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  1. #1
    Veteran Member Four Rings NOTORIOUS VR's Avatar
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    Tuning your Motronic ECU (ME7.1)

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    **************************************
    I feel I need to amend this thread with a final few points.

    While this thread was good to gather some info and get the ball rolling, most if not all the current and new information is now located on the NefMoto forum and the S4 Wiki.

    Links:

    http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php

    http://www.s4wiki.com/


    Truth be told I don't have the time nor is it worth it to maintain a thread like this, because information becomes very scattered.

    Also I would like to ask that people stop PM'ing me about getting them tunes, or tuning their cars for them. This is not something that I offer to the public. I don't have time to tune your car. If and when I decide to release my tunes I will do so.

    The whole purpose of this thread is to get people started with learning how to be able to tune their ME7 ECU. It's not here to save you $1000 so you can get some novice tuner to possibly blow up your car. I would like to remind people just because you have the knowledge to change things inside an ECU doesn't mean you should!
    **************************************


    So since I'm now the owner of an S4, and am now very interested in keeping everything as stock as possible as far as engine controls goes, I've gotten back into researching information on what tools are needed to gain access to the ECU program/flash and decoding the information in it to modify the tune and send it back to the ECU. Known as "chip tuning".

    Of course the sad reality is that in the European automotive world, many things are kept a secret due to greedy tuners and business while other enthusiasts of many Japanese cars get to enjoy the ability to do what we want to do for many years now thanks to many smart people that work together to just make it work. Not to say there isn't people out there for the Japanese that don't continue to develop to make money off of it because there is, but in the end there are enough tools (hardware and software) available for you to tune your car yourself on a very acceptable budget.

    So, onwards it goes... I've been crawling the web to get as much information as possible as to how to tune these 'pesky' ECU's and finding the right tools takes a lot of time (and sometimes money).

    I would like to know if anyone else here has been able to gather any information for our ECU's. I know tuning isn't for everyone, and while many people 'want' to tune themselves, many shouldn't unless they're really willing to learn an in depth process.

    So far I have found a slew of programs for various VAG cars, some I was able to find for free, others I paid for. Hardware such as KWP2000 cables are obviously something you'll have to buy but are not going to break the bank.

    I'm tired of this all being a secret. Everyone should have the option to tune their own cars for a reasonable amount of money if they choose to put enough work into it. And I'm sure many others feel the same way.

    ************************************************** **********

    So far I have acquired the following programs that seem to be used to edit/find maps and various other things pertaining to VAG cars:

    -WinOLS (HEX based map editing that will allow you to display them in various ways, will auto find maps but not tell you what they are. There are files called DAMOS files which are 'key' files which contain the info to reveal maps in WinOLS and other tuning software)

    -Galletto (allows the reading and writing of flashes/files to and from the ECU using a KWP2000 cable. So yes you can 'copy' entire ECU's this way.)

    -VAG EEPROM Programmer (not quite sure yet, seems like this software lets you directly HEX edit the program in the ECU (be it for mileage changes or otherwise related to tuning)

    -KWP2000/KWP2000-ME7 (Flashing of KWP2000 protocol ECU's - ie. Motronic)

    -ECM2001 (Tuning of ECU files, checksum correction, plotting of graphs etc. I've read that this software is out dated and is not the best to use, but it will allow you to 'find' maps and possibly even have something similar to DAMOS files where it already knows and points out what areas of the maps do what)

    -ECUFix (allows the correction of checksums of edited flashes so the ECU will accept the files and run them).

    Programs

    Here is a .rar file that has the programs (KWP2000 & TunerPro) and a stock M-box ROM and the M-box .xdf file.

    http://www.vaglinks.com/Downloads/S4_tuning.rar

    Back up link
    S4 tuning.rar - 2.13MB

    ************************************************** **************-

    Basic MAP location information in regards to basic tuning (thanks to Nyet for the info and NorCalS4 for putting it together):

    MAP DESCRIPTIONS

    FUEL

    "Conversion of relative fuel mass (rk) to effective injector on time (te)" - primary fueling

    "Desired Lambda for component protection" - requested lambda for component protection when calculated EGT is above "EGT threshold for component protection" (may require a lower "EGT threshold for component protection" if your MAF is not 100% compensated for in "Linearization of MAF voltage")

    "Lambda - driver desired" - requested lambda when calculated EGT is below "EGT threshold for component protection"

    BOOST

    "Engine load desired" - specified load

    "LDR altitude limitation (maximum pressure ratio)" - maximum requested pressure ratio

    "Maximum specified load" - maximum specified load

    "Maximum specified load IAT correction factor map" - IAT correction for maximum specified load

    TIMING

    "Ignition angle map"/"Ignition angle map (variant 2)" - primary timing maps. (ME7.1 has a two point variable cam timing system; there is a table for each cam timing state)

    MAF

    "Linearization of MAF voltage" - compensating for MAF housing diameter (note-sometime when selecting this table in tunerpro, the program crashes)
    Last edited by NOTORIOUS VR; 01-11-2012 at 09:44 AM.
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  2. #2
    Veteran Member Four Rings NOTORIOUS VR's Avatar
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    Re: Tuning your Motronic ECU (ME7.1)

    Bosch Motorsport Technical PDFs!

