Putting my A4 on a race track

[Oranoco]

I'm booked up to take my car on a track day at the end of Feb. I have already sorted a set of standard 16" alloys with tyres to keep my 18's safe.

I was thinking of adding an upper strut brace to keep everything tight. Anybody use one? Are they worth bothering with?

[djwimbo]

Being that our cars have the secondary bulk head (AKA Firewall), I don't know how much it would help. I've heard positive reviews from the A6 community that installs the EUR-Spec brace.

I don't have one, so I'm not sure how much I can help.

Is there better rubber on the 18's Vs the 16's? or do you not want to risk any damage?
My 16's have all season's on them, so they suck around a track.

[tamadrumr88]

Since the welds on the faux firewall have a tendency to separate it can't HURT so why not (after all, our chassis is pretty damn flexible compared to some other cars)

If you're considering stickier tires, coilovers, and a rear swaybar, for example... this can increase the stress on the chassis from high cornering loads. A strut bar won't necessarily make the car handle any better (especially in the front, if anything it'll increase the cars understeer tendencies) but it will make the car less likely to flex and become less rigid over time

[JaVa]

wel audi put them on stock in 01, not sure if its the sport only or not ut mine has one. there is a write up in audiword for the OEM one

[tamadrumr88]

The most important thing to remember is to have fun This was on stock sport suspension before I went to coilovers



Here's my other hoopty... sub-2000lbs + 210hp =


Reason I picked up something new: Audi => + = , track-prepped Honda = + =>

[andyrew]

What are your exact mods, and what kind of event are you going to? Drivers Ed?

List ALL of your mods.

Tell us if you have a specific budget you want to stay within.

Tell us the tires on your 18's and the tread life.

[djwimbo]

Stock Sport suspension, before the H-Sport sway bars... yea, it was bad

That was on All-Season Goodyears too

[quattro16]

The tosen diff mod is the first on my list for this season. And looking for slicks and wheels!!

[Oranoco]

Have to be honest my main reason for going back to the 16's is the sheer cost of replacing the 18" rubber. I'm on Continental Sport Contact 3's (225/40/18) and they sting me for £150 ($240) a corner . As I'm sure you can understand I don't fancy having to explain to my long suffering missus that I've knackered a set of tyres at that price.

I should have sorted my track car over winter but I've been refitting my kitchen which has kind of eaten the time and the money.

Mods are nothing amasing as it's my daily hack and does a lot of miles for my job but as it stands at present are
Superchip (14.5psi)
Aftermarket rear silncer/muffler
K&N cone filter with cold air ducting and heat shield
Eibach spring kit (-30mm)
B&M quickshift

The day is an open pit event with a full mixture of abilities. Although I'm not a veteran when it comes to track days I'm also not new to them having driven a few UK circuits .

[InTTruder]

If you have to use 16", get a set of 205/40x16 (Yokohama make a good set).

Good sway bar, balanced F/R
Good springs
Fresh fluids
Tune
Lower brace is more improvement than upper IMO
Bushings

I use 18's: Nitto Invo. Unless you have serious intentions, use the best YUHP you can afford on 18.

[andyrew]

Run the 16's then. Are you running stock sway bars or sport?

If sport get a larger rear sway bar (the front is good enough), and make sure you get the brace for the sway bar mount (or you go to a shop and have them weld a brace in, 1/8" flat bar works good). If stock, get the sport front bar as well.

Its much better to learn on crappy tires than to learn on sticky tires. They will get to the limit much faster and will allow you to explore the limit. They will also yell at you when your on the limit.

Do you have an upgraded DV? if not get it.

Check your alignment, Get the brake fluid replaced with the best stuff you can get, high temp racing fluid (make sure its ok for DOT brake lines), Add WaterWeter to your coolant, Check your hoses and lines for cracks and replace anything suspect. Make sure your battery is secure, if not, get it secure.

Good luck and have fun!

[Fink_tha_Audi]

LLTEK has a really nice strut bar. I have one I notice the difference when cornering and that is without any sways or even lowered. I think it would help especially on a track.

[Tifun]

my rear sway made the biggest difference. I'm still shocked by the change.

Since we b whoring track pics . Here's my whorage from the TireRack track lol.

[andyrew]

my rear sway made the biggest difference. I'm still shocked by the change.

Since we b whoring track pics . Here's my whorage from the TireRack track lol.

Thus the reason why I think the rear sway bar would be the only mod he would need if he had at least a sport front bar.

I ran my sport front bar, koni coil overs, and the H+R rear bar (with metal end links and reinforced mounting brackets) to get 1.04 G's on a skidpad with street tires.

Theres a pic of me on the skidpad.

[4inchMAF]

The tosen diff mod is the first on my list for this season.

what exactly is the point of the center dif mod?

i swapped in an S4 rear sway bar. is it much better than the stocker?

[andyrew]

more rear bias. Makes the car act more like a rwd than a fwd.

On the track understeer is very prevalent unless you have a lot of HP or this center diff mod.

[JMG]

You are going to have a blast! The most fun in my B5 ever...







Ran on my stock 16s with new rubber (forgot what I had at the time, but they weren't the best for the track), on Neuspeed/Bilstien Sport springs and shocks. Didn't do too bad, would have been more fun with a better clutch and BBK. My brakes faded pretty fast and the clutch wasn't holding up off the line, but did fine after the turns.

[Oranoco]

Yes I'm running an uprated re-circ valve, a Forge 007. I'll get on the net over lunch and see what rear bars I can find. I'm assuming what you refer to as a sway bar is what we refer to as an anti-roll bar?

As my Audi isn't caged live my track car I can't get in car video. Mate of mine is coming with his track car though so will lend him my camera mount and camera to try and get some footage.

