Audi S4 vs. Mercedes Benz C63 AMG

[SebringSilver]

Okay, it's not really a comparison of the two cars, but well, the snow has melted, and the fog finally decided to lift. Best of all, it didn't rain! So there was nothing to do except to spend a couple of hours washing the cars and take a few snapshots for posterity.

Not sure if you guys agree or not, but the B7 S4 is still, to my eyes, one of the most balanced, handsome, and timeless 4-door car designs in recent memory.

[RAudi Driver]

The seats in a C63 are insane. Nice pics!

[SebringSilver]

The seats in a C63 are insane. Nice pics!

Thanks for the compliment. And yeah, those seats REALLY grip you. They're good motivation for shedding a few inches off the waistline, actually.

[nimski62]

Sa-weet man!! Which one do you like to drive better? I know the C63 is an animal, but all in all I would still venture to say that the s4 interior is better.. so which one would you rather take as your DD?

[JOS4AUDI]

beautiful! Also i agree b7 S4 is timeless.

[SebringSilver]

Sa-weet man!! Which one do you like to drive better? I know the C63 is an animal, but all in all I would still venture to say that the s4 interior is better.. so which one would you rather take as your DD?

That's a difficult choice to make. Both are great cars. If I had to choose just one car out of the two as a daily driver? I'd probably choose the S4, especially since it rains so much up here in Vancouver.

[cellg8]

nice! how about some interior shots of the c63?

[SebringSilver]

nice! how about some interior shots of the c63?

Ooops...didn't take any. I can post some tomorrow, if that's ok.

[cellg8]

That's ok..anytime is fine, thanks!

[Samster]

C63 engine - YES!
C63 exhaust noise - NO! Its like a monster gurgling or something. Just sounds weird lol. I like the deep V8 roar.

[SebringSilver]

C63 engine - YES!
C63 exhaust noise - NO! Its like a monster gurgling or something. Just sounds weird lol. I like the deep V8 roar.

LOL

Well, nothing in this world is going to please everyone all of the time. But I like the sound of the AMG exhaust. It's got real menace to it, which is a nice contrast to the classy but gentler Audi exhaust note. In short, both are great.

[91gl]

C63 engine - YES!
C63 exhaust noise - NO! Its like a monster gurgling or something. Just sounds weird lol. I like the deep V8 roar.

i have driven both (obviously i own an s4) i was a signature away from the c63 when i decided now was not a good time to fork over 69k on a car and look into a more long term investment. but the sound that the merc makes is just pure sex. it is an evil sound, it kept me up at night (no joke) popping and back firing on accel and deccel and between shifts. the car is fast, yet so smooth and the handling is razor sharp. it punishes you if you make a mistake but yet it is so rewarding to drive.

then you think you are going to hate the ride home in the audi, you sit in the recaros which actually feel refreshing to the closterphobic amg seats, you play around with the controls which you can tell that this is where audi makes a living because everything is placed so nicely and made so well. then you drive, and you push the car and even though it is not as fast, it feels good to know that the car has a firm grip on the road and that it wont snap into wild oversteer if you prod the throttle a bit too much mid corner. after the merc drive, i gained a great respect for what the audi is.

i have a huge respect for both cars, they are very different but cater to their own strengths. sebring, you are one lucky guy to have both beasts in your garage. i wish i could have both but i do not have access to that kind of money, one day, hopefully ill be that lucky.

[SebringSilver]

i have driven both (obviously i own an s4) i was a signature away from the c63 when i decided now was not a good time to fork over 69k on a car and look into a more long term investment. but the sound that the merc makes is just pure sex. it is an evil sound, it kept me up at night (no joke) popping and back firing on accel and deccel and between shifts. the car is fast, yet so smooth and the handling is razor sharp. it punishes you if you make a mistake but yet it is so rewarding to drive.

then you think you are going to hate the ride home in the audi, you sit in the recaros which actually feel refreshing to the closterphobic amg seats, you play around with the controls which you can tell that this is where audi makes a living because everything is placed so nicely and made so well. then you drive, and you push the car and even though it is not as fast, it feels good to know that the car has a firm grip on the road and that it wont snap into wild oversteer if you prod the throttle a bit too much mid corner. after the merc drive, i gained a great respect for what the audi is.

i have a huge respect for both cars, they are very different but cater to their own strengths. sebring, you are one lucky guy to have both beasts in your garage. i wish i could have both but i do not have access to that kind of money, one day, hopefully ill be that lucky.