    I think I might have just hit the motherload... I came to thinking recently that I remember about a little over a year ago seeing a Bosch Motorsports ECU which looks almost IDENTICAL to the ECU's found in our cars (and many other newer VAG cars for that matter). So I started digging with google, etc and asking a few people some questions... Well.. Seems like Bosch has recently made the software and documentation for these ECU's openly available! I doubt the software can be used to tune 'our' ECU's, BUT the documentation itself is worth it's weight in digital paper ;)

    On to the good stuff...

    -------------------------------
    Bosch Motorsport - Software page:

    http://www.bosch-motorsport.de/conte...0B325307803A8C

    I am choosing not to hotlink directly the files from here as there is no need to upset anyone @ Bosch :)

    But I downloaded the MS 4 Sport Turbo Installation CD which is approx 80MB

    It will install everything you need to program the ECU's along with some very interesting PDF documents! All the code words/short names of ALL the Bosch ECU's functions. If anyone has read the .XLS files posted in nyet's webserver (http://nyet.org/cars/files) you'll notice these 'short names' in column A.

    I'm going to update more as I fiddle with the software and read some more.

    -------------------------------------------------

    Aug. 27/09:
    New info... So I decided to compare a tuned M-BOX ECU from a big name tuner to a stock M-BOX ECU and here are the following maps that were modified (pump gas tune as car as I can tell). I'm VERY surprised that no timing changes were made which kind of explains as to why my other tuned ECU seems a lot smoother and more aggressive.

    PLEASE NOTE: I'm not suggesting that all of these maps NEED to be modified, I'm just listing what I have compared between a tuned ECU and a stock ECU. I have withheld the tuners name due to obvious reasons

    MAPS MODIFIED M-BOX vs. STOCK M-BOX ECU:
    ----------------------------------------------
    Engine Load Desired (KFMIRL)
    Lambda map at partial load (KFLF)
    Max. engine speed on speed signal error detection (automatic?) (NMAXDVG)
    Time for LDR overboost active (TLDOBAN) -- All zeroed out --
    Maximum load at E_ldo LDR (overboost error) (LDORXN) -- All set to max 191.25 --
    LDR pressure limit at too high engine temp (LDPBN) -- All set to max 2550.00 --
    rl threshhold for slow LDR-intervention (adaptation) (RLKRLDA) -- All set to max 191.25 --
    LDR I-regulator limit (FFLDIMX)
    Optinal engine torque map (KFMIOP)
    Maximum specified load/boost pressure (LDRXN_1_A)
    Maximum specified load/boost pressure during knock (LDRXNZK) -- All set to 99 --
    Max vehicle speed (VAVMX/VMAX)
    Max relative indicated torque under open throttle body (RLVMXN) -- Set to 181.50 to all bins --
    Max relative indicated torque under open throttle body and SU (RLVSMXN) -- Set to 181.50 to all bins --
    Upper load curve for DKAT active (RLDKTSO_0_A)
    Hot start enrichment factor (KFHSTT)
    Starting torque (KFMDST_0_A)
    Exhaust backpressure correction of the secondary air mass (KFFMSML_0_A)
    Characteristic curve for tmot, upper rL control limit for controller before Kat (RLLRTMO)
    Characteristic curve for continuous limit value control (fr) (FQTEFR)
    Afterstart enrich (FNSA_0_A)
    Afterstart enrich (FNSA_1_A)

    Constants changed:
    -----------------------------------------------
    Ramp slope during devation regulation of ASR-torque (RAMPASR)
    Debounce time for end of cat heater cycles per min during idle (TKHLLAB)
    Debounce time for setting of cycle flags (TDDHBKV)
    Min. airmass for diagnosis condition (MLWDSLMN)
    Wait time for delta-TV diagnosis (DLSA) ready-flag (TWDDTV)
    Airmass threshold for dynamic testing behind cat (MLLASH)
    Tank ventilation time for basic adaption (TTEGA)
    Pressure gradient factor during evacuation of the brake booster via electrical pump (DPBKVEVKEP)
    Factor for calculating min. pump pressure dependent on ambient pressure (FBKVP)
    Maximum engine speed on speed signal error detection (NMAXDV) -- Set to MAX engine speed --
    Maximum airflow for load calculation following SAE J1979 (MLMAX)
    Supplemental codeword: short strip requirements display group 195 (CWFA195A)