[andyrew]

Yes I'm running an uprated re-circ valve, a Forge 007. I'll get on the net over lunch and see what rear bars I can find. I'm assuming what you refer to as a sway bar is what we refer to as an anti-roll bar?

As my Audi isn't caged live my track car I can't get in car video. Mate of mine is coming with his track car though so will lend him my camera mount and camera to try and get some footage.

Yes anti-roll bar=sway bar. Anti roll bar is the correct term, sway bar is the americanized slang. Be sure to look at metal end links as the stock one's are flimsy plastic pieces.


I made a camera mount with 2 pieces of 4' flatstock, one between the headrests (mounted by the headrest) and one connected to the rear headrest for stability. I'll get a pic of it later tonight, but it just took some careful measuring and a drill.

[bob12312357]

Me with 130K miles on the stock sport suspension. All season long wear high mileage tires that wear like iron, and just chipped. My buddy in the evo in front of me is a high 11 second car as you will notice on the straights :). Even with the Audi's shitty brakes I get it back under braking as no one knows how 2 drive. Theres a funny lil incident if you watch carefully 3/4s of the way through... With my old MR2SC I woulda schooled. Our cars are whales.

[4inchMAF]

is the S4 sway bar much bigger than the stock A4 one?

[djwimbo]

is the S4 sway bar much bigger than the stock A4 one?

Don't bother. If you upgrade, get the Hotchkis H-Sports and be done. I paid $445 for mine, and other than the chip, it's the best >$400 purchase I've done for my car.

The center diff mod helped a ton for our school's AutoX too.

Combined, the car is very agile (for ~stock weight) and very capable of being driven hard without transferring all the stress to the driver.

[4inchMAF]

Don't bother. If you upgrade, get the Hotchkis H-Sports and be done.

i ask because i already have one on...i bought the car with it already installed.
so its not much bigger/better?

[djwimbo]

i ask because i already have one on...i bought the car with it already installed.
so its not much bigger/better?

I believe the A4 is hollow, and the S4 is solid up front.
The rears I'm unsure, I know my 98.5 "sport pkg" had the 13mm rear bar, and supposedly the S4's(and facelifts) had a bigger one.

You know what I did? Exactly what the "experts" recommended, I bought H-sports. I refuse to look back and ever consider tracking my car again without them.

My only complaint is that if you have to cross non-perpendicular train tracks, you will notice some increased harshness. Driving the car daily, even your wife won't know the difference, until you throw it into a corner.

[sean1.8t]

is the S4 sway bar much bigger than the stock A4 one?

S4 sway bar = A4 sport sway bar

iirc it's like 20mm

[Tifun]

Thus the reason why I think the rear sway bar would be the only mod he would need if he had at least a sport front bar.

That was the error of me letting some teacher try to make me do things different than I normally would. Every lap I was off the track and almost got booted because of his bad tips. He got out of the car and I put down one of the best times of the day lol. That was with the rear sway btw I love that pic. My wife rocks for getting it.

[tamadrumr88]

S4 sway bar = A4 sport sway bar

iirc it's like 20mm

on my '98.5 "sport" the rear bar is NOT the S4 bar, several others can confirm that the rear swaybar (at least prior to '99.5) on the "sport" package is not the s4 bar

[andyrew]

Here is a tip for all of you.

Get the biggest rear sway bar you can. Set it to max. If you find this is to much, set it to med, if thats still too much, set it to soft. I have a feeling you will leave it on max though. Our cars are VERY easy to control on and through the limit.
When you want grip, apply a little throttle. Very similar to early 911's.

[Militant-Grunt]

My 01 has the same size bars as an S4, I checked both front / rear

[biketsai]

My 01 has the same size bars as an S4, I checked both front / rear

I think he is correct if you have the "sport" model. I think they are both 17mm.
And not all 00+ came with the stock front strut bar, mine doesnt. IMO, Ive ran 2 different upper strut bars and I dont think they have made a difference. Tires are VERY important, I dont know what I would be doing on the track with some bad tires.

[bob12312357]

I think he is correct if you have the "sport" model. I think they are both 17mm.
And not all 00+ came with the stock front strut bar, mine doesnt. IMO, Ive ran 2 different upper strut bars and I dont think they have made a difference. Tires are VERY important, I dont know what I would be doing on the track with some bad tires.

I love for shits and giggles just sliding aorund the track on all seasons. People looking at me like WTF? In their rear views as all they see is a car going sideways and hear the insanely loud squeal of the tires. Plus I think it makes you feel more comfortable when your is sliding unintended on the street. Not the fastest way around a track, but thats what I got my dedicated track bike 4. High performance tires are expensive.

[tamadrumr88]

High performance tires are expensive.

I just bought 8 Toyo RA-1's with more than 50% life left for $225 shipped... I love having a car that runs 205/50-15 tires

[sean1.8t]

I just bought 8 Toyo RA-1's with more than 50% life left for $225 shipped... I love having a car that runs 205/50-15 tires

$225 shipped for 8 tires? damn, you'd think it would be more than that just for shipping. nice pickup

[andyrew]

Pretty good shipped! I paid 430 shipped for a new set of 225 50 16 Brigestone RE01-R's (their stickiest street tire)

[tamadrumr88]

I had the opportunity to run a set of azenis rt615 tires back to back with my all-season sumitomo HTR+ tires (almost 3x the treadwear of the azenis and they only cost ~$50/ea). I didn't think the Azenis was worth the price (even though they're pretty much the best bang for the buck street tire that can also be raced on); the falkens got greasy just as fast as the HTR+ tires and I didn't notice enough of a difference in grip to justify the price increase.

I finally stepped up R-compounds (the RA-1's) this past year and I can't believe how well they wear for a 40 treadwear tire... there's no reason not to run these tires especially if I can keep getting them from tire "recyclers" at that price.