Oh, you'll get there. Where there's a will...

And you put it very nicely. The C63 is quite different from an S4, even though they're both compact 4-door sports sedans. With the C63, I can swing the tail out even just making lane changes, and it's very exciting to know that there is so much torque underfoot, but the S4, on the other hand, gives you a confidence to go fast knowing that you're always in control.

It really is very interesting to have two such cars at the same time (along with a couple of slightly more mundane but good cars as well), because they go about doing the same thing (getting from point A to point B in a real hurry) in very different ways.

[Samster]

To put it simply, the S4 is like controlled chaos while the C63 is frenzied chaos. You might have more thrills in the C63, but you won't have that sense of control like the Audi.

[SebringSilver]

To put it simply, the S4 is like controlled chaos while the C63 is frenzied chaos. You might have more thrills in the C63, but you won't have that sense of control like the Audi.

Don't know if I'd agree with that. The C63 handles way better than the S4, exhibiting much less body roll, with steering that's far more precise. That's not to say the S4 is a slouch in these areas, but the C63 takes it to another level. The RWD factor definitely comes into play here as well, as the Audi (with its 50/50 AWD torque split) inherently wants to understeer in high-speed cornering, while the C63 is the exact opposite, with the rear pushing the car around the corner in more neutral fashion.

Sounds like you may have spent some time in a C63. But you need to drive it regularly to overcome some of the habits you pick up if you've become accustomed to driving an AWD performance car.

[wkornfeld]

The only thing that I truly hate about the Mercedes line of cars is the instrumentation and quality of parts in the car. Everything in the instrument cluster is packed in but not easy to decipher. The knobs, buttons, and even the sun visor, door handles, etc... are all very cheaply made to me. I know our cars have each of their own issues to boot but you don't just look at them and think "well my, that's a piece of shit"

[nimski62]

The only thing that I truly hate about the Mercedes line of cars is the instrumentation and quality of parts in the car. Everything in the instrument cluster is packed in but not easy to decipher. The knobs, buttons, and even the sun visor, door handles, etc... are all very cheaply made to me. I know our cars have each of their own issues to boot but you don't just look at them and think "well my, that's a piece of shit"

It is very 'plasticy' in the merc.

[Audi05s4]

c63 is one of my favorite cars

[Beelzeebub]

Power without control is useless. Very nice cars by the way bro.

[littleredwagen]

C63 is the best AMG C-Class so far. Though the c-class interior is beat. The exhaust note is intoxicating

[sakimano]

the C63 is the exact opposite, with the rear pushing the car around the corner in more neutral fashion.

no offense, but I've never heard that car described by any enthusiast as 'more neutral' with respect to cornering

that is unless neutral means sideways. In that case, yes, everyone says it's very predisposed to neutral cornering.

[Cargo8]

nice carss

[SebringSilver]

no offense, but I've never heard that car described by any enthusiast as 'more neutral' with respect to cornering

that is unless neutral means sideways. In that case, yes, everyone says it's very predisposed to neutral cornering.

Hey, no offense taken. The car's natural tendency is to behave with neutrality in the corners. The sideways attitude you speak of is induced by the driver, depending on heavy a right foot you've got. Most Audis with quattro AWD, however, understeer inherently, and there's not a lot that we can do about it.

[sakimano]

Hey, no offense taken. The car's natural tendency is to behave with neutrality in the corners. The sideways attitude you speak of is induced by the driver, depending on heavy a right foot you've got. Most Audis with quattro AWD, however, understeer inherently, and there's not a lot that we can do about it.

Quattro doesn't create inherent understeer...seems like that's what you're saying

a massive V8 crammed in front of the front axle and a resulting 60front/40rear weight bias...that creates understeer in B6/B7 S4s, but not the Quattro system

understeer is notably reduced in the RS4 thanks to its aluminium front end, and less-awful weight distribution. The B8 is even better thanks to the new chassis and engine/transmission locations, but blaming Quattro isn't right.