    --------------------------------------------------
    M-Box Map definitions somewhat translated by me:


    Quote Originally Posted by the dog View Post
    Inverses Pedalkennfeld fĂŒr FGR-Betrieb (KFWPFGR) 12x16 (%) - Inverse Pedal recognition for FGR??-Activation
    Kennfeld normierter Massenstrom ĂŒber DK (KFMSNWDK) 6x16 (has km/hour and % )
    Lambdakennfeld bei Teillast (KFLF) 12x16 (%) - Lambda values by half throttle
    Kennfeld fĂŒr Drosselklappen-Sollwinkel (KFWDKMSN) 6x16 (has km/hour and % ) - Values for Throttle body angle target
    Kennfeld Meßfensteranfang Klopfregelung (KFMAKR) 4x16 (%)
    vorgesteuerter Dynamikvorhalt (KFDYMNT) 8x16 (C)
    Lastdynamikerkennungsschwelle (KFDYES) 6x16 (%) - Dynamic Load recognition threshold
    Dynamikvorhalt Erkennungsschwelle (KFDYRS) 6x16 (%)
    Dynamikvorhalt Offsetschwelle (KFDYRSOF) 6x16
    Klopferkennungsfaktorkennfeld ZĂŒndung 1 (KFKEF1) 3x16 (%)
    Klopferkennungsfaktorkennfeld ZĂŒndung 2 (KFKEF1) 3x16 (%)
    Klopferkennungsfaktorkennfeld ZĂŒndung 3 (KFKEF1) 3x16 (%)
    Klopferkennungsfaktorkennfeld ZĂŒndung 4 (KFKEF1) 3x16 (%)
    Klopferkennungsfaktorkennfeld ZĂŒndung 5 (KFKEF1) 3x16 (%)
    Klopferkennungsfaktorkennfeld ZĂŒndung 6 (KFKEF1) 3x16 (%)
    Klopferkennungsfaktorkennfeld ZĂŒndung 7 (KFKEF1) 3x16 (%)
    Klopferkennungsfaktorkennfeld ZĂŒndung 8 (KFKEF1) 3x16 (%)
    Faktor Delta Lambdasoll fĂŒr Bauteileschutz (KFFDLBTS) 16x12 (%)
    Lambdasoll fĂŒr Bauteileschutz (KFLBTS) 16x12 (%)
    Kennfeld LDR I-Reglerbegrenzung (KFLDIMX) 8x16 (hPa) - Field for Boost Pressure Adjustment (intergral??)-limit
    KF zur Linearisierung Ladedruck=f(TV) (KFLDRL) 10x16 (%) - Field for Linarization of Boost Pressure=f(TV)
    LDR-Regelparameter Q0 (KFLDRQ0) 4x16 (hPa) - Boost pressure adjustment parameters Q0
    LDR-Reglerparameter Q1 (Integratorbeiwert) (KFLDRQ1) 4x16 (hPa) - Boost pressure adjustment parameterers Q1 (Intergral values)
    Kennfeld LDR-Reglerparameter Q2 (KFLDRQ2) 4x16 (hPa) - Boost pressure adjustment parameters Q2
    Schwelle fĂŒr dynamische Schubumluftventilsteuerung aktiv (KFSDLDSUA) 16x6 (hPa) - Threshold for dynamic Bypass Valve Control? active
    optimaler ZĂŒndwinkel (KFZWOP) 11x16 (%) - Optimal Ignition Angle
    optimaler ZĂŒndwinkel Variante 2 (KFZWOP2) 11x16 (%) - Optimal Ignition Angle Variant 2
    Kennfeld optimales Motormoment (KFMIOP)11x16 (%)
    Offset des optimalen ZW bei AGR-Betrieb (KFDZWOAGR)11x16 (%) - Offset of optimal Ignition Angle when AGR??- is active/runing
    Relatives Fahrerwunschmoment aus Fahrpedal (KFPED) 12x16 (% PED) - Relative Driverswish from Pedal
    Relatives Fahrerwunschmoment aus Fahrpedal fĂŒr kleine Geschwindigkeiten (KFPEDL) 12x16 (% PED) - Relative Driverswish from Pedal for low speed
    Relatives Fahrerwunschmoment aus Fahrpedal fĂŒr RĂŒckwĂ€rtsgang (KFPEDR) 12x16 (% PED) - Relative Driverswish from Pedal for in reverse gear
    Kennfeld fĂŒr Berechnung SollfĂŒllung (KFMIRL) 16x16 (%) - Calculation of Target filling?
    Kennfeld optimales Motormoment (KFMIOP) 11x16 (%) -
    Schleppmoment Drehzahl- und LastabhÀngigkeit (KFMDS) 11x16 (%) - Engine speed drag moment and load dependancy
    Kennfeld fĂŒr Nockenwellenspreizung bei Katheizen (Einlaß) (KFNWKHE) 8x16 (kw %)
    Sollwinkel Nockenwelle bei klopfender Verbrennung Einlaß (KFNWKRE) 8x16 (kw %)
    Kennfeld fĂŒr Nockenwellenspreizung (Einlaß) (KFNWSE) 8x16 (kw %)
    Kennfeld fĂŒr Nockenwellenspreizung im Warmlauf (Einlaß) (KFNWWLE) 8x16 (kw %)
    Korrekturfaktor Kraftstoffversorgungssystem (FKKVS) 16x16 (ms (up to 19... injectors...????) - Correctionfactor of fuel supply system
    Schließzeitkorrektur in AbhĂ€ngigkeit von UB (KFSZDUB) (no rpm ....V vs ms)
    ZĂŒndwinkelkennfeld (KFZW) 12x16 (grad KW %) - Ignition advance lookup field
    ZĂŒndwinkelkennfeld Variante 2 (KFZW2)12x16 (grad KW %) - Ignition advance lookup field Variant 2
    delta ZĂŒndwinkel bei Dauerklopfen (KFDZK)12x16 (grad KW %) - delta of Ignition angle by constant Knock
    Schwelle der ZW-SpĂ€tverstellungen fĂŒr ZW-Kennfeldumschaltung (KFSWKFZK)12x16 (grad KW %)
    Kennfeld mit dauerhaft spĂ€test möglichem ZĂŒndwinkel (KFZWMS)12x16 (grad KW %)
    Min-ZĂŒndwinkel (KFZWMN)12x16 (grad KW %) - Minimum Ignition Angle
    Min-ZĂŒndwinkel Katheizen (KFZWMNKH)12x16 (grad KW %) - Minimum Ignition Angle by Catalytic heating
    Min-ZĂŒndwinkel fĂŒr Start und Nachstart (KFZWMNST)12x16 (grad KW %) - Minimum Ignition Angle for Start and Afterstart
    Last edited by NOTORIOUS VR; 08-27-2009 at 10:09 PM.
    E36 · DYNO · TUNING · WIRING · PARTS

