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  1. #1
    Veteran Member Four Rings blmlozz's Avatar
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    new ngk bkr7e plug vs old

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    okay, so if you don't know already the almighty bkr7e we all use has been superceeded by a new part number, the rumor is that the new plug is not as ideal as the old because the electrode is longer.

    Today I went to napa, the had 2 of the old plugs and 4 of the new. I bought all 6



    The pictures are not so great, but hopfully everyone can notice that The new plugs are identical to the old, they're marked with the same part number, the only differences that I can see are:
    1) They're repackaged in a new box that has "v-power" on it.
    2) the ceramic shaft from the top half of the plug is approx 1-1.5mm taller than the old plug. The lower half of the plug is *exactly* the same size as the old plug, so it wont sit lower or shorter in the combuston chamber. The added size won't matter for installation as far as I can see either due to it being such a minor difference.

    My old bkr's have some mileage on them and ususaly the butt dyno can notice a difference with fresh plugs so hopefully these new ones will perform to expectations.

  2. #2
    Veteran Member Four Rings amd is the best's Avatar
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    Re: new ngk bkr7e plug vs old

    BKR7E FTW! I have heard about this change as well and just assumed it would be the same dimensions...I mean, how could they change them? Great info though, clears up the speculations.

    Nick
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  3. #3
    Veteran Member Four Rings mholme's Avatar
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    Re: new ngk bkr7e plug vs old

    Love those plugs. My butt dyno also feels the difference when I change these..
    08 S4- Stock

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  4. #4
    Veteran Member Four Rings Korben007's Avatar
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    Re: new ngk bkr7e plug vs old

    great plugs. funny thing is they r the same plugs i run in my mr2 turbo and celica. so i only have to buy one plug for all my cars!
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  5. #5
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Re: new ngk bkr7e plug vs old

    I saw that they changed their box but I didn't realize that they changed the plug itself. I'm running them now with no problems at all. <shurg> The changes to the plugs didn't seem to effect my car or tune at all.

  6. #6
    Veteran Member Four Rings revhards4's Avatar
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    Re: new ngk bkr7e plug vs old

    the bkr7e is a very good plug and heat range for turbo cars

  7. #7
    Registered Member Four Rings RogueStatus's Avatar
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    Re: new ngk bkr7e plug vs old

    best place to buy online? (locals dont sell em around here)

  8. #8
    Veteran Member Four Rings amd is the best's Avatar
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    Re: new ngk bkr7e plug vs old

    Quote Originally Posted by RogueStatus View Post
    best place to buy online? (locals dont sell em around here)
    You can get them directly through www.ngk.com but are you sure you local stores don't carry them? All of the pep-boys and advance auto parts stock them around here. Try asking for ngk stock #4644.
    2018 RS3
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  9. #9
    Registered Member Four Rings RogueStatus's Avatar
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    Re: new ngk bkr7e plug vs old

    they only have denso, which is supposed to be the same...but im torn. i had the bosch tri electrode copper plugs in my last s4...do i want those again or the ngks? and uh, through NGK theyre $12 a pop

  10. #10
    Registered Member Two Rings JLHroxURface's Avatar
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    Re: new ngk bkr7e plug vs old

    So are the plugs ECS has no good? Because I can't find the ones you posted anywhere.

    "NGK - Spark Plugs (#PFR6Q) - Set Of 6 Plugs ES#576"
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  11. #11
    Veteran Member Four Rings amd is the best's Avatar
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    Re: new ngk bkr7e plug vs old

    Quote Originally Posted by RogueStatus View Post
    they only have denso, which is supposed to be the same...but im torn. i had the bosch tri electrode copper plugs in my last s4...do i want those again or the ngks? and uh, through NGK theyre $12 a pop
    http://www.ngk.com/results_cross.asp?pid=bkr7e $2.39

    http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductD...rtNumber=BKR7E $3.59

    Is your S4 stage 3? A non stage 3 car will not need 7's and should run 6's (BKR6E) which are also the same price from both places.


    Quote Originally Posted by JLHroxURface View Post
    So are the plugs ECS has no good? Because I can't find the ones you posted anywhere.

    "NGK - Spark Plugs (#PFR6Q) - Set Of 6 Plugs ES#576"
    Those are great plugs but are 4 times more each per plug because they are double platinum (just last longer). I change my plugs very often to I prefer to use the cheaper ones. The BRK series of plug is one of the most common out there. Should be in every parts store out there in stock. The 7's may be slightly harder to find but should still be very common.