[SebringSilver]

Quattro doesn't create inherent understeer...seems like that's what you're saying

a massive V8 crammed in front of the front axle and a resulting 60front/40rear weight bias...that creates understeer in B6/B7 S4s, but not the Quattro system

understeer is notably reduced in the RS4 thanks to its aluminium front end, and less-awful weight distribution. The B8 is even better thanks to the new chassis and engine/transmission locations, but blaming Quattro isn't right.

hmmm...I'm not sure about your reasoning. A 4.2 litre V8 doesn't really seem 'massive'. And my old A6 also understeered a lot, and that car didn't have any V8 in it, massive or otherwise. If the presence of a sizable V8 in front is sufficient to induce understeer, then the AMG and other cars like it should also behave that way. But they don't.

In any case, I did not say that Quattro is what induces understeer. I said most Audis (not all, just most) with AWD tend to understeer. I don't think that statement is untrue.

[littleredwagen]

Quattro doesn't create inherent understeer...seems like that's what you're saying

a massive V8 crammed in front of the front axle and a resulting 60front/40rear weight bias...that creates understeer in B6/B7 S4s, but not the Quattro system

understeer is notably reduced in the RS4 thanks to its aluminium front end, and less-awful weight distribution. The B8 is even better thanks to the new chassis and engine/transmission locations, but blaming Quattro isn't right.

you realize that 4.2L V8 weighs about the same as the 2.7T. It is not the weight, but the position of the motor and weight distrubution that makes the inherent understeer. even Audi's cars powered with V6 motors understeer.

[sakimano]

you realize that 4.2L V8 weighs about the same as the 2.7T. It is not the weight, but the position of the motor and weight distrubution that makes the inherent understeer. even Audi's cars powered with V6 motors understeer.

are you missing part of the thread? I addressed this a while back and cited arrangement as the primary reason, rebuffing the thought that Quattro causes understeer. And yes, it also IS the weight...it's a big mass way up front there. Not sure what the 2.7 has to do with B6/B7? Audi NA never put one in the A4/S4/RS4.

a V8 crammed in front of the front axle and a resulting 60front/40rear weight bias...that creates understeer in B6/B7 S4s

1. the engine is not a 1.8T or a 2.0T so yes it is heavy for the car
2. the engine is LARGE for the engine bay. do you have one? If so, go pop the hood and try to fit a coke can in there...you almost can't, it's so tight. See many turbo'd S4s? No? NO SPACE!
3. I mentioned its foreward location...it was my main point actually if you'd care to re-read. The reason it's so far forward? Because the engine was not originally intended for the car....a 1.8T was, and the V8 engine was crammed in sideways to fit for the B6 S4. As a result of this, the engine hangs almost ENTIRELY in front of the front axle. Audi has addressed this poor arrangement in the B8, where the engine hangs almost entirely BEHIND the front axle now.

[sakimano]

I did not say that Quattro is what induces understeer.

what about here...

the Audi (with its 50/50 AWD torque split) inherently wants to understeer in high-speed cornering

and here...

Most Audis with quattro AWD, however, understeer inherently

I guess you meant most Audis understeer because of their chassis arrangement...and accidentally pointed to Quattro's 50/50 torque split, and Quattro AWD in your posts. ;)

[SebringSilver]

what about here...



and here...



I guess you meant most Audis understeer because of their chassis arrangement...and accidentally pointed to Quattro's 50/50 torque split, and Quattro AWD in your posts. ;)

LOL

Okay, okay, you win. I was referencing my own experience with 3 Audis, and all of them understeer(ed). I'm not sure if I'm bothered with the exact cause of it, because I still enjoy (or enjoyed) those cars for the most part.

Peace.

[littleredwagen]

are you missing part of the thread? I addressed this a while back and cited arrangement as the primary reason, rebuffing the thought that Quattro causes understeer. And yes, it also IS the weight...it's a big mass way up front there. Not sure what the 2.7 has to do with B6/B7? Audi NA never put one in the A4/S4/RS4.




1. the engine is not a 1.8T or a 2.0T so yes it is heavy for the car
2. the engine is LARGE for the engine bay. do you have one? If so, go pop the hood and try to fit a coke can in there...you almost can't, it's so tight. See many turbo'd S4s? No? NO SPACE!
3. I mentioned its foreward location...it was my main point actually if you'd care to re-read. The reason it's so far forward? Because the engine was not originally intended for the car....a 1.8T was, and the V8 engine was crammed in sideways to fit for the B6 S4. As a result of this, the engine hangs almost ENTIRELY in front of the front axle. Audi has addressed this poor arrangement in the B8, where the engine hangs almost entirely BEHIND the front axle now.