  3. #3
    Veteran Member Four Rings NOTORIOUS VR's Avatar
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    Re: Tuning your Motronic ECU (ME7.1)

    HOW-TO BENCH FLASH YOUR S4 ECU USING GALLETTO

    The basics of what you NEED to know:
    **************************************************
    1. Use Galletto when possible, it allows you to flash in boot mode (when on the bench) and is MUCH faster then the regular old OBD KWP2000 protocol in slow mode. I have only used Galletto so far and it's always worked for me!
    2. Bench flash your ECU with a good DC power supply set to 13.5V! Don't even bother to flash in your car under it's own battery power. If you have to flash in the car at least connect a batter charger!
    3. MAKE SURE YOU MAKE A BACKUP OF YOUR ECU FIRST! YOU WANT TO BE ABLE TO GO BACK TO A RUNNING ECU IF SOMETHING GOES WRONG!!!

    With that out of the way, reading and writing to the ECU is pretty simple and everything I explain here will assume you're bench flashing.

    1. With the ECU open and on the bench connected to your bench flash harness make sure the power supply is on, but the ignition switch is off (or whatever you use to simulate the ignition switch), connect your KWP2000 cable to the OBD port and start Galletto.

    2. You now need to touch PIN 24 on the flash chip (800BB) to ground before turning on your switch/ignition signal. PIN 24 the the 2nd one in from the left side on the bottom. The chip when you're looking at it should have a circle in the top right hand corner (indicating PIN 1). Also the ECU's plugs will be facing to the RIGHT! Once you touch PIN 24 to ground, turn on the ignition switch and remove the ground from PIN 24 about 2-3 seconds later. You are now in BOOT MODE.



    pic curtesy of Nye!

    3. In Galletto, select Audi from the top drop down box (MAKER), and then scroll all the way down to the bottom of the next drop down (DRIVER) to the BOOT MODE section where you will find two choices. You'll probably want the 800BB flash selection (if in doubt verify what it says on the flash chip).



    4. Click on the ECU Data button and allow it to complete, you should see some numbers appear in the top left box (sometimes you also see the words: "ECU NUMBER NOT FOUND" which seems to be ok too so don't worry if you see that).

    To "read" the ECU and save a .bin to your computer click on the Read ECU button (this is where you can backup your ECU just in case! So do it NOW!), to write a .bin file to your ECU (either tuned or stock) click on Open File then select the .bin file you want to program into the ECU and then click on Download File.