    Remember:

    7 series is really only needed if you are stage 3 or running n2o (or both like me :) ) (in general)
    6 series for anything less. (in general)
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  12. #12
    Registered Member Four Rings ThirdStrike's Avatar
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    Re: new ngk bkr7e plug vs old

    Quote Originally Posted by amd is the best View Post

    Is your S4 stage 3? A non stage 3 car will not need 7's and should run 6's (BKR6E) which are also the same price from both places.

    Remember:

    7 series is really only needed if you are stage 3 or running n2o (or both like me :) ) (in general)
    6 series for anything less. (in general)
    wrong
    7's are good for high boost. they handle heat better. switching to 7's on a k03'd car is good in hot temps.
    i run 8's on my stage 3
    00110100011100100110100101101110011001110111001100 001101000010100000110100001010

  13. #13
    Veteran Member Four Rings amd is the best's Avatar
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    Re: new ngk bkr7e plug vs old

    Quote Originally Posted by ThirdStrike View Post
    wrong
    7's are good for high boost. they handle heat better. switching to 7's on a k03'd car is good in hot temps.
    i run 8's on my stage 3
    Not wrong. Compared to 6's which is what is called for a stock S4 a 7 heat range plug is much colder and perfect for a stage 3 car. Hell, I have known several people running 6's (gapped down) without a sight of detonation on the plugs in a stage 3 car. I run 7's and nitrous which is killer on plugs and I have not had one issue. Running an 8 is way overkill, not to mention it would be a custom order NGK plug (if NGK).

    FYI - outside temp has nothing to do with how you select your spark plugs.
    2018 RS3
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  14. #14
    Registered Member Four Rings ThirdStrike's Avatar
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    Re: new ngk bkr7e plug vs old

    Quote Originally Posted by amd is the best View Post
    Not wrong. Compared to 6's which is what is called for a stock S4 a 7 heat range plug is much colder and perfect for a stage 3 car. Hell, I have known several people running 6's (gapped down) without a sight of detonation on the plugs in a stage 3 car. I run 7's and nitrous which is killer on plugs and I have not had one issue. Running an 8 is way overkill, not to mention it would be a custom order NGK plug (if NGK).

    FYI - outside temp has nothing to do with how you select your spark plugs.
    its not a custom plug. its supplied by most stores that carry ngk.
    i saw an improvement at the higher rpm ranges when i was stage 2 when i switched to the 7 plug.
    8 is not over kill either. i also saw an improvement when i switched from a perfectly good set of 7 range plugs to 8. car misfires on cold starts but when they heat up they run smoother with added timing than the 7s. give it a try before you speculate

    i wont argue with you over ambient temps. i was assuming on that ...
    00110100011100100110100101101110011001110111001100 001101000010100000110100001010

  15. #15
    Veteran Member Four Rings amd is the best's Avatar
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    Re: new ngk bkr7e plug vs old

    Quote Originally Posted by ThirdStrike View Post
    its not a custom plug. its supplied by most stores that carry ngk.
    i saw an improvement at the higher rpm ranges when i was stage 2 when i switched to the 7 plug.
    8 is not over kill either. i also saw an improvement when i switched from a perfectly good set of 7 range plugs to 8. car misfires on cold starts but when they heat up they run smoother with added timing than the 7s. give it a try before you speculate

    i wont argue with you over ambient temps. i was assuming on that ...

    What the model number of the 8's? BKR8E doesn't exist and the only way I can come up with an 8 heat range is to custom make one on their site.

    http://www.ngk.com/results_cross.asp?pid=BKR8E

    I still think that the 8's are a a bit overkill. Spark plugs are designed to run between ~850* idle and no more then 1550* WOT. Anything above will start to damage the electrode and anything below with cause the plug to foul out (hurting performance).

    I bet yours are too cold and you are sacraficing some power because the plug is cold fouling.

    Good read:

    "As discussed, a spark plug is made up of ceramics, steels and nickel alloys. These materials do not have the ability to produce energy or heat. When we talk about the heat range of a spark plug, we're referring to its ability to move heat away from its tip or core nose into the cooling system. A cold spark plug would have a cooler tip temperature than a hot one. With today's fuels, we know that anytime the tip of the ceramic core nose goes below 850 F, carbon will build up and the spark plug will foul. We also know that if the tip temperature of the plug exceeds 1550', the metals will begin to break down. At approximately 1700, the plug will glow and can become a source of pre-ignition within the combustion chamber. Armed with this information, it becomes clear that maximum performance can be achieved with a spark plug that has a temperature of greater than 850 at idle, but no more than 1550' under wide open throttle."
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  16. #16
    Registered Member Four Rings ThirdStrike's Avatar
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    Re: new ngk bkr7e plug vs old

    Quote Originally Posted by amd is the best View Post
    What the model number of the 8's? BKR8E doesn't exist and the only way I can come up with an 8 heat range is to custom make one on their site.

    http://www.ngk.com/results_cross.asp?pid=BKR8E

    I still think that the 8's are a a bit overkill. Spark plugs are designed to run between ~850* idle and no more then 1550* WOT. Anything above will start to damage the electrode and anything below with cause the plug to foul out (hurting performance).

