timing belt question with pictures...

[02A4_B6]

so i have everything off the front of the car ready to start the timing belt diy. so for shit and giggles i figured id check out the timing mark and see if they line up before i start to remove anything. well just by eyeballing the distance i can already tell that the upper cam gear marks and the lower pulley marks will not line up once i rotate the crank? whats going on with this?

[dirtybrd]

They rotate at a 4:1 ratio. Just turn the motor until they line up. If they were off that much you would have had some serious problems. Or it's been apart before and someone didn't install the lower pulley correctly.

[dougyfresh]

Looks like you're on the wrong stroke (exhaust most likely instead of compression).

Like chris said, rotate the crank one more revolution (clockwise) and the cam should line up.

[dirtybrd]

The crank spins 4 times for every one 1 time the cams do. Thats why the cams are 180* out and the crank is 90* out.

[02A4_B6]

thank you guys very much. i cant tell you how much your help means. once this is done then its off to....

1. flush side mount I.C. with gasoline to clean out oil inside
2. install test pipe and o2 bungs (if Eurocode gets their act together and ships the test pipe like they were supposed to...long story)
3. replace rear def oil
4. replace trans oil
5. clean and reinstall MAF
6. clean and reinstall throttle body
7. reinstall powdercoated and internally cleaned intake manifold and associated gaskets
8. drink some beer
9. drink some beer
10. buy a bent stainless steel pipe and some silicone couplers to replace rubber factory TB to Intercooler Pipe.
11. install vent gauge
12. put everything back together and enjoy!

[dougyfresh]

I came up with a handy trick on Saturday to set proper tension on the timing belt and gas tensioner. Stumbled upon this when I was putting my timing belt back on. I'll post up pictures and info tonight when I get home from work.

[Papachristou]

need to add a few more beer breaks in there...my buddy and i finished off 2+ thirty packs doing my clutch, diff, FMIC and TB

hmm of course it did take awhile

[dirtybrd]

When adjusting the belt, you want to be able to twist the long side of the belt just under but not a full 90*. If the belt is to loose, not to worry the hyd. tensioner will take it up. If it's to tight the belt will howl when it's running.

[02A4_B6]

k fellas turned the motor a few times just to make sure as per your instructions and the bottom is still shy of the mark by 5/16ths. which is just 1/16th more than 1/8th of an inch. should i proceed? nothing to worry about?

[AudiA4_20T]

k fellas turned the motor a few times just to make sure as per your instructions and the bottom is still shy of the mark by 5/16ths. which is just 1/16th more than 1/8th of an inch. should i proceed? nothing to worry about?

give us a picture... That is always frustrating.

[old guy]

I know this won't help you but it may be helpful for others that are reading this thread and are planning to do a TB change in the future. There is a really easy way to avoid the issue you are encountering. Get yourself a paint pen or any other type of marker. Mark one of the teeth on the cam sprocket and mark a line across the belt where it engages the marked tooth on the cam sprocket. Now do the same thing on the crank sprocket. When you remove the TB just lay it on its side on the ground and place the new timing belt directly on top of the old belt. Line it up tooth for tooth. Mark the new belt to match the old belt. Put the new belt on matching the belt marks with the marked teeth on the sprockets. As long as you match the marks it is virtually impossible to get it wrong.

cheers!

Old Guy

[02A4_B6]

here are the pics. when i measured the teeth on the belt the distance im short on the bottom seems to be the exact width of one timing belt tooth. keep in mind that all i have done so far is remove the upper timing belt cover attached to the valve cover and rotated the crank to verify lining marks. should i turn the bottom end one tooth mark before put the new belt back on to compensate for the 5/16th im off?


[IMG][/IMG]

[dirtybrd]

I've done about 75 different t-belts on various cars and no marks are ever perfect, especially if the pulleys are lining up on a stamped steel cover.

[02A4_B6]

old guy: ive researched all your posts thoroughly and had every intention of using your procedure to mark the belts. with that being said a few montha ago i threw a C.E.L that was associated with skipping a tooth. if i seem to be off by a tooth i just want to know if it is safe to advance the crank one tooth mark at the bottom end before i put the new belt on. so basically when i put the new belt on the white marks i made will line up everywhere except at the crank where the white mark on the belt will be ahead of the white mark on the crank gear by one tooth. will this compensate for the difference i am short? is it safe to advance the crank by one tooth(5/16ths)? i love my car and dont want do destroy it. i dont want to be a pain

[old guy]

Exactly what indications (DTC codes) did you have that made you suspect that your TB was off by one tooth? Did you experience any performance issues when you got the DTC or was the only indication the code itself?