    One quick thing about this... Once you put the ECU in BOOT MODE, any time you remove power or turn off the ignition switch you will need to apply ground to PIN 24 again just before turning the ECU on again to do any functions in Galletto on the bench. I have also found that even though Galletto asks you to turn on/off the ECU during certain operations (IE. when you click on ECU Data and then want to write a file using Download File you DO NOT have to turn the ECU off and then on again. It works just fine leaving it on as long as you haven't done a read/write procedure yet (or either Read ECU or Download File buttons).

    ************************************************** ****-
    These are the basics to getting a successful flash on and off your ECU.

    I will later post up how to correct the checksums on a modified .bin file due to changes made in TunerPro.

    I will also post up the pins on the ECU that you need to connect and the pins on the OBD port plug to make a bench harness. Obviously you'll need a spare ECU plug (only the bigger one of the two) and a spare OBD port plug. Eventually I might even start to sell a pre-made bench flash harness, but that's not really a priority right now. For the ones that are really interested, if you cannot make a bench flash harness from scratch leave the tuning/flashing to someone else IMO.

    ************************************************** ******

    I feel I need to amend this thread with a final few points.

    While this thread was good to gather some info and get the ball rolling, most if not all the current and new information is now located on the NefMoto forum and the S4 Wiki.

    Links:

    http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php

    http://www.s4wiki.com/


    Truth be told I don't have the time nor is it worth it to maintain a thread like this, because information becomes very scattered.

    Also I would like to ask that people stop PM'ing me about getting them tunes, or tuning their cars for them. This is not something that I offer to the public. I don't have time to tune your car. If and when I decide to release my tunes I will do so.

    The whole purpose of this thread is to get people started with learning how to be able to tune their ME7 ECU. It's not here to save you $1000 so you can get some novice tuner to possibly blow up your car. I would like to remind people just because you have the knowledge to change things inside an ECU doesn't mean you should!
    Last edited by NOTORIOUS VR; 04-25-2011 at 09:42 AM.
    E36 · DYNO · TUNING · WIRING · PARTS

  4. #4
    Veteran Member Four Rings JDM EJ1 95's Avatar
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    Re: Tuning your Motronic ECU (ME7.1)

    good post... i have been wondering this for quite some time.
    Nogaro 01 s4

    24v 2.9L VR6. 6466. Pump gas 10.7 @ 132

    620whp 93octane
    806/767 whp/wtq on C16
    10.4 @ 136 C16 (bad slipping clutch)
    138mph best trap with slipping clutch.

  5. #5
    Veteran Member Four Rings jibberjive's Avatar
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    Re: Tuning your Motronic ECU (ME7.1)

    Good on you for setting up this thread. I hope you have the determination to see this through and get some good info out to the masses. Part of the reason why you don't see more info on this is not solely because of money (though I'm sure that's a huge part of it for the shops), it really is very complicated. There's a couple people who have been working on tuning their own cars and may be willing to help you, look up Nyet on AW and there's some others too. I'll comment again when I remember their names.
    ** GT2860R-7 S4 Build Log--

    FOR SALE:
    --JHM DELRIN SHIFTER STABILIZER BUSHING (LATE STYLE)--


    LOOKING FOR:
    --Early Style 2.7t Block "AE"
    --Your Broken/Sheared OEM Axles--


  6. #6
    Veteran Member Four Rings NOTORIOUS VR's Avatar
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    Re: Tuning your Motronic ECU (ME7.1)

    ^^thanks for the input... I will try to contact him.

    Thing is, this is not easy and shouldn't be seen as such. It will take some time to figure out, and I'm going to say this right now that I'm only interested in being able to tune the ECU's in our S4's and nothing else. Although I'm sure information that will hopefully come of this thread will be able to be easily used to tune pretty much any other ECU in the Motronic family with some work.

    I'm not doing this for monetary gain, I'm doing this for myself and others that wish to unlock their ECUs. Although this may cost me some money by the time I'm ready to attempt a tune, as long as it isn't outrageous I will continue to research this.
    E36 · DYNO · TUNING · WIRING · PARTS

  7. #7
    Veteran Member Four Rings jibberjive's Avatar
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    Re: Tuning your Motronic ECU (ME7.1)

    and BTW, the people and type of info you're looking for is more likely on Audiworld, but be sure to post your findings here as well
    ** GT2860R-7 S4 Build Log--

    FOR SALE:
    --JHM DELRIN SHIFTER STABILIZER BUSHING (LATE STYLE)--


    LOOKING FOR:
    --Early Style 2.7t Block "AE"
    --Your Broken/Sheared OEM Axles--


  8. #8
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    Re: Tuning your Motronic ECU (ME7.1)

    This is something I would also like to know but don't have the time to research all of it, good for you and good luck. Keep us updated...

  9. #9
    Veteran Member Two Rings
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    Re: Tuning your Motronic ECU (ME7.1)

    Look up chiptuners.org. There are quite a bit of ME7.x.x research/information there. 2 guys that you should talk to are Nyet and reflected (K0mpressed on this board).

