I screwed up.....

[hobbes213]

So I thought I was the shit and everything for finally getting my timing belt changed and stuff, saving myself all sorts of money... right? Well, everything seemed fine until I went for a test drive. For the drive was great, taking it easy, sounded perfect. New timing belt, tensioner, water pump, some new plugs... yay.
No kidding, as soon as I pulled into my driveway tonight (I have to crank the steering wheel almost full right to get in) I start flashing a code, and I notice the engine running extremely rough. I can hear one cylinder misfiring (sounds like #4) and idle is at least 100rpm lower than normal. I wish I had a VAG or OBD tool to pull something for you guys, but unfortunately I dont, and nobody in P-cola does Audi's (one guy does VW's but he doesnt know crap).
I would have thought if I was a tooth off I would have thrown a code right away; any chance it somehow slipped or something? Right now we're at the limit of my knowledge with this car; I swear if I have to pull that crap off to get to my timing belt again I might just snap. Any help you guys could give would be friggin awesome.

B6 A4 1.8tq

[MikeWire]

Your tensioner came loose. You'll need to retime and reset the tensioner, so yes you'll need to get down to the tensioner at least so you can get your spanner in there. I doubt you did any damage to the motor if it only skipped a tooth or two, but of course don't run the motor until you are sure your timing is set correctly. Don't turn the top end over more than you need to or you'll end up with valves in your pistons. Good luck bro.

[J-jizzle]

Don't turn the top end over more than you need to or you'll end up with valves in your pistons. Good luck bro.

Can you explain on this more? I'm guessing your talking when you put your car at TDC maybe.

[MikeWire]

Yeah - before taking anything apart, manually turn the crank and get the bottom end to TDC. then loosen the tensioner and manually rotate the top end to TDC - what I meant was not to rotate more than 45 degrees or you *may* end up pushing valves into the pistons inadvertently. Then tighten the tensioner and all should be lined up. Oh and after it's all lined up crank the motor over two full cycles BY HAND, and make sure the crank and cam TDC marks line up correctly with what is on the head/block. If you are sure it's timed correctly then start the motor.

[J-jizzle]

Ok that makes sense.

[old guy]

Before you get too excited you may want to check your coil packs. With only that information (flashing CEL, rough idle) that is the first thing I would check. You may be able to remove the upper TB cover and determine if the tensioner is tight. I'm guessing you removed the coil packs and plugs when you did the TB and consequently you may have "disturbed" one of the coil packs.

Good luck!

Edit: I just noticed that you have the Hitachi coil packs so that lowers the possibility of coil packs somewhat. However I would still check them out before tearing back into the motor.

[hobbes213]

If only it was as simple as a coil pack.... thanks for the help everyone, when I get back from work today I'll post again and let you know how things went down. Hopefully my precious valves are still intact. I was stressin pretty bad last night, I just have visions of my roommate's busted timing chain on his 318i and the work he had to do for that... lol.

[hobbes213]

Ok, so here's an update for everyone on my adventures in audi.

Checked the timing, tensioner and belt, and that was fine and aligned. After doing a spark and compression test, we determined that one of my brand new plugs was bad (who would have thought). Compression in all cylinders was around 180ish (which I think is fairly normal).

Problem is, I continue to experience similar symptoms to before, just no misfire. Lower, rough, shuddering idle, not as much power, and this godawful, nasty ticking noise coming from somewhere underneath the valve cover. CEL still flashing, even after reset by el cheapo generic tool which wouldnt read the code. God I wish I had access to a VAG tool.

After standing around with a few guys and drinking a few beers, someone mentions that it sounds like it might be a tappet. I'm going to open up the valve cover tonight, but I dunno what looks "right" , so is there anything specific I should be looking out for? Hell, I dunno if this is even the problem, but it's my best bet right now.

[dirtybrd]

Sounds like you need to go back over all of your hoses and make sure you didn't forget one or one didn't seat fully.

[old guy]

The loud ticking noise could be coming from your camshaft positioner. If it is loose it can create a "singer sewing machine" noise as your revs increase. The rough idle could be from a loose hose as dirtybrd suggested.

[AudiA4_20T]

The loud ticking noise could be coming from your camshaft positioner. If it is loose it can create a "singer sewing machine" noise as your revs increase. The rough idle could be from a loose hose as dirtybrd suggested.

some of us arent old enough to know what the "singer sewing machine" is hahaha

[B6Lovin]

some of us arent old enough to know what the "singer sewing machine" is hahaha

we have one upstairs that we use as a TV stand!

seriously, that thing belonged to my freakin great-great-grandma who would be something like 140 now. it's old as balls....

literally, the thing is probably over 100 years old - it's got a pedal that you have to pump up and down lol

[dougyfresh]

some of us arent old enough to know what the "singer sewing machine" is hahaha

I do. I have a kenmore sewing machine but it was given to me for free. I use it all the time to fix and 'mod' clothes.



I am also fondly familiar with that sound. My car is making the same ticking sound. That damn cam tensioner. No drivey for me until I get new tensioner.

