REMOTE START. . . kinda

[gpoole30]

Hello all,

I am a comp nerd and have a question you all. If you could have a remote start that did not compromise your cars security. i am looking at an idea that would allow you to send a email through a program that would set parameters like length of time and temp.

i want to know as i am going to start beta testing this soon. so just let me know.

[AudiWxGuy]

Do you think it would be cheaper to do through a phone call? That way your car won't need a constant wireless Internet connection. As far as remote starts go, it can be done. However, if you leave your car on for too long at idle after start, it may lead to problems.

[gpoole30]

Do you think it would be cheaper to do through a phone call? That way your car won't need a constant wireless Internet connection. As far as remote starts go, it can be done. However, if you leave your car on for too long at idle after start, it may lead to problems.

well as many of you know you can send a text from your computer to a cell phone. this is similar in design. and being thst you will be able to set time constrants. and i think that if i set the time to end at 15 min max like most remote starts it will be with in safe constrants.

Also we sould not have the key in you would not be able to drive off in it, if some one were to try to the second that the break was depressed it would send a message that would cause the car to shut down.. Also the message that would be sent to the car would be sent at 256 encryption. that is not un crackable, but will provide enough that all but truly pro theives will leave it alone as it will be a little to hard versus other forms of remote start.

[AudiWxGuy]

If you figure this out I'd be very interested to be a beta tester for you. I think you could be on to something here!!

[Sanjman]

sounds like a waste of time...
1) inconvenient if you dont have an immediate internet connection. If you use your phone txt msg then I guess it's okay. This would mean you would be paying some form of extra phone service which would cost ~$30/month (service + txt msging) or go with a pay-as-you-go and have to renew the service.
2)would need to either hack a mobile phone that will send out a electrical signal using some GPIO pin from the phone out to your ignition system, or develop your own controller card first capable of RXing/TXing a wireless signal at the right cellular bands then having it send out an enable signal to your car (first that GPIO pin needs to be available - free from other uses - and needs to be available externally from the phone and third your phone code needs to have access to the control of that pin)
3) I'm not sure how you are going to bypass the car immobilizer without knowing all about the security features on your key (and if it was that easy, anybody would know how to program your key), in a regular remote starter package you need the key still to go anywhere as the car will automatically shut off when you try to move it out of park.
4) To send out a 256 bit encrypted message would mean you would have to create phone code for your current phone that can first take that message, encrypt it, then send out the message, then decrypt it with the key. (do you really think this is necessary, who is going to hack your text messages to just start your car that you can't drive anyways?)

Sorry to burst your bubble (which I seem to do pretty often cuz I'm a jerk... or simply like to take things as real as I can), but you are wasting endless time and money for a product that isn't much convenient than the current products out on the market. Don't ever quit at brainstorming ideas, one day you'll get a great idea and become a multi millionaire.

[gpoole30]

sounds like a waste of time...
1) inconvenient if you dont have an immediate internet connection. If you use your phone txt msg then I guess it's okay. This would mean you would be paying some form of extra phone service which would cost ~$30/month (service + txt msging) or go with a pay-as-you-go and have to renew the service.
2)would need to either hack a mobile phone that will send out a electrical signal using some GPIO pin from the phone out to your ignition system, or develop your own controller card first capable of RXing/TXing a wireless signal at the right cellular bands then having it send out an enable signal to your car (first that GPIO pin needs to be available - free from other uses - and needs to be available externally from the phone and third your phone code needs to have access to the control of that pin)
3) I'm not sure how you are going to bypass the car immobilizer without knowing all about the security features on your key (and if it was that easy, anybody would know how to program your key), in a regular remote starter package you need the key still to go anywhere as the car will automatically shut off when you try to move it out of park.
4) To send out a 256 bit encrypted message would mean you would have to create phone code for your current phone that can first take that message, encrypt it, then send out the message, then decrypt it with the key. (do you really think this is necessary, who is going to hack your text messages to just start your car that you can't drive anyways?)

Sorry to burst your bubble (which I seem to do pretty often cuz I'm a jerk... or simply like to take things as real as I can), but you are wasting endless time and money for a product that isn't much convenient than the current products out on the market. Don't ever quit at brainstorming ideas, one day you'll get a great idea and become a multi millionaire.

well first off, i am a computer securities engineer. so i dont sweat the small stuff.

And you obviously work close to or with in view of your vehical. for the majority of the people we dont so remote start does not help you at all, and is a great secutity risk as any theif worth there salt will know that there is a valet key in a box under the dash.

with this program you could send that secure request and then know that your car will be secure but climatizing to your needs.

i think that most of us only think of the world in a view of our own daily hurddles, and i thank you for your concern, but i have already made most of the leap to a viable system i feel will become a usefull tool in the near future.