    Anyway imo, the reason that the Japanese community have enjoyed "open source" tuning software has more to do with the simplicity of their ECUs. ME7.x.x is very complicated with multiple maps for every condition.

    Most likely you will never get full or basic control of the ecu to do reasonable tuning. SEM is the way to go if you want that.
    2001.5 A4 1.8tqms
    Pectel SQ6 ECU
    2.0 built motor w/ AEB head
    GT3071r w/ Full-Race Manifold
    725cc Injector Dynamics
    Startup Racing Contest Suspension 600/700

  10. #10
    Veteran Member Four Rings Reich's Avatar
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    Re: Tuning your Motronic ECU (ME7.1)

    Good info here. I've always wonder that too.
    Please keep us updated.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Three Rings AK1RA07's Avatar
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    Re: Tuning your Motronic ECU (ME7.1)


  12. #12
    Registered Member Four Rings nthusiastt's Avatar
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    Re: Tuning your Motronic ECU (ME7.1)

    Quote Originally Posted by Enclave View Post
    Anyway imo, the reason that the Japanese community have enjoyed "open source" tuning software has more to do with the simplicity of their ECUs. ME7.x.x is very complicated with multiple maps for every condition.
    Having the ability to load multiple maps doesn't add a significant ammount of complexity to tunning. I think the reason information is more readily available in the Japanese community is because japanese cars aren't as punishing to the wallet if you make a mistake. That and honda/toyota tuners after pushing the bar actually share all the details of the build. VAG and DTM tuners hoard what they have researched ultimately retard any major forward progression in the performance of our vehicles. Compared to what the Honda guys have accomplished we haven't accomplished shit.
    Last edited by nthusiastt; 03-10-2009 at 11:14 AM.

  13. #13
    Veteran Member Four Rings veggiemonster's Avatar
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    Re: Tuning your Motronic ECU (ME7.1)

    Quote Originally Posted by nthusiastt View Post
    Having the ability to load multiple maps doesn't add a significant ammount of complexity to tunning. I think the reason information is more readily available in the Japanese community is because japanese cars aren't as punishing to the wallet if you make a mistake. That and honda/toyota tuners after pushing the bar actually share all the details of the build. VAG and DTM tuners hoard what they have researched ultimately retard any major forward progression in the performance of our vehicles. Compared to what the Honda's guys have accomplished we haven't accomplished shit.
    this is the first time i would agree with you out of any post you ever made

    to the OP-good luck with further research and tuning your car if you make it that far down the road

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    Senior Member Three Rings AK1RA07's Avatar
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    Re: Tuning your Motronic ECU (ME7.1)

    Quote Originally Posted by nthusiastt View Post
    Having the ability to load multiple maps doesn't add a significant ammount of complexity to tunning. I think the reason information is more readily available in the Japanese community is because japanese cars aren't as punishing to the wallet if you make a mistake. That and honda/toyota tuners after pushing the bar actually share all the details of the build. VAG and DTM tuners hoard what they have researched ultimately retard any major forward progression in the performance of our vehicles. Compared to what the Honda guys have accomplished we haven't accomplished shit.
    Displaying the multiple maps isn't really the issue, there's already software out there for this.. its finding out what the maps control, what the axis's are on the maps, scaling factors/equations, etc, then finding a way to attractive, open source way to display it for Joey Tunesabunch so he doesn't blow up his car. DAMOS files will help, if you know German.

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    Registered Member Four Rings nthusiastt's Avatar
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    Re: Tuning your Motronic ECU (ME7.1)

    Quote Originally Posted by AK1RA07 View Post
    Displaying the multiple maps isn't really the issue, there's already software out there for this.. its finding out what the maps control, what the axis's are on the maps, scaling factors/equations, etc, then finding a way to attractive, open source way to display it for Joey Tunesabunch so he doesn't blow up his car. DAMOS files will help, if you know German.
    There really aren't any equations involved in tunning. Most of that is integrated into the tunning software. Finding the perfect fuel curve and ignition/timming is the key to a positive tune.

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    Veteran Member Four Rings Evilevo's Avatar
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    Re: Tuning your Motronic ECU (ME7.1)

    There is a bunch of stuff on audiworld. About using Tunerpro and some other files. Havent really looked into it tho

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    Senior Member Three Rings AK1RA07's Avatar
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    Re: Tuning your Motronic ECU (ME7.1)

    Quote Originally Posted by nthusiastt View Post
    There really aren't any equations involved in tunning..


    How do you plan on changing the fueling/timing maps if you don't know the equations involved in the maps?..

    If you think ME7 is so kind as to label their maps axises of RPM, lambda, and fuel enrichment, etc, in percentages, degrees, or whole numbers which correspond to their actual values, I suggest doing some more research.