[dirtybrd]

One tooth and you'll be safe even if it's not running right, but 2 teeth could very well spell disaster.

[02A4_B6]

honeslty i forgot what the code was but when i searched the code some posts suggested that it had to to with the TB skipping a tooth

[dirtybrd]

Put on the new belt setting it the way you think it should go, then install the lower cover and pulley back on and see how things are lining up. Then decide after that. Lets get some direction then make a desicion.

[old guy]

If I am reading your post correctly you are stating that you marked your cam and crank pulley with the old belt and matched your new belt to the old belt. You then installed the new belt and found that the crank mark was off approximately one tooth's width.

Few questions: did the two belts match up exactly tooth for tooth?
Did your car run correctly before you changed the timing belt or were there any performance issues?
If the belts matched and the car ran properly before you removed the belt I would go with the belt marks as they are. After installing the new belt you can check things out by turning the motor over several turns by hand. Remove the plugs and wrench on the crank pulley. If the valves contact the pistons you will know it since you will not be able to turn the motor over by hand. If everything appears copacetic go ahead and zip everything up.

Good luck!

[02A4_B6]

hey old guy. i think in my panic ive confused you. all i have done so far is removed the entire fascia of my car, removed the upper timing belt cover and spun the motor by hand a few times to verify that the marks on the valve cover and cam gear line up as well as the marks on the lower crank pulley and the lower cover line up. the crank pulley is shy of lining up with the lower cover mark by aprox. one tooth. (as per above pictures) car ran fine before i took everything apart.

[old guy]

hey old guy. i think in my panic ive confused you. all i have done so far is removed the entire fascia of my car, removed the upper timing belt cover and spun the motor by hand a few times to verify that the marks on the valve cover and cam gear line up as well as the marks on the lower crank pulley and the lower cover line up. the crank pulley is shy of lining up with the lower cover mark by aprox. one tooth. (as per above pictures) car ran fine before i took everything apart.

Understood. If your car is running correctly now you should NOT advance your belt by one tooth. Follow my instructions on marking the belt and put the new one on EXACTLY like the old one and life will be good.

[02A4_B6]

will proceed from her and put the new belt on exactly like the old belt is. might be back for help with the tensioner. lol. i rented the whole set of vag tools from blaufergnugen.

[old guy]

will proceed from her and put the new belt on exactly like the old belt is. might be back for help with the tensioner. lol. i rented the whole set of vag tools from blaufergnugen.

Good luck! Just take you time and everything will work out fine. You are obviously paying attention to what you are doing. Sorry about the misinterpretation of you original post. (As an Old Guy a little problem with reading retention should be expected!)

[AudiA4_20T]

that looks it could be a tooth off. When you tightened the crank pulley down, it has some play. Could the play go towards the tooth anymore?

[02A4_B6]

i havent tightened anything down yet. i havent even taken off the lower pulley! LOL. gonna start taking everything off now

[dougyfresh]

When was the last time your timing belt was done?

If I am understanding you correctly.. Those images are of the timing belt you're taking off. IN that you have yet to take the crank pulley off and start taking the timing belt off.

Those marks should line up perfectly. I took mine off and reinstalled it this past weekend and it was dead nuts on. I also had the valve cover off so I lined the cams by the marks on the cam bearing caps. Once that was set I doublechecked the timing belt cam gear with the valve cover and the marks there as well as the crank were dead nuts on. Looks like you are off one tooth.

[old guy]

that looks it could be a tooth off. When you tightened the crank pulley down, it has some play. Could the play go towards the tooth anymore?

Normally the crank pulley is pulling the TB tight on the water pump side of the belt. If any slack is introduced on that side of the belt it will move the crank pulley in a counterclockwise direction from the stamped mark behind the pulley. I do agree with you that it looks to be off by one tooth but if the car is running properly now I don't see any reason to change the cam timing.

[dirtybrd]

True, you can get about a tooth of play depending on which way you're turning the motor over.

[02A4_B6]

i mustve turned the engine over clockwise by hand about 30 times just to make sure i havent taken the valve cover off to check the rear cam marks because i just got done reinstalling the valve cover powdercoated black with new gaskets. im just going to reinstall everything the way it was. its just that im extremely meticulous with everything i do and that 5/16ths being off at the bottom urks the hell out of me. im imaging the motor running like superman if i were to advance the crank one tooth once i have the old belt off but i dont want to risk it and ruin anything.

[02A4_B6]

dougyfresh are you going to post that trick you learned in regards to the tensioner?