    I bet yours are too cold and you are sacraficing some power because the plug is cold fouling.
    dood. no.
    first off i spoke to a rep at ngk about it. she says to me 'how much flywheel hp does your car have?' i say 'high 400's' she says 'you can try running an 8 range plug, we suggest cars running that much hp TRY the 8 range plug, usually only subaru's and evo's but you should give it a shot' ... took it for a grain of salt.
    then one day i was tinkering with timing and race gas.
    put some race gas in my tank and added 5* of timing. went out for some romping and what do you know, 5500 rpm detonation. "i think my plugs are giong out man" i say to my buddy that daily's a 409whp 1.8t. he says "dude do you have bkr8's in here?" i say no but i had an interesting conversation with a ngk rep that suggested it.
    i go to bap buy some 8 plugs for 55 bux and slap them in. go out for a drive and instantly its misfiring so badly that the ecu goes into limp mode after 4k rpm. so i remove the plugs check gap and decrease from .28 to .25. put them back in and go out for a drive.....they have been in every since. this was 4 months ago.
    experience>theory
    00110100011100100110100101101110011001110111001100 001101000010100000110100001010

  17. #17
    Registered Member Four Rings ThirdStrike's Avatar
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    Re: new ngk bkr7e plug vs old

    haha im googling and found this
    http://www.jscspeed.com/wrx/engine/ngk_plugs.htm
    (from please note section)almost to a T what ive experienced
    http://www.maperformance.com/ngk-iri...r8eix-wrx.html
    Last edited by ThirdStrike; 02-28-2009 at 12:16 PM.
    00110100011100100110100101101110011001110111001100 001101000010100000110100001010

  18. #18
    Veteran Member Four Rings amd is the best's Avatar
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    Re: new ngk bkr7e plug vs old

    I am not trying to prove you wrong or sound like an ass here but blowing out the spark <> detonation and your car missfiring when it is cold because the plugs are too cold is not correct. I would Put 7's in and gap them down. Did you try just gapping your 7's down to .028-.025?

    Btw, its .028-.025 no .28-.25
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  19. #19
    Veteran Member Four Rings vinny.dtw's Avatar
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    Re: new ngk bkr7e plug vs old

    whats the new P/N?

  20. #20
    Veteran Member Four Rings amd is the best's Avatar
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    Re: new ngk bkr7e plug vs old

    Quote Originally Posted by vinny.dtw View Post
    whats the new P/N?
    Same p/n different stock number.

    Old NGK BKR7E - Stock #6097
    New NGK BKR7E - Stock #4644
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  21. #21
    Registered Member Four Rings ThirdStrike's Avatar
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    Re: new ngk bkr7e plug vs old

    Quote Originally Posted by amd is the best View Post
    I am not trying to prove you wrong or sound like an ass here but blowing out the spark <> detonation and your car missfiring when it is cold because the plugs are too cold is not correct. I would Put 7's in and gap them down.
    i know youre not.. its just good discussion. im not gonna reinstall 7's until i see necessary. ive had 2 knowledgeable people suggest trying them and they are working great for me.
    i had 7's in for a long time w/k04's and they ran great... it could of been the plugs were just failing because of age/wear. but they looked fine when i pulled them out so idk.
    Quote Originally Posted by amd is the best View Post
    . Did you try just gapping your 7's down to .028-.025
    no i didnt try that...
    Quote Originally Posted by amd is the best View Post
    Btw, its .028-.025 no .28-.25
    right
    00110100011100100110100101101110011001110111001100 001101000010100000110100001010

  22. #22
    Veteran Member Four Rings blmlozz's Avatar
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    Re: new ngk bkr7e plug vs old

    butt dybo likes the plugs. Even in the damp rainny air with the two different plugs there's a difference.

  23. #23
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    Re: new ngk bkr7e plug vs old

    Quote Originally Posted by ThirdStrike View Post
    no i didnt try that...
    you should decrease your gap like the other poster suggested

    0.028 is too much for stage 3

  24. #24
    Veteran Member Four Rings Boris's Avatar
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    Re: new ngk bkr7e plug vs old

    so whats the code for the NGK 's in the 8 range?

    I run the NGK 7's and its fine. I cant see gaining anything much going lower..but IM always up for it.

  25. #25
    Veteran Member Four Rings amd is the best's Avatar
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    Re: new ngk bkr7e plug vs old

    Quote Originally Posted by Boris View Post
    so whats the code for the NGK 's in the 8 range?