[gpoole30]

bump. . . would like more input

[bcramer]

Over-engineer much?

Explain to me what's wrong with remote start systems currently available. What is the problem you're trying to fix?

[Alkemix]

sounds like an argument!

[gpoole30]

Over-engineer much?

Explain to me what's wrong with remote start systems currently available. What is the problem you're trying to fix?

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well if you know anything about remote start in an Audi you would know that it requires that you leave your 3rd key in a ignition box inthe the dash access panel. As you aslow may know that our 3rd key will start and drive the car. so for any half-a$$ crook to steal you expensive toy all they have to do is break the glass and reach under the dash and snag the key to start your car. this senario is the reson why A4's are a high insurance risk. aslo if you are found to have added that remote start your insurance may not pay your claim, as you did not secure your vehicle.

so next time you decide to chime in please think before you type.


now i welcome any other questions as long as they are well tought out. i will have the patent work done soon and then will put out 3 prototypes for testing. i already have one volunteer, and am looking to fill the other two slots.

thank you in advance

[bcramer]

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well if you know anything about remote start in an Audi you would know that it requires that you leave your 3rd key in a ignition box inthe the dash access panel. As you aslow may know that our 3rd key will start and drive the car. so for any half-a$$ crook to steal you expensive toy all they have to do is break the glass and reach under the dash and snag the key to start your car. this senario is the reson why A4's are a high insurance risk. aslo if you are found to have added that remote start your insurance may not pay your claim, as you did not secure your vehicle.

so next time you decide to chime in please think before you type.


now i welcome any other questions as long as they are well tought out. i will have the patent work done soon and then will put out 3 prototypes for testing. i already have one volunteer, and am looking to fill the other two slots.

thank you in advance

I guess you have a bunch of sand in your e-vagina.

If you or whoever installed the remote start module in any decent way, you wouldn't be able to just "reach" up under the dash and grab the key. Because it doesn't have to be right under the dash. They make wiring for this...you can get it at different lengths even.You have an entire car to place the module in and you're going to put it in the most obvious place for a remote starter. That sir, makes you an idiot.

Anyways, you don't have to try and insult my intelligence when answering the question and which was well thought out. You should always ask yourself what problem you're trying to fix before coming up with a solution. Anyone who has half a brain knows that...why limit yourself to one solution when you haven't even vetted the problem.

Good luck with your shenanigans.

p.s. I'm real sure that insurance companies base their rates off of the chance that someone would put a remote start in their car.

[gpoole30]

I guess you have a bunch of sand in your e-vagina.

If you or whoever installed the remote start module in any decent way, you wouldn't be able to just "reach" up under the dash and grab the key. Because it doesn't have to be right under the dash. They make wiring for this...you can get it at different lengths even.You have an entire car to place the module in and you're going to put it in the most obvious place for a remote starter. That sir, makes you an idiot.

Anyways, you don't have to try and insult my intelligence when answering the question and which was well thought out. You should always ask yourself what problem you're trying to fix before coming up with a solution. Anyone who has half a brain knows that...why limit yourself to one solution when you haven't even vetted the problem.

Good luck with your shenanigans.

p.s. I'm real sure that insurance companies base their rates off of the chance that someone would put a remote start in their car.

wow it looks like you can read, i am so sure that your ma and pa are happy.

first off if you wreck you car and insurance finds that key, your policy can be terminated, most deallers will not work on a car that has been equipted in such a manor. and as for placement it doesnto matter, as it is always in the "on" postition, so after the ingition lock on your car is broke, it will drive> so please agains tell me why you are willing to trust your 35k + inverstment to a crappy $88 -200 toy. also there are more things you can do when you work inside the existing inferstruture of your audi's programing than when you use bargin basement genarics. i am glad that you think the way you do but i also do not care, i just hope your mindless and baseless drible does not poisin the minds of smarter peolpe.

i will keep intersted parties up to speed, and like i said i welcome legitimate concerns.

Lastly, i am tring not to just do a remote start but a comprehensive imformation system. as all the things come up i will release them, and i thank those out there in the world that believe we can always make a better mouse trap.

[bcramer]

wow it looks like you can read, i am so sure that your ma and pa are happy.

first off if you wreck you car and insurance finds that key, your policy can be terminated, most deallers will not work on a car that has been equipted in such a manor. and as for placement it doesnto matter, as it is always in the "on" postition, so after the ingition lock on your car is broke, it will drive> so please agains tell me why you are willing to trust your 35k