Which clutch to get??

[AudiHolicS4]

okay guys time for a new clutch and im just having the problem of deciding which one to get i know there are tons of threads but im still having a couple problems with deciding im stg 2 maybe gonna be stg 3 in the future but for now im just looking for something thats good for a DD and can still get the job done and also what about a flywheel you guys think just getting a resurfaced flywheel is okay? TIA for the input

-JHMotorsports STG 3
-Sounthbend STG 3
-RS4 OEM

[Jung]

VAST stage 3... i thnk is the same thing as jhm though

[Slave IV]

I just got a Southbend Stage 3 Clutch (OFE) and it is very nice but if I were to do it again, I'd go with their puck style clutch with the Sachs Race Cover just to avoid the SAC mechanism and be sure you minimize any chance of slipping. I think it comes in both street and track versions. As for the flywheel, you'll have to see it to know if you can resurface or if you need to replace it.

[hoosierchemist]

I talked to Brian at Avalon in Denver about a replacement clutch. I am also stage 2, going 2+ when I change the clutch, and I ended up going with the south bend stage 3.

[jaybquick@JHM]

JHM/VAST/SOUTHBEND stage 3's are all the same! vast/jhm just order them from southbend anyways so might as well go to southbend save alittle money. i would not recommend the stage 3 ive had nothing but trouble with that clutch. i do recommend the stage 2 kevlar tho

Just to clarify and help you with your facts. I don't think you should say stuff as fact that isn't and then call me for assistance with your transmission repairs. I thought we were cool and now you are passing information that you got most likely secondhand as fact. You insinuated that JHM/VAST bought from South Bend. That would mean I did. I DO NOT, I buy from VAST. I am loyal to companies I am in partner with and all I know is that I get them from VAST.

I get them straight from VAST and I know they get their REAL RS4 pressure plates straight from Germany. Their discs are outsourced and due to loyalty I have never cared to ask or find out from where.


Here is how I treat my stage 3 VAST. http://jhmotorsports.com/videos/JHM_...Angles_Web.wmv

Wonderful clutch and I went 11.1 @ 130mph with full interior with it. I think some companies use replica RS4 pressure plates or allroad pressure plates to increase profit margin and pass them as real, this is why many people have had such problems. I have installed tons of VAST clutches on customers cars as well with ZERO comebacks. I have also found in my 16 years of HANDS ON automotive experience, MOST clutch failures are due to improper abuse. I beat on mine hard, but not stupidly. Kind of seems weird but my clutches last longer than many and I treat them harder, it comes down to driving technique.

Hope this clears things up for a few.

[Slave IV]

LOL, I was surprised to see that someone posted that the VAST/JHM clutch was the same as Southbend since I didn't think that was the case....
Hey Jason, just wondering what your opinion on what the wrong driving technique is that causes premature clutch wear. And since you're here, I was also curious on why only the first two gears are cryoed on a lot of the tranny upgrades out there..Why not do all of them? Thanks for any answers...

[jaybquick@JHM]

LOL, I was surprised to see that someone posted that the VAST/JHM clutch was the same as Southbend since I didn't think that was the case....
Hey Jason, just wondering what your opinion on what the wrong driving technique is that causes premature clutch wear. And since you're here, I was also curious on why only the first two gears are cryoed on a lot of the tranny upgrades out there..Why not do all of them? Thanks for any answers...

I think those who slip the clutch excessively. This is a big NO NO. Once you get on boost and if the clutch is being slipped, it will get hot quick. Then they make the mistake of not letting it cool down. I think the best way to be explain it would be "ignorant abuse". Another rule is that any time your clutch shows even the smallest sign of slipping you STOP what you are doing and leave the car alone. I had my stage 3 slip once a long time ago when the track was really sticky on a launch. I didn't try to shift it into second (another mistake) I just backed off at the first sign, went to the pits and packed up and called it a day. Several months later I went 11.1 @ 130mph with that exact clutch that had previously slipped.

VAST and I have a Sachs Racing pressure plate style clutch with a higher clamp load that is either 6-puck or kevlar. It has a higher clamp load and is quite streetable. We haven't put it on our sites yet since we are putting this clutch on my car soon and one of their in house cars. Once we personally do well with them, we will begin selling them openly. But we have sold several with great results.

[Slave IV]

Thanks for the quick and clear response...I'll ask about the cryo thing again when I'm ready for a new transmission...

[ScottyT]

I would suggest not to go with the kevlar CM stage three and resurfaced stock FW combo. I had this with a FW resurfaced by an indy shop that ate it's self in 4500 miles. Bought a replacement from CM and bought a Vast resurfaced FW (to make sure it was done right, i suspect the indy did it with just a zip wheel) and while better, it still chatters like a MoFo. This is with a rebuilt trans, new slave, new master, and new linkage so I'm kinda set on the idea that the clutch is the issue. BTW this was on k04/997 hybrids only running 11psi so it's not a power issue. Break-in was spot on as well, both times.