You are right. you did mention it, but I was saying that that 4.2 is no heavier than the previous S4 motor (2.7t). Even the 4 cyl 1.8t and 2.0t are completely in front of the axles, they may weigh less, but are no shorter. Audi usally designs a chassis around the their top teir non-S/RS car. The one that is usually released first. What I was saying is that even though the V8 is large and crammed in there, it is not the sole reason for the understeer.

[PenguiN]

not even a comparison... like comparing an M3 to a 330ci

[20A4Audi1.8t01]

s4 sho!

[SebringSilver]

not even a comparison... like comparing an M3 to a 330ci

That's not a bad analogy. And it still doesn't take anything away from the S4, a very good car by any measure.

[Quattroownsyou]

Hey David,...

Great cars. Sorry couldn't make the drive last week. Saw the pictures..INSANE turn out to say the least. Thought i'd post a couple of pics to give the zine crowd some car candy. Sold the S4...looking for a replacement. M5 and RS4 very high on my list.

Couple things i've noticed: Audi's are front heavy..they do not handle at the limit like certain other cars. The advantage really is at 8/10ths where quattro really affords a sense of security that anyone with limited skill can exploit in most situations. I've driven several rwd cars including Rit's freak of nature 335, and the learning curve from AWD to RWD is quite high IMHO. One the reasons why i'm leaning towards another AWD car. After owning a few awd cars, i'm almost certain a high horse rwd car will cause chaos.

[whartung]

You are right. you did mention it, but I was saying that that 4.2 is no heavier than the previous S4 motor (2.7t). Even the 4 cyl 1.8t and 2.0t are completely in front of the axles, they may weigh less, but are no shorter. Audi usally designs a chassis around the their top teir non-S/RS car. The one that is usually released first. What I was saying is that even though the V8 is large and crammed in there, it is not the sole reason for the understeer.

there is just no way that audi designs their cars chassis' around one of the most limited forms of the car, and all but ignore one of the highest selling engines in the world. I'm sorry, but you are wrong. The Audi A4's are most DEFINITELY designed around the 1.8/2.0. It would be downright stupid to design the car around any other engine.

[b spot]

Quattro IS the reason for understeer. The AWD configuration for an S4 requires the engine to be in front of the front axle to some degree.

[SebringSilver]

Hey David,...

Great cars. Sorry couldn't make the drive last week. Saw the pictures..INSANE turn out to say the least. Thought i'd post a couple of pics to give the zine crowd some car candy. Sold the S4...looking for a replacement. M5 and RS4 very high on my list.

Couple things i've noticed: Audi's are front heavy..they do not handle at the limit like certain other cars. The advantage really is at 8/10ths where quattro really affords a sense of security that anyone with limited skill can exploit in most situations. I've driven several rwd cars including Rit's freak of nature 335, and the learning curve from AWD to RWD is quite high IMHO. One the reasons why i'm leaning towards another AWD car. After owning a few awd cars, i'm almost certain a high horse rwd car will cause chaos.

No worries. We'll have another meet in the spring, which will be a great opportunity for those who couldn't make it last time to come out and join in on the fun.

I'll keep you posted.

Can't wait to find out whether you chose the M5 or the RS4!

[sakimano]

Quattro IS the reason for understeer. The AWD configuration for an S4 requires the engine to be in front of the front axle to some degree.

that's a bit of a chicken/egg argument I think. It's like complaining how bad your car looks when you haven't washed it for 6 months...is it really the looks of the car that are to be blamed? Or your mis-management of it? can you really blame Quattro for understeer just because Audi mismanaged the arrangement by jamming a V8 up by the headlights?

[SebringSilver]

that's a bit of a chicken/egg argument I think. It's like complaining how bad your car looks when you haven't washed it for 6 months...is it really the looks of the car that are to be blamed? Or your mis-management of it? can you really blame Quattro for understeer just because Audi mismanaged the arrangement by jamming a V8 up by the headlights?

Actually, is there a way to counteract some of that understeering tendency? Anything we can do to camber settings, toe-in, toe-out, etc. that will make any material difference?

[Bravest NY S4]

I ain't no track dude..... But I've been driving since I was 14(I'm 37 now), in many different cars, different continents and MANY different weather conditions. IMO Audi has designed, redesigned, defined and completely perfected the all-wheel drive system to this day. SURE we can mod our Audi's to be better, stronger, faster.... But just remember how you felt when you drove a STOCK Audi for the first time....I told myself that I would probably never buy from another car manufacturer again!!