdiluca]

Soak with simple green. Switch to ceramic pads.

I was under the impression most race pad compounds are metallic based though?

[gmdiluca]

Ok so this is what I have to deal with. I've tried Sonax and Grime Off to little effect. Any suggestions for a harsher solvent? I'm gonna pull off the wheels and start scrubbing with a tooth brush.

Anyone experience this before?

[bobkatkat]

So I went to track the other day to do some lapping…. get home and wash my car and I notice the brake dust is BAKED into my freshly Powder coated 18Z!!!! Very disappointed. any idea if this can be cleaned off or not and how? figured id post here since this is the most visited Cayenne bbk thread and most are powder coated.

Most powder coating has a softening temp of 80C and a melting temp of 150C. High heat paint for calipers are good for at least 500C even in a rattle can. None of the 18z are powder coated at the factory. Very few OEM calipers have PC. Hard Baked Painted any day over PC. Brembo calipers come painted, not powder coated, from the factory.

[Audimilo]

Most powder coating has a softening temp of 80C and a melting temp of 150C. High heat paint for calipers are good for at least 500C even in a rattle can. None of the 18z are powder coated at the factory. Very few OEM calipers have PC. Hard Baked Painted any day over PC. Brembo calipers come painted, not powder coated, from the factory.

^ Good insight right there for those deciding btw PC and Paint.

[LINDW4LL]

Very few OEM calipers have PC. Hard Baked Painted any day over PC. Brembo calipers come painted, not powder coated, from the factory.

Yep. All high end Brembos are painted. I believe powder coating also traps more heat inside the caliper compared to paint, leading to higher fluid temps.

Of course, for people who just want a durable finish for street driving, powder coating is a good choice.

[gmdiluca]

Most powder coating has a softening temp of 80C and a melting temp of 150C. High heat paint for calipers are good for at least 500C even in a rattle can. None of the 18z are powder coated at the factory. Very few OEM calipers have PC. Hard Baked Painted any day over PC. Brembo calipers come painted, not powder coated, from the factory.

Great advice! but I was trying to say a lot of people rebuilding these callipers are PC them not saying they come PC from the factory.
Looks like they are gonna have to come off to be painted properly that way I can look good at shows and track her now and then. (wish I knew this earlier)

Thanks for the help! I'm still open to suggestions for cleanings these things because they aren't coming off to be painted until the winter...

[bobkatkat]

Great advice! but I was trying to say a lot of people rebuilding these callipers are PC them not saying they come PC from the factory.
Looks like they are gonna have to come off to be painted properly that way I can look good at shows and track her now and then. (wish I knew this earlier)

Thanks for the help! I'm still open to suggestions for cleanings these things because they aren't coming off to be painted until the winter...

Most likely the brake dust has fixed itself to the PC. You could try rubbing compound or scratch remover and buff. Maybe hit it with some clear caliper paint after you get it cleaned up to keep it from happening again until you can remove the PC and paint.

[Austonwerner4]

Can someone take a picture the brake pad sensor plig thats on the car?

[jeffreyk]

Has one run or test fitted the S5 brake rotors with 18z calipers?

I'm thinking of the ECS 2-piece S5 rotors, but don't want to spend $500 to find out they don't fit… By the numbers they should be a bolt on upgrade with the 18z. No grinding or cutting anywhere. Just 30mm wide instead of 32.

Jeff

[LINDW4LL]

Has one run or test fitted the S5 brake rotors with 18z calipers?

I'm thinking of the ECS 2-piece S5 rotors, but don't want to spend $500 to find out they don't fit… By the numbers they should be a bolt on upgrade with the 18z. No grinding or cutting anywhere. Just 30mm wide instead of 32.

Jeff

They should work fine, my friend was going to confirm but he was rushed and just bought ML55. But if anything they'd only be off by a millimeter or two (offset). They should be good.

Are the ECS rotors not returnable? You could always buy a cheap S4/S5 rotor on RockAuto and test fit that, and then return it.


Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk

[JTown77]

So I am late to the bb upgrade party, I have read many of the threads but have found little con consensus...

With 17z I am better off with the volvo v70r rotors? No track use, longevity and warp are the greatest concern.

[LINDW4LL]

Yes, the Volvo rotors are the best choice.


Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk

[ajax1976]

Been running 18zs for 18mths and still love them but my only issue is the offset of the wheel required to clear them. Does anybody know if the RS4 set up is a little bit slimmer??

I've searched and searched but found no conclusive answers, I only really need an extra few mm clearance.

[bobkatkat]

Been running 18zs for 18mths and still love them but my only issue is the offset of the wheel required to clear them. Does anybody know if the RS4 set up is a little bit slimmer??

I've searched and searched but found no conclusive answers, I only really need an extra few mm clearance.

Take a look at this graphic from my earlier post. It all depends on the rotor. I had much more clearance on the GL550 rotors than with my current AMG ml55 rotors. GL were 4 mm further inboard that MLs. That translated to about 7 mm more of wheel spoke clearance. Next rotors i will look for a taller hat again. I used high quality large stainless steel washers as shims to move caliper in with the rotor.

[ElementR]

FWIW - I intended to go with an 18Z setup, but after checking sizing with the template from ECS, I learned that the 18Z calipers would interfere with not only the spokes (which a small 3-5mm spacer would fix) but also the inner barrel of the wheel. I have B7 ('06-'08) style 18x8" RS4 reps on my car. For whatever reason, the ID of these wheels must run small for an 18" wheel. The caliper would clearly interfere by 2-3mm with the inner barrel and I'm positive the template was printed to the correct scale (I measured to confirm) and placed accordingly on the wheel (verified with ECS). So, I decided to pick-up a set of 17Z calipers and buy a set of 330mm S60R rotors (ironically, I also own an S60R). This ought to work since the 17Z and 18Z calipers are basically the same aside from the 18Z sitting about 10mm further outboard in order to clear the 350mm rotor. I would have preferred the look of the larger rotor, but it's not worth swapping wheels to me.