I have driven a southbend feramic (spell?) and love it, thats what I'll be getting next I think, maybe with one of those SPEC FW's with the removable/replaceable friction areas so i don't have to keep buying flywheels (can only be resurfaced once as per vast).

FYI, I have no experience with the CM stage three from wicked that they say has a different PP or the stage CM stage 3/4 hybrid

So I'm sure there will be some people telling you to go CM stage three b/c when i researched my clutch kit I found nothing but good reviews. Either they were bullshit (people dont like to admit they spent poorly) or I got the only 2 bad CM stage 3's ever made

G/L

[ScottyT]

Slave; I know your question was for JHM but when I rebuilt my trans (should have went with JHM and did the work myself btw!) I called Stasis and they said they cryo their 1st, 2nd gears and their input shafts. They do a lot more than that but said thats all they cryo.

I did this with http://www.nitrofreeze.com/ very nice people to deal with and at the time it cost me about 100 bucks

[Slave IV]

Yeah, I just checks JHM's site and I thought he offered it too but I didn't see it this time. Just wondering why Stasis only cryos the 1st two and not the rest...

[AudiHolicS4]

Hope this clears things up for a few.

dont worry jay i know you guys *and* vast dont mess around when it comes to everything you sell but i just like to get opinions from all sides but your clutch was at the top of my list

[AudiHolicS4]

so ive also read that a puck style clutch is not great for longevity and DD can anyone clarify this so i know what my choices should be as for the disc

[AudiHolicS4]

I talked to Brian at Avalon in Denver about a replacement clutch. I am also stage 2, going 2+ when I change the clutch, and I ended up going with the south bend stage 3.

so are you happy with the southbend?

[blmlozz]

so ive also read that a puck style clutch is not great for longevity and DD can anyone clarify this so i know what my choices should be as for the disc

puck styles grab harder and have greater holding power but because of this their lifespan is greatly reduced compared to a full face. The difference can be as much as 10-30K between clutch changes with material's being the same.

[Splinter]

As far as i know, they only cryo the first two because that's where the problems lie (most prone to failure), and those are the two that take the most abuse... waste of time to do the rest or something.

[blmlozz]

Slave; I know your question was for JHM but when I rebuilt my trans (should have went with JHM and did the work myself btw!) I called Stasis and they said they cryo their 1st, 2nd gears and their input shafts. They do a lot more than that but said thats all they cryo.

I did this with http://www.nitrofreeze.com/ very nice people to deal with and at the time it cost me about 100 bucks

the oe 1-2 syncro was built within such a tight speciication that when you combine most s4 agresssive drivers with it , it would end up seizing from 1-2 power shifts and abuse. There was an updated syncro that was made from a Better material and a looser specification that solved this problem. While it's a good idea to still cyro it for drag Cars and butt loads of power, it's not really necessary for low powered dd's since that is why stasis orginally suggested to cyro the 1-2 syncro.

[fixn2xlr8]

If I had itto do again stg 3 I woudnt have gone with a lightened flywheel. Syncros dont have time to catch up so I have to give a slight pause beween 1snt and 2nd.

I went CM stg 3, I might look at a stage 4, 6 puck ceramic next time.

[infinkc]

i went with a stage 3 clutch from JHM/Vast and resurfased FW, i have 400 miles on the clutch so far and my impressions so far of the clutch are great. The engagement and feel is stock. I can feel this thing grab when i let out the clutch too fast. Cant wait for a few more miles till this thing is broken in.

[Slave IV]

Thanks for the responses...makes sense but I think I'd still rather have it all done if any just because...

[lucajS4]

im stage2 for now....dropped a rs4 vlutch from ecs tuning and used a different clutch plate from vast

[jaybquick@JHM]

If I had itto do again stg 3 I woudnt have gone with a lightened flywheel. Syncros dont have time to catch up so I have to give a slight pause beween 1snt and 2nd.

I went CM stg 3, I might look at a stage 4, 6 puck ceramic next time.

It isn't the lightweight flywheel causing this, it is worn synchros in your trans.

All my shifts in my videos are with a lightweight flywheel and a VAST stage 3 clutch, here is one of the best examples of how fast you can shift these from a while ago --> http://audishifter.com/videos/Jaybqu...ifting_web.wmv


Also you can't compare 2 different companies stage 3s. Not all use the same pressure plates or clutch discs.

[slow ride]

Flywheel/pressure plate weight have nothing to do with the shifting as Jay said. The weight of the disk on the other hand can put more wear on the synchros. The lighter the disk the less inertia and less work the synchros have to do to catch up/down to speed. One nice thing about unsprung disks, but I wouldn't use those on the street.

[AudiHolicS4]

wtf they suspended gregs(2001S4NY) account i wonder what happened well if you read this i deff need help putting it in and NY isnt too far of a drive for me hit me up on my email [email protected]

[Militant-Grunt]

That was uncalled for..

[Militant-Grunt]

wtf they suspended gregs(2001S4NY) account i wonder what happened well if you read this i deff need help putting it in and NY isnt too far of a drive for me hit me up on my email [email protected]

PM me if you have not reached him.