New Spec clutch engaging soon

[oface]

My mechanic just intalled my 240mm Spec clutch. I called to see if it was done and he said it was but he was kind of weary about where the clutch was engaging at. And that he had bled it a few time already.

So my question is when my old clutch went out, which was a stage 2 SB. I was driving around with my 2871r turbo to see what it had and noticed the clutch slipping a lot. Well by the time I turned around to head back home it would only go about 20mph without it slipping at that point and then less and less speed until it just stopped. Is it possible that I f'ed up my master cylinder?

I guess I've read this clutch engages sooner than a stock or SB clutch but not really as much as he described. Anyone have any advice?

[mike-2ptzero]

Is the clutch now engaging too low on the pedal and does the pedal feel soft?


We had a Spec 240mm Stage 3 clutch installed in a B6 and it too seems to be wrong. The pedal is very soft, it catches really low and we had to make a 1/4" longer slave rod because the first 2 slaves popped the piston right out the end of the housing.

[oface]

Is the clutch now engaging too low on the pedal and does the pedal feel soft?


We had a Spec 240mm Stage 3 clutch installed in a B6 and it too seems to be wrong. The pedal is very soft, it catches really low and we had to make a 1/4" longer slave rod because the first 2 slaves popped the piston right out the end of the housing.

Yeah, the clutch catches super low. I couldn't even get it back into 1st sometimes. As for feel it felt like stock but it's been so long since I've driven it it's hard to tell exactly. Is there suppose to be an adapter kit for this clutch? How does the car drive after you added 1/4" to the slave rod?

*Mike, are you sure he didn't install it backwards???

[adr3naline fix]

Stupid idea but did they resurface the flywheel when they put in the new clutch...or did the kit come with a 240mm flywheel?

[oface]

I bought the whole kit. So brand new flywheel.

[njm23]

maybe this will help?
http://www.a4mods.com/index.php?page...djustment.html

[mike-2ptzero]

Yeah, the clutch catches super low. I couldn't even get it back into 1st sometimes. As for feel it felt like stock but it's been so long since I've driven it it's hard to tell exactly. Is there suppose to be an adapter kit for this clutch? How does the car drive after you added 1/4" to the slave rod?

*Mike, are you sure he didn't install it backwards???

That would be very hard seeing that a very large Audi shop that happens to be a Spec dealer installed it.


After making a slightly longer rod I was able to get the car into gear all the time, but did notice that if I pushed the pedal very hard into the floor I could feel the fingers of the pressure plate hitting the disk.


We feel that Spec must have cut the flywheel wheel incorrect causing the pressure plate to sit too far away from the slave.

[oface]

That would be very hard seeing that a very large Audi shop that happens to be a Spec dealer installed it.


After making a slightly longer rod I was able to get the car into gear all the time, but did notice that if I pushed the pedal very hard into the floor I could feel the fingers of the pressure plate hitting the disk.


We feel that Spec must have cut the flywheel wheel incorrect causing the pressure plate to sit too far away from the slave.

Do you expect mine to do also feel the fingers hitting the disk? How was drivability after extending the slave cylinder rod? would a smaller extension work better?

Reading that DIY from A4mods it seems like the extention is smaller than 1/4"

[mike-2ptzero]

Do you expect mine to do also feel the fingers hitting the disk? How was drivability after extending the slave cylinder rod? would a smaller extension work better?

Reading that DIY from A4mods it seems like the extention is smaller than 1/4"

The shop installed a rod that was 1/8th longer then the stock rod and it did not help, so I made one that was 1/8th longer then that one and the car was able to be driven without any issues getting it into gear.


You can make a few if you want and try them. Just buy a 5/16" threaded rod from Lowes or Home Depot. Cut them down to the lengths you want, grind off the threads enough to allow the rod caps to slide without falling off.

[Tifun]

Mine engages to late. Almost at the very last half inch. I hate my spec stg3. Good thing its on it's way out again at 12,000 miles this times verse 8,000. I wont be getting another one. Not been happy overall.

[oface]

Okay, I'll give this a try. Looks like i'll have to grind the 5/16" diameter threaded rod .0375" (appx 1/32") to get back to the stock diameter or the rod. And the total length I'll need is probably 3.065" or 3 1/16"

[oface]

Mine engages to late. Almost at the very last half inch. I hate my spec stg3. Good thing its on it's way out again at 12,000 miles this times verse 8,000. I wont be getting another one. Not been happy overall.