    Here's an example from a Porsche 944.. not running ME7 obviously, but an OLDER version of Motronic.. this is the kind of thing you're up against.

    http://motronic.ws/rpm.htm

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    Registered Member Four Rings
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    Re: Tuning your Motronic ECU (ME7.1)

    Stage 3+ RS6's

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    Veteran Member Four Rings NOTORIOUS VR's Avatar
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    Re: Tuning your Motronic ECU (ME7.1)

    Hmmmm I have that file already... I totally didn't think that it was a damos file.... But now I see that it's a damos for an M box!

    So now the only thing I'm gonna have to do is figure out where to get a program to correct the checksum's (without spending an arm, leg and head).

    Thanks for pointing that out!
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  20. #20
    Registered Member Four Rings nthusiastt's Avatar
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    Re: Tuning your Motronic ECU (ME7.1)

    Quote Originally Posted by AK1RA07 View Post


    How do you plan on changing the fueling/timing maps if you don't know the equations involved in the maps?..
    My understanding is the map is the element were you specify the duty cycle of your injectors under specific conditions (IAT's, throttle position, RPM, and load). Inputing data into these cells did not require any precalculations on my part. Even though I'm using an aem ems the terms are the same across all engine management systems. Are you saying the me7 requires you to input these calculations before you can adjust your map?

    Quote Originally Posted by AK1RA07 View Post
    If you think ME7 is so kind as to label their maps axises of RPM, lambda, and fuel enrichment, etc, in percentages, degrees, or whole numbers which correspond to their actual values, I suggest doing some more research.

    Here's an example from a Porsche 944.. not running ME7 obviously, but an OLDER version of Motronic.. this is the kind of thing you're up against.

    http://motronic.ws/rpm.htm
    Interesting, I'm not quite sure how the ME7 works but from what your telling me it sounds like engineering left out these very simple algorithms that would make tunning a basic function.

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    Re: Tuning your Motronic ECU (ME7.1)

    AielloS4 on AW might be another guy you want to talk to http://forums.audiworld.com/showthread.php?t=2743733
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    Veteran Member Four Rings NOTORIOUS VR's Avatar
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    Re: Tuning your Motronic ECU (ME7.1)

    ^^^ Awesome... I know it's stalled a bit, I've been sick for the past few days and haven't felt much like going out in the cold to try things... I have also noticed I need to setup the software on an XP machine. Vista isn't a good platform for the tuning software.
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    Re: Tuning your Motronic ECU (ME7.1)

    Quote Originally Posted by NOTORIOUS VR View Post
    I have also noticed I need to setup the software on an XP machine. Vista isn't a good platform for the tuning software.
    ...Or any non-microsoft product...I do love my vista though for basic functions. It hasn't given me the blue screen of death, froze or crashed once in the past 6 months...I couldn't say the same for any other Microsoft operating system I've owned.
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    Re: Tuning your Motronic ECU (ME7.1)

    What we need is something like this - www.dsmlink.com/

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    Re: Tuning your Motronic ECU (ME7.1)

    I was randomly looking at some specs of AWE's old Silver Bullet and came across some interesting reading material regarding tuning the ME7. Check this and page 3 out
    http://europeancar.automotive.com/84...tive-corp.html
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    Re: Tuning your Motronic ECU (ME7.1)

    And this is why the European tuning marking is so slow and expensive:

    Quote Originally Posted by AWE Tuning Article
    He used to sell that tuning suite to anybody who wanted to buy it-up until a couple years ago. We convinced him it wasn't a good idea, since it was allowing our competitors to get an edge.
    E36 · DYNO · TUNING · WIRING · PARTS

  27. #27
    Veteran Member Four Rings csre9's Avatar
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    Re: Tuning your Motronic ECU (ME7.1)

    Quote Originally Posted by NOTORIOUS VR View Post
    And this is why the European tuning marking is so slow and expensive:
    true.

    The raw carbon-hooded car with the stock KO3 turbos runs with the factory-supplied injectors, though a 5-bar fuel pressure regulator has been installed to increase the pressure at the rails. The ignition also remains factory stock, but a prototype airbox has been installed that capitalizes on space freed up by the front-mounted

    That was somewhere in that article,
    HOW DID THEY RUN A 5BAR FPR ON KO3'S?

  28. #28
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    Re: Tuning your Motronic ECU (ME7.1)

    Quote Originally Posted by AWD G 882 View Post
    What we need is something like this - www.dsmlink.com/
    Good luck, I have owned 3 DSMs and two of them had DSMLink. Very easy to tune for sure, someone would make a killing if they developed something like that for our cars...