[AudiA4_20T]

Normally the crank pulley is pulling the TB tight on the water pump side of the belt. If any slack is introduced on that side of the belt it will move the crank pulley in a counterclockwise direction from the stamped mark behind the pulley. I do agree with you that it looks to be off by one tooth but if the car is running properly now I don't see any reason to change the cam timing.

I know I agree... Ive done about 6-7 B6 timing belts so far, and I've had it where 1 time the timing was SPOT ON, and then the last one I did was off. I would take my time to possibly slip it a tooth and see if its closer, if its not then I guess you wasted time but its much better than doing the WHOLE job again

[dirtybrd]

Just do like I said in post #18

[dougyfresh]

To add to the confusion I have a hint that I figured out on Saturday to get the right tension on the timing belt and set the distance between the gas tensioner and the eccentric pulley correctly.

~Remove front-end from vehicle
~Remove spark plugs and place a wadded up paper towel over the holes in the valve cover (to prevent debris 'FOD' from entering the engine)
~Engage parking brake (I'm assuming the vehicle is on the ground and a flat piece of ground at that.
~Place gear shifter in neutral
~Remove upper timing belt cover to expose cam gear.
~Place 19mm 12pt socket and 1/2" breaker bar on crank pulley
~Rotate engine (clockwise as if viewed directly at the front of the motor) until the crank mark lines up with the timing belt cover. At this point, the notch in the cam gear should be lined up with the mark in the valve cover. Engine is now at TDC cyl#1.
~Remove timing belt, eccentric pulley, water pump and gas tensioner.
~Install new water pump
~Install new timing belt
~Install new eccentric pulley
~Install new gas tensioner
~Bolt everything up but do not tighten the eccentric pulley nut just yet.
~Once everything is bolted up rotate the eccentric to place tension on the timing belt (the black sleeve behind the nut).
~As you are doing that take a 7mm allen wrench and place it between the gas tensioner and the arm on the eccentric. This sets 7mm of distance between the two. As you adjust the eccentric pulley to tighten the timing belt the arm will load up on the 7mm allen wrench. Timing belt is set.

(Valve cover is off in the imag. I was using the exhaust cam to make sure the head was at TDC cyl#1.)



~Rotate engine over (clockwise) by hand. Having the 7mm allen wrench in place allows you to execute this step without having to let the gas tensioner out. I always do this step to verify the timing belt is set properly. Turning over the engine by hand allows one to 'feel' if something is amiss and you can easily make adjustments without having to pull the front end apart. It is very common to be one tooth off the first time you do this. That is due to how the eccentric tensions up the belt opposite of the water pump.
~Bring the crank back to TDC cyl#1. Is the exhaust cam gear lined up with the mark on the valve cover? If so, you're golden.
~Release pin for gas tensioner and pull 7mm allen wrench out slowly.
~Job's done. Reassemble the remainder.



I made a video of this but I need to install video editing software to rotate the video 90deg before I upload it to youtube.

[02A4_B6]

i want to thank you all for your help again. i decide to keep turning the motor due to my ocd and somehow the lines now line up perfectly!!!! woo hoo!!!

[old guy]

i want to thank you all for your help again. i decide to keep turning the motor due to my ocd and somehow the lines now line up perfectly!!!! woo hoo!!!

Cool!

Have fun!

[Jeff]

Here are some pics, hope they help:



By pushing the pulley assembly UPWARD, it will put tension on the belt and pull everything together. Then rotate the loosened hydraulic tensioner back into place and replace the M6 bolt.



AFTER YOU PULL THE GRENADE PIN, allow it a few minutes for the tension to settle. Then give the crank 5-6 complete rotations and recheck the marks--they should look a lot closer than when the belt was looose.

Timing marks should look pretty dead on.

Cam Sprocket:


Camshafts:


The timing belt completed, with engine out of vehicle:

[Jeff]

I figured I'd do a DIY, since I have pictures available.

Click Here

There is a special technique I use to remove/install the belt, that will keep the timing marks intact and make the installation a LOT more seamless.

[AudiA4_20T]

Jeff, once again, thats an AEB motor lol, it is the same concept tho

[Jeff]

Jeff, once again, thats an AEB motor lol, it is the same concept tho

The concept is the same. I have both B5 and B6. Swiveling the hydraulic outward to relieve the tension on the pulley. It's much better than using a hex bit to compress the tensioner in order to remove it... it will pull on the belt and throw things off, making it a little harder to realign and install the belt.

[02A4_B6]

followed all of your instructions and everything worked out perfectly. didnt miss a tooth or anything! got the tensioner assembly in and tensioned correctly in one swift move! woo hoo!

one question though. do i leave the motor with both marks lined up at tdc or do i just rotate clockwise a little in order to start the motor safely once i have everything re-assembled?