Is yours the 240mm stage 3+ like I have? or the stock diameter 228mm?

Hopefully this clutch lasts longer than 10k miles. It's waaay too expensive of a replaceable part to be replacing all the time.

[Tifun]

Is yours the 240mm stage 3+ like I have? or the stock diameter 228mm?

Hopefully this clutch lasts longer than 10k miles. It's waaay too expensive of a replaceable part to be replacing all the time.

it's the 240. I also have a gt28 car. Not sure about you. I almost never launch the car when I do it slips, usually hard accel though from time to time is my normal style of driving. The kind where you want to get in front of the slow douche on the highway or at the stop light. I daily my car and this has been my only issue other than coil packs. The clutch right now, or pressure plate makes a horrible squeaking/grinding noise right now like metal on metal, or rusted/broken sprigs. It does it at the point just before and after it engages.It can't be good. I went with it the second time because I needed something that day and they had it. Not this time around. I'll rent a car before I put another in again. Just not happy with it over all. Wouldn't be bad with chipped/ko4 cars though. Just not enough bite for mime, and I really don't have that much power lol.

[oface]

I got my mechanic to install the longer push rod and he said it still doesn't engage like it should. He suspects a hydraulic pressure problem like the master cylinder or the slave cylinder might have a leak or something.

Does this clutch require more pressure that the stock master cylinder can produce? Or maybe I've always had a leak but never could tell with the stock clutch..

and a couple of what ifs... how much is a master cylinder and is it easy to throw in?

[mike-2ptzero]

I got my mechanic to install the longer push rod and he said it still doesn't engage like it should. He suspects a hydraulic pressure problem like the master cylinder or the slave cylinder might have a leak or something.

Does this clutch require more pressure that the stock master cylinder can produce? Or maybe I've always had a leak but never could tell with the stock clutch..

and a couple of what ifs... how much is a master cylinder and is it easy to throw in?

No it doesn't, the pressure plate is not much stiffer then a stock pressure plate(1300 lbs). Even my stock master and slave cylinders have no problem pushing my 4800 lbs dual diaphram pressure plate.

After you put the longer rod in are you able to shift and do you hear the fingers hit the disk when you push the clutch pedal down?

BTW you could always get him to pull the line off the slave and connect it to a gauge. See if you are getting much pressure when you push the clutch pedal down. It doesn't ttake much to move the slave.

[oface]

I'm not sure about the fingers hitting at this point.

I just called Jeremy at Spec and he told me that It still may have gotten installed incorrectly. So I guess I'll call the mechanic back and ask him which way the sprung hub is facing to determine if he put it in the right way.

So if it's not that I guess the master cylinder must have gone out at the same time my clutch burnt out too.... which i still don't think should happen.

[oface]

I just called my mechanic and asked about the sticker being on there and what way it was installed. I just asked him if the sprung hub was towards the flywheel or not and he couldn't really give me a definite answer.

So basically he asked me for some pictures of the assembly and the direction that it needs to go in so he can see for himself. Can anyone hook me up with a picture of the assembled kit?

[mike-2ptzero]

Just seems odd that 2 of these Spec 240mm setups got installed lately and both had the exact same problem. To me that says the flywheels that were made were made at the wrong thickness.


I dont even think it can be installed backwards seeing that the area where the flywheel bolts go is very small.



Not 100% sure this is the 240mm setup seeing that the site I found it on uses the same picture for all of their Spec clutch kits. It really looks more like their standard 228mm flywheel for the A4 1.8t.


here is a picture of 034's 240mm setup. You might want to call 034 and see if they have any pictures of the Spec 240mm Stage 3+ that they installed into Jakes Dad's B6.

[oface]

Just seems odd that 2 of these Spec 240mm setups got installed lately and both had the exact same problem. To me that says the flywheels that were made were made at the wrong thickness.


I dont even think it can be installed backwards seeing that the area where the flywheel bolts go is very small.

I don't know about the thickness. Seems like they are machine made to be exact. Unless it's a flywheel that's to another kit. Does anyone know the correct width to check? And how come by adding 1/4 inch to the push rod it's still not working like the B6 did?

Jeremy from Spec ensured me that it was in fact possible to install it backwards and it has happened multiple times.

is that the order of the parts that the kit goes in? and what direction does it go? I assume the bottom goes to the flex plate or the engine side. I think I need a better graphic to show my mechanic how it goes in.

