How did the tuners crack our ECU's and make a good tune?

**Boris** · 01-20-2009 02:16 AM

How does one go about tuning the car yourself. I have got as far as figuring out that I can use WINOLS to access the maps that are in the mototronic ecu..
But there's like 136 of them or so...I could figure out which map controls what, but honestly, there are so many maps, I wouldn't know how much I would have to change on each map, or other maps effected by those changes.

How did EPL, ASP , AWE etc. figure all this out? Did they use the Rs4 data maps to then figure out which variables were changed and then go from there?
I've met a few of them, and these guys are normal people, I don't think any of them are software engineers, nor have they taken classes about the BOsch Mototronic...( Correct me if Im wrong, maybe they did?). I am not implying they are not smart, in fact I think they are all smart people, but if they can figure it out, can't we?

I could tune a car myself in the past with a power fc...but man, this is a whole nother hairy thing.

I really wish ASP would sell us their propietary tuning software. I have seen them use it, and I don't really know anything about it, but from what i've seen , it looks like some custom made software the manipulates the necessary maps on the Me7 via simplified controls.

I think that there needs to be a breakthrough, in either knowledge or a program that allows the average shmuck to tune this car. I don't like being at the mercy of a 'tuner' for simple data values that we do not know. Why isn't this knowledge shared? I don't want to hear anything about, oh well they went through all the expenses of developing a tune etc.. that's fine, Im not asking for anyone's free tune, they developed their own recipe, a certain configuration of data values that work well for a ko4 or what have you, then thats fine, they are entitled to charge what they will for that recipe they have made...
BUt I am contending about a point that is apart from that, Im saying where is the knowledge about our ECU's in general? Why is their no sticky on which maps to change and how to change it? I know there is a program online that we can use to access our mototronic, and change the values, but which maps do I change etc? WINOLS accesses the maps but doesn't tell me what the map is for.. we need to know all the maps and the values that need to be changed according to what conditions etc. These are numbers that we need to learn!

there are many smart people here, and I think the time has come to figure this stuff out. Can anyone lead me in the right direction? Thanks!

**the dog** · 01-20-2009 03:12 AM

It takes a lot of skill and practise to be able to chip and tune a Ecu with winols..
There are guys that manually search and find maps in winols simply be looking at the hex dump ..
I can not do that.... But there are some easy ways out of this...
1. Damos files are used with winols to translate the values and give the maps position of each ecu. They are way more than the 136 maps that winols can auto detect. More like 500+. The maps are all named and the values are numeric.
Even if you get damos (for your ecu) you still need a lot of time and effort to figure out what maps does what...There are more than one maps to control, lets say , boost. They are correction maps, duty cycle maps, boost cut maps ..etc....+ all maps descriptions are in German...

2. There are some software solution that suppose to help a lot with the tuning...Like ECM ,race2000 etc.... They are supposed to simplify the whole process and give the newbie only the essential maps to play around...I never saw or try this kind of software so I do not know if they do, what they say it will do...

**Boris** · 01-20-2009 03:45 AM

Originally Posted by the dog

It takes a lot of skill and practise to be able to chip and tune a Ecu with winols..
There are guys that manually search and find maps in winols simply be looking at the hex dump ..
I can not do that.... But there are some easy ways out of this...
1. Damos files are used with winols to translate the values and give the maps position of each ecu. They are way more than the 136 maps that winols can auto detect. More like 500+. The maps are all named and the values are numeric.
Even if you get damos (for your ecu) you still need a lot of time and effort to figure out what maps does what...There are more than one maps to control, lets say , boost. They are correction maps, duty cycle maps, boost cut maps ..etc....+ all maps descriptions are in German...

2. There are some software solution that suppose to help a lot with the tuning...Like ECM ,race2000 etc.... They are supposed to simplify the whole process and give the newbie only the essential maps to play around...I never saw or try this kind of software so I do not know if they do, what they say it will do...

thanks dog. So at some point did these tuners we have here: GIAC, ASP, EPL,...figure these things out using one of those programs? I am going to ask them. Oh and to clarify, the 130 some maps i mentioned was what I was told were the maps that were relevant to tuning for us when we add a larger turbo ( don't know if that's right or not)

**the dog** · 01-20-2009 06:47 AM

No.That is not correct. 130 maps are way too much....25 to 50 maps depenting on the ecu is more accurate...
Most maps in the ecu have to do with communication anw....
Most tuners use tuning software to simplify the whole process. But cuting corners is not always good.
This kind of software usally changes some "safty" map ( example: maf cut at 100000g/sec) in the background when you change a basic function (boost).It simplifies the whole process but at a price..
Your best bet (as mine) is to try and learn winols. But it cost a lot buy

**AudiA4_20T** · 01-20-2009 09:15 AM

Trial and error, and knowing Polish and/or German

**audimeister** · 01-20-2009 09:58 AM

^^lol. I did read a story about someone getting (stealing? buying?) a copy of the ap Bosch uses to write motronic code. Word is, it's a pretty slick, dedicated platform.

**the dog** · 01-20-2009 10:17 AM

I heard that they bought/stole the Damos files........

**Shomegrown** · 01-20-2009 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by the dog

I heard that they bought/stole the Damos files........

That's what it comes down to.

Get Damos on the grey market. That's the hardest part, as long as you know a little German.

Tuning a car isn't hard. On this car it's getting the tools and knowing where to look which is the problem.

**the dog** · 01-20-2009 01:21 PM

Time for me to learn German then... :)

**AristoA** · 01-20-2009 03:45 PM

How about a forum Paypal fund for the Damos files?

**Boris** · 01-20-2009 06:02 PM

Originally Posted by AristoA

How about a forum Paypal fund for the Damos files?

The DIABOLAKI!! He has spoken! hahaha. This thread has pulled some people out of the woodwork that I have never seen post before.

**Boris** · 01-20-2009 06:02 PM

Originally Posted by Shomegrown

That's what it comes down to.

Get Damos on the grey market. That's the hardest part, as long as you know a little German.

Tuning a car isn't hard. On this car it's getting the tools and knowing where to look which is the problem.

ok, Damos then. Do you think any tuner in america would share it with us? Or do we have to buy it?