    I run the NGK 7's and its fine. I cant see gaining anything much going lower..but IM always up for it.
    They only come in iridium: BRK8EIX. $8.48 each.
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  26. #26
    Veteran Member Four Rings blmlozz's Avatar
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    Re: new ngk bkr7e plug vs old

    Quote Originally Posted by amd is the best View Post
    They only come in iridium: BRK8EIX. $8.48 each.
    the problem with iridium is that it retains more heat than copper, so you really need to be 1-2 stages colder than a comparable copper plug in order for them to be effective.

  27. #27
    Veteran Member Four Rings amd is the best's Avatar
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    Re: new ngk bkr7e plug vs old

    Quote Originally Posted by blmlozz View Post
    the problem with iridium is that it retains more heat than copper, so you really need to be 1-2 stages colder than a comparable copper plug in order for them to be effective.
    I don't believe that is true (Q&A from denso):

    Q. Why are there different heat ranges? Which one should I use?
    A. Part of your spark plug’s responsibilities, in addition to firing a spark, is to remove heat from the combustion chamber. This is accomplished by channeling the heat through the insulator material and metal housing. From there, the heat is transferred to the cylinder head where the engine cooling system can go to work. A spark plug’s heat range is its ability to dissipate heat. The “colder” the plug, the more heat it can channel out of the combustion chamber. In a performance application, colder heat ranges may be necessary to handle the extreme temperatures brought on by higher compression ratios, forced induction, and high RPM’s. While “Colder” plugs may seem to be the way to go, please remember that the spark plug must achieve its “self-cleaning” temperature where it can burn off fuel and carbon deposits. Otherwise, the plug could “foul out” where it is prone to misfiring and poor acceleration. A plug that is too “hot” can overheat, also causing power loss, detonation, pre-ignition, and possible engine damage. A good, general rule of thumb is to start with the factory recommended heat range. For every 75 to 100 hp you add to your engine, you may go to the next colder step. DENSO heat ranges move up as they get colder; 16 would be our hottest Iridium Power plug, 34 would be our coldest (ranges; 16,20,22,24,27,31,34)
    2018 RS3
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  28. #28
    Veteran Member Four Rings amd is the best's Avatar
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    Re: new ngk bkr7e plug vs old

    Just wanted to let you guys I have found a standard copper plug in an 8 heat range coming in at a whopping $1.99. My car was blowing out the spark on the race gas map and my 75 shot so I figured I'd give 8's a try. Through some research and came up with these: R5671A-8 or stock number 4554. This is a standard NGK V-Power plug in an 8 heat range! Advance Auto had them right in stock.



    Though you guys would appreciate the info if you ever plan to use an 8 heat range and not want to spend loot for the iridium.

    On a side note, I have not installed them yet to see how that are going to work out. I'll report back.

    Nick
    Last edited by amd is the best; 03-19-2009 at 06:41 AM.
    2018 RS3
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  29. #29
    Senior Member Two Rings
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    Re: new ngk bkr7e plug vs old

    Nice find, can't wait for results.
    Go BIG or GO HOME!

  30. #30
    Veteran Member Three Rings NogaroWonda00's Avatar
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    Re: new ngk bkr7e plug vs old

    I went through two sets of ngk's in two weeks after i went the k04s were put on.. Now im rocking the RS6 plugs and they have been working awesome
    '00 Nogaro Blue S4


  31. #31
    Senior Member Two Rings WTFISAKSERIES's Avatar
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    Can i use these NGK BKR7E, In my stage 2 b6? I am using the stock recommended plugs but i want a colder plug would these be the one's i what to use? i am boosting 20psi. I don't have all my big turbo parts setup yet. But can i could run these plugs with my smaller turbo??
    04 B6 1.8t Quattro - Audi TT 225 injectors APR DV - ECS Fuel pressure gauge stock K03 at 18psi for now (Bigger turbo & 60lb ev14s scat Rods coming soon) ST Coilovers - OEM Front Control arm kit - OEM sway bar bushing - CX Racing FMIC - Mirro 18s wrapped in 225 45 18r N3000 - Carbon Fiber Interior trim - Podi steering column pod and gauge - Straight 3in CAT - TT TUNING STAINLESS DOWN PIPE -Magna Flow B6 dual 2 1/2in Exhaust - TUNED by Napoleon at 18psi.

  32. #32
    Veteran Member Four Rings DiscoPotato's Avatar
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    4644 has been out for a while now.

    Ive been buying them for like 2 yrs.
    1996 A4 - Rolled into the woods
    2001.5 S4 - Stolen
    2001 STG3+ S4 - Sold
    2011 M3 - Blown up
    2017 S3 [11.990 @ 112.38mph] - Current



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