[mike-2ptzero]

The pics above look to be the way they should be installed. On the normal 228mm clutch/flywheel setups you can install the disk backwards with no real issues if you are using the right flywheel bolts that have a small head. On the 240mm I would think that since there is less drop down for the area in the center for the bolts, if you install the disk backwards the raised side would hit the bolts. This is why its always good to see if the disk turns while its up against the flywheel before putting the pressure plate on.


If you have a stock flywheel/clutch laying around you can always measure the over all thickness of both when they are stacked. The 240mm needs to be the same over all thickness so that the fingers end up sitting in the exact same spot. If the flywheel flange on the back side or the top is cut down too much the fingers on the presure plate will sit to far away from the fork/slave.

[andyrew]

I drove a friends civic hatch at an autox, he had a stage 4 clutch and it engaged RIGHT off the floor and he had no tq...

I stalled it 6 times getting to the starting line... And i've been driving stick all my life daily..

[B5A4Kevin]

i dunno. after reading all this, im leaning towards the aftermarket flywheel being incorrect. i doubt it is possible as they are different diameters, but i would suggest putting on the oem flywheel and testing clutch engagement. again it may not line-up or bolt on right, but if you arent paying for additional labor ( if he still has the bell housing off), it may be worth a shot.

[mike-2ptzero]

i dunno. after reading all this, im leaning towards the aftermarket flywheel being incorrect. i doubt it is possible as they are different diameters, but i would suggest putting on the oem flywheel and testing clutch engagement. again it may not line-up or bolt on right, but if you arent paying for additional labor ( if he still has the bell housing off), it may be worth a shot.

he would need to throw the stock clutch on the stock flywheel because the 240mm setup he has now is basically a 240mm S4/RS4 pressure plate on a custom 240mm flywheel with 1.8t bolt pattern.

[oface]

So what exactly is the part that could have been installed backwards? I assume it's the actual clutch plate.. but I guess it could be the flywheel?

If anyone has a picture or even a youtube video of this kit and a descriptive narrative on how it's suppose to be installed and even what the wrong way would be would be awesome.

[oface]

Found this write up on AW saying something about the SAC = Self Adjusting Clutch being set. Is this something that you have to do on the new 240mm clutch? if so could be the reason the clutch pedal is all the way down on the floor now.

http://www.audiworld.com/tech/eng86.shtml

[mike-2ptzero]

Found this write up on AW saying something about the SAC = Self Adjusting Clutch being set. Is this something that you have to do on the new 240mm clutch? if so could be the reason the clutch pedal is all the way down on the floor now.

http://www.audiworld.com/tech/eng86.shtml

That is something you need to ask Spec, I am not sure if the Spec 240mm setup uses the RS4 pressure plate like in the write up.

[oface]

Jeremy emailed me these pictures of the 240mm disk.
I can now see how you would get confused if you're use to seeing it go the other way. But if there was a sticker on it like this one, I don't see how you can go wrong.
So now I'm going to see if this jogs my mechanics memory on how it was installed. Kind of hoping he just says that yeah it was installed wrong and redoes the install. If not, not sure what to do besides replace the master and slave cylinders and go from there.


Trans side



Flywheel Side

[djwimbo]

SPEC's the hub goes into their flywheel.(or at least in my experience) I had to pull mine out after install to make sure I didn't put the disc in backwards. PITA but it's a quick job now.

240mm setups should release very similar to an S/RS4, which is pretty much just off the floor. 228mm setups are common to be pretty high release.

I'd be interested in exactly what your mechanic is considering "unacceptable". I wouldn't want to risk anything for longevity or safety, but I would be interested in more info.

FWIW I replaced my master cylinder too, it's not exactly fun, and my cost on parts was $60. I need to change my pushrod length as well.

[mike-2ptzero]

Well the disk looks the same as all unsprung disks. I guess if you put it in backwards the fingers could end up catching on the springs. That is not an issue we had with the same setup in jakes car, because after putting in a longer rod I could actually hear the fingers hitting the disk but was still able to shift gears.


If you really want to see if its a Master or slave cylinder issue just put your stock clutch/flywheel back in. Thats better then paying for all new cylinders and labor to replace them.

[VTECCURED]

Another clutch install that has gone wrong!!! NICE...


Joking.. not very nice!
This might not help, but i ran into a situation where i installed a spec flywheel (part number SA01S) and with conjunction with SB stage 4.
why mix, well prices decided for me!