[LINDW4LL]

Take a look at this graphic from my earlier post. It all depends on the rotor. I had much more clearance on the GL550 rotors than with my current AMG ml55 rotors. GL were 4 mm further inboard that MLs. That translated to about 7 mm more of wheel spoke clearance. Next rotors i will look for a taller hat again. I used high quality large stainless steel washers as shims to move caliper in with the rotor.

I don't understand what you're getting at. The caliper is fixed to the upright/knuckle. Wheel clearance has nothing to do with the rotor, unless you're modifying the caliper to fit said rotor.

[Austonwerner4]

I would also take the 3.5lbs weight saving from the Ml55

[bobkatkat]

I don't understand what you're getting at. The caliper is fixed to the upright/knuckle. Wheel clearance has nothing to do with the rotor, unless you're modifying the caliper to fit said rotor.

Not sure where zillarobs quote went to?? Yes the caliper is fixed to the upright but just like a lot of aftermarket BBKs like Wilwoods that come with shims to help center the caliper on the rotor for different applications you can use shims (in this case stainless steel washers) to shim between the caliper and the upright. That moves the caliper inboard so you can use a taller hat rotor. You can actually get caliper shims(washers) at most speed shops. http://www.summitracing.com/int/sear...-caliper-shims I even have my MLs slightly shimmed but that is just to perfectly center on the rotor.

one thing to note is the taller the hat the more you may have to grind off the upright for clearance of the rotor. I took a significant amount off my aluminum uprights but now I would be able to put a rotor with a 10mm taller hat.

[zillarob]

Ninjas?

Missed the part about the shims on the first glance.

[ajax1976]

Take a look at this graphic from my earlier post. It all depends on the rotor. I had much more clearance on the GL550 rotors than with my current AMG ml55 rotors. GL were 4 mm further inboard that MLs. That translated to about 7 mm more of wheel spoke clearance. Next rotors i will look for a taller hat again. I used high quality large stainless steel washers as shims to move caliper in with the rotor.

Sorry it's taken me a while to update this and thanks for the info. Going from your image I took a gamble and went for the S5 rotors, a shade bit lighter and was only really needing an extra mm clearance. Good news is they fit a treat, no need to open the centre bore, clear the uprights fine and the retaining screw hole even lines up. I used washers to space the caliper inwards making making sure I got the rotor centralised in the caliper and all seems good so fitted a thinner wheel spacer. The rotors are a bit thinner than the MLs so might have to carefull when the pads get to the end of the their life as the pistons might extend out to far. Not sure of the specs of the caliper/pistons so this may or may not be an issue but thought I should make others aware just in case. For me personally it won't be, don't do that many miles and always messing about with the car so can keep an eye on it.

Rotors look just crap in the pictures as I've not quite worn the black protective coating off them yet.

Thanks again for the replies and advice.

[s4silver1]

Can someone confirm that these are the correct brake lines for the 17z's? This part number was posted earlier but I can't find confirmation anywhere. Too many pages in this thread.

http://www.amazon.com/StopTech-950-3...ype=automotive

[LINDW4LL]

Can someone confirm that these are the correct brake lines for the 17z's? This part number was posted earlier but I can't find confirmation anywhere. Too many pages in this thread.

YGPM. Those will work fine but I'd personally go with the RS4 ones that use the 90 degree. Really doesn't matter.

[Renga]

My Rotors are wearing thin..
Anyone no where to find rotors 352X32mm that fit´s ECS Tuning Stage 4 S4 BBK bell house?
Any recommendation on other rotors to buy? JHM 350X32mm?

[bobkatkat]

My Rotors are wearing thin..
Anyone no where to find rotors 352X32mm that fit´s ECS Tuning Stage 4 S4 BBK bell house?
Any recommendation on other rotors to buy? JHM 350X32mm?

Girodisc

[Renga]

Can get this in Europe, will it fit?



•350mm Diameter
•32mm Thick
•12 Bolts
•60mm Pad
•8 PCD
•Bolt Centre: 203.2mm (8″)
•11lbs


Anyone have measurement from ECS Bellhouse?
And the PCD of the Bolt holes ... eye of the bolt hole straight across?

[ChicagosPhantom]

Bringing this to life...K...
I was in a process of rebuilding 18Z calipers that were sand blasted first.
Now problem that occurred is that the last one,the biggest piston is in two pieces.When I tried to remove it top portion separated,like a hat,from main part the piston itself...is this normal?
I'll include few pics so you know what I'm talking about.Any input would be appreciated.


Really didn't try to get other side off to compare,because I didn't want to risk getting dust boots teared as I didn't have extra ones.But I do belive I would notice that others are the same as this one.Literally this one almost doesn't take any effort to get it separated...
Sorry abut my english,it's my second language,I'm doing my best to explain.
Thanks in advance.

[LINDW4LL]

Bringing this to life...K...
I was in a process of rebuilding 18Z calipers that were sand blasted first.
Now problem that occurred is that the last one,the biggest piston is in two pieces.When I tried to remove it top portion separated,like a hat,from main part the piston itself...is this normal?

I've never seen that happen first hand, but I know they are phenolic pistons- the top is a different material which is supposed to prevent heat transfer to the brake fluid. If you Google you can find instances of them coming apart.

A resin is used to hold the phenolic portion to the aluminum body I believe. Not sure if you can repair that yourself or not, or if it would be wise to do so.

Which piston is it that came apart? 18Z are 30 / 34 / 38. Centric stocks some replacements at cheap prices depending on what size it is.