[old guy]

some of us arent old enough to know what the "singer sewing machine" is hahaha

bunch a gol' durn whippersnappers!

[hobbes213]

Doug - I saw your thread about the tensioner, and i'm fairly convinced that I have a problem with the tensioner (it doesnt sound like the floater vid at all).

I'm throwing the code 16396: cam a - intake - advanced set point not reached. Engine bitches with this noise from idle to exactly 2600rpm, and then it just stops. The engine doesn't drown it out, it suddenly just stops. And as soon as it comes back down, it starts making the exact same noise. There are 2 or 3 very specific spots where the sound is especially bad (somewhere like 2200 or 2300 for example).

Now on some of the forums like VWvortex and stuff there were some posts about using vag-com to help clear, test and fix this code, but they were for different engines. For example, like 107 or 94 or something in basic settings...

If anyone could point me in the right direction for an AMB - I'm new to the whole vag-com thing, and I really dont want to have to drop 500 bucks on getting a new tensioner - or 50 for a new position sensor. That's money that could go toward my LS1 for the datsun...

And old man - I had no idea what you were talking about with the sewing machine - I kinda just did the smile and nod thing... but thanks for the help

Edit: Btw - the darn thing runs almost perfectly fine, accel's just as well, gas usage is unchanged (about 370 - 400 miles per tank), power and boost appear to be normal. So my fix so far has been to turn the radio up...

[hobbes213]

bump de bump bump bump!

so with this noise, that sounds like what doug was describing, and what i said in my last post, and this code (16396), should i just go ahead and order the cam chain tensioner? or does anyone have some vag-com suggestions? or other ideas before i go and drop 500 bucks.... I'm just trying to save some money.

[old guy]

bump de bump bump bump!

so with this noise, that sounds like what doug was describing, and what i said in my last post, and this code (16396), should i just go ahead and order the cam chain tensioner? or does anyone have some vag-com suggestions? or other ideas before i go and drop 500 bucks.... I'm just trying to save some money.

All you can do with VAG software is to reset the code. I can pretty much guarantee that it will come right back. As you already know the code you are getting is because cam a (intake ) is not advancing as it should. That is the sole function of the cam position adjuster. During a cold start it advances the cam timing by moving the "slack" from the loaded side of the cam chain to the unloaded side of the chain. This advances the intake cam position relative to the exhaust cam. After the car warms up it returns the cam to its original timing. The position adjuster has wear blocks on either side. These are the brown pads you see on either side of the adjuster. As these wear down (or deteriorate) the cam chain begins to rattle when it is under light load. As you increase the load the the rattle will stop. Sure sounds like a bad cam position adjuster to me.

Sorry!

[hobbes213]

I hate you old man....

Thanks for the help guys - I'll keep you updated and see if this works. I'm convinced retailers like screwing audi owners over, because when i searched for a4 b6 1.8tqm this part was 500 - 600. I type in 1.8t AMB engine - and bam. VW oem part, under 300. wtf - it's the exact same part lol.

Last question for now though - this is my daily driver, so if this things actually goes, how screwed am I? I'm assuming that because there wouldn't be proper tension that my timing wouldn't be as advanced, and would not be variable, leading to efficiency / power loss, not total engine explosion, but I don't know really.

[old guy]

For a better understanding of the what the cam adjuster does read section 2.1.3 of this article on the 1.8T ULEV engine: Clicky click. The cam is only advanced during a cold start. Otherwise it goes back to the normal position. As long as the adjuster doesn't come completely apart your car will run OK.

[hobbes213]

Well I finally replaced the cam tensioner yesterday, yay!!! Changed the oil immediately afterward. CEL went away, and the engine purred, didnt growl at me in the slightest. Now, about 15 miles down the road, I get a CEL. My heart sank. I pull over into a parking lot and run it through the full RPM range in neutral. Sure enough, the noise was back - in the exact same RPM's, only this time it was about half as loud.

Considering it popped 16396, the same code as before, and the problem went away for a little bit, what could be causing this part to go bad?

[MikeWire]

Are you sure the tensioner is holding the belt tight? Maybe the belt is slipping? Have you checked out the teeth on the belt and the pulleys? I have seen a t-belt shred teeth when it slipped.

[hobbes213]

I'll check the timing belt tensioner again, see what it's doing - but when I replaced the timing chain tensioner the belt appeared to be rock solid from what I could tell. In this process I've also replaced the camshaft pulley. So the only things left that I can tell are the crank pulley (very doubtful), water pump (new w/ timing belt change), Timing belt tensioner and pulley, and the cams themselves, or the chain.

In my own, limited opinion, it seems as if one or more of these parts is just slightly off, either causing damage to the timing chain tensioner, something causing an improper load on the exhaust cam, or something causing the chain to run just off of where it needs to be.

It just seems so very strange that I could replace the part responsible for the code, see the engine return to normal, only to have the problem reappear. This might just drive me insane.

Now as much as I would looooove a set of cat cams, I'm running stock tuning... so no. Dont even suggest it. Unless they're billet and under $500. lol.