  29. #29
    Senior Member Three Rings XSilverJ's Avatar
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    Re: Tuning your Motronic ECU (ME7.1)

    Quote Originally Posted by MAKK View Post
    Good luck, I have owned 3 DSMs and two of them had DSMLink. Very easy to tune for sure, someone would make a killing if they developed something like that for our cars...
    Was thinking the exact same thing when I was at the dyno with my DSM buddy's the other day. All of them using DSMlink.. I was kind of envious.
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  30. #30
    Veteran Member Four Rings NOTORIOUS VR's Avatar
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    Re: Tuning your Motronic ECU (ME7.1)

    Quote Originally Posted by csre9 View Post
    HOW DID THEY RUN A 5BAR FPR ON KO3'S?
    Running a higher rail pressure isn't an issue when you can tune the ECU (which they can)... So essentially they're just making the factory injectors larger by running then at higher pressure (which some will argue will give even better atomization at the same time).
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  31. #31
    Veteran Member Four Rings wdbdy2000s4's Avatar
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    Re: Tuning your Motronic ECU (ME7.1)

    Quote Originally Posted by NOTORIOUS VR View Post
    ...So essentially they're just making the factory injectors larger by running then at higher pressure (which some will argue will give even better atomization at the same time).
    I feel like the improvement in atomization would hardly outweigh the risk of running a 150% duty cycle on a motor this expensive.
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    Veteran Member Four Rings Evilevo's Avatar
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    Re: Tuning your Motronic ECU (ME7.1)

    Quote Originally Posted by wdbdy2000s4 View Post
    I feel like the improvement in atomization would hardly outweigh the risk of running a 150% duty cycle on a motor this expensive.
    Increased Fuel Pressure basically increases the size of the injectors....

    http://s4wiki.com/wiki/Fuel_injectors

    Will show you the different sizes per BAR

  33. #33
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    Re: Tuning your Motronic ECU (ME7.1)

    stock injectors with a 5 bar FPR will flow more fuel but it will stress the living shit out of the injectors. I wouldn't want to run a 150% IDC on my car.
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  34. #34
    Veteran Member Four Rings NOTORIOUS VR's Avatar
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    Re: Tuning your Motronic ECU (ME7.1)

    Quote Originally Posted by wdbdy2000s4 View Post
    I feel like the improvement in atomization would hardly outweigh the risk of running a 150% duty cycle on a motor this expensive.
    When you increase the rail pressure, you're actually able to decrease injector duty cycle. That's the whole point.
    E36 · DYNO · TUNING · WIRING · PARTS

  35. #35
    Veteran Member Four Rings Evilevo's Avatar
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    Re: Tuning your Motronic ECU (ME7.1)

    Quote Originally Posted by wdbdy2000s4 View Post
    stock injectors with a 5 bar FPR will flow more fuel but it will stress the living shit out of the injectors. I wouldn't want to run a 150% IDC on my car.
    I never said it was smart. I just said you can do it. But than again, i dont ever plan on running K03s or injectors that small, so it doesn't affect me.

  36. #36
    Veteran Member Four Rings NOTORIOUS VR's Avatar
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    Re: Tuning your Motronic ECU (ME7.1)

    Quote Originally Posted by wdbdy2000s4 View Post
    I feel like the improvement in atomization would hardly outweigh the risk of running a 150% duty cycle on a motor this expensive.
    It's obviously a band-aid. Bigger injectors are better. Not to mention you'd better be sure that your fuel pump is up to the task when running high rail pressures...

    5 BAR = 72.5psi + 20psi boost = 92.5 psi... That's a lot.. and many fuel pumps don't flow well/much at such high pressures.
    E36 · DYNO · TUNING · WIRING · PARTS

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    Re: Tuning your Motronic ECU (ME7.1)

    [QUOTE=MAKK;3523067]Good luck, I have owned 3 DSMs and two of them had DSMLink. Very easy to tune for sure, someone would make a killing if they developed something like that for our cars...[/QUOTE
    May be we should try talking to those guys...

  38. #38
    Senior Member Three Rings XSilverJ's Avatar
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    Re: Tuning your Motronic ECU (ME7.1)

    Quote Originally Posted by AWD G 882 View Post
    May be we should try talking to those guys...
    http://www.dsmlink.com/

    Go for it..
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  39. #39
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    Re: Tuning your Motronic ECU (ME7.1)

    From what I have researched they put A LOT of time into the DSMLink, and I seriously doubt they would be interested at all in the Audi ECUs....

  40. #40
    Senior Member Three Rings XSilverJ's Avatar
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    Re: Tuning your Motronic ECU (ME7.1)

    I have a few DSM buddies that personal friends with the guys that make DSMlink.. I guess it's only 2 guys (pretty impressive), and they barely have time to do Evo's and are working there asses off to finish V3. I guess they do wanna branch off to other cars but they think Subaru's might be next.
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