When i installed it, i installed the flyhwheel then the clutch disc with the hub towards the trans. Put everything back together, and noticed with the pedal to the floor, i would hear a faint grind, then it would go away. Afterwards, im not able to shift. If i had the car turn off, placed it into gear, then started with the clutch down... the car would jerk like it was in gear...


What was happening was the fingers of the Pressure plate was hitting the springs on the clutch causing the clutch to spin not allowing me to place it in gear.
IF i would back out the pedal a little, i was able to shift with no problem. i had to keep the pedal .5 in above the floor.

Took the trans out again( wasnt very nice)
this time around place the clutch hub facing the flywheel, and the fingers wouldnt touch anymore and now im able to shift no problem.

The only thing i did notice is the pedal catches really high, but no more grinding, able to put into gear with the pedal all the way down..

problem solved.


JOHN

[oface]

Showed the pictures to the mechanic and he admits that the clutch disc went in wrong. So I'm probably gonna get stuck paying for him to do it again since he's blind and couldn't see the damn sticker that says which way it needs to go in.

[mike-2ptzero]

Another clutch install that has gone wrong!!! NICE...


Joking.. not very nice!
This might not help, but i ran into a situation where i installed a spec flywheel (part number SA01S) and with conjunction with SB stage 4.
why mix, well prices decided for me!

When i installed it, i installed the flyhwheel then the clutch disc with the hub towards the trans. Put everything back together, and noticed with the pedal to the floor, i would hear a faint grind, then it would go away. Afterwards, im not able to shift. If i had the car turn off, placed it into gear, then started with the clutch down... the car would jerk like it was in gear...


What was happening was the fingers of the Pressure plate was hitting the springs on the clutch causing the clutch to spin not allowing me to place it in gear.
IF i would back out the pedal a little, i was able to shift with no problem. i had to keep the pedal .5 in above the floor.

Took the trans out again( wasnt very nice)
this time around place the clutch hub facing the flywheel, and the fingers wouldnt touch anymore and now im able to shift no problem.

The only thing i did notice is the pedal catches really high, but no more grinding, able to put into gear with the pedal all the way down..

problem solved.


JOHN

Well that price thing isn't an issue anymore seeing that SB now offers a 17 and 20 lbs Billet Steel flywheel for the same price as the Spec.

[djwimbo]

Showed the pictures to the mechanic and he admits that the clutch disc went in wrong. So I'm probably gonna get stuck paying for him to do it again since he's blind and couldn't see the damn sticker that says which way it needs to go in.

I don't know how it works up there, but down here, the second time is free if the installer fuct up. You just don't have a car for another day or two.

[VTECCURED]

Well that price thing isn't an issue anymore seeing that SB now offers a 17 and 20 lbs Billet Steel flywheel for the same price as the Spec.

to late now... lol dont expect to remove that trans anytime soon...
lol

[torquewrench]

Showed the pictures to the mechanic and he admits that the clutch disc went in wrong. So I'm probably gonna get stuck paying for him to do it again since he's blind and couldn't see the damn sticker that says which way it needs to go in.

Did this resolve your issue? If it didn't, the issue is with the clutch pressure plate machining dimensions and/or the disc deflection. Most clutch discs obviously have two facings. Between each facings are cushion springs. When you are taking off from a stop sign and lifting your pedal off the floor, you are deflecting these springs in the clutch facings. Your pedal engagement point is directly related to the deflection of the disc springs and the amount of pressure plate lift. I am NOT referring to the center damper springs. (so as not to confuse anyone)

For example, if your unloaded disc thickness is 7.5mm, and your cushion springs deflect 0.9 mm. And let's say your pressure plate lift is 0.9 mm - then you're going to have issues. Your pedal engagement wlill be right at the floor.

Now, If your plate lifts 1.5mm, this difference (1.5- 0.9 mm) is going to increase the engagement point in your pedal. The higher the pressure plate lift, the higher your engagement point. And also, the lower the cushion deflection (the springs in the facings), the higher the engagement point.

This is a somewhat simplified explaination, but I hope it helps. Since you are not the only person with this issue, it sounds like a design/manuf. issue with either the pressure plate fulcrums, clutch disc cushion springs, or a combination of both.

Good luck!
-Nick

[oface]

Mechanic ended up straightening something out, maybe the disc (couldn't hear exactly what over the phone) And flipping it around.

Result is it works pretty good except I haven't put that many miles on it yet. I'll be driving it a lot more now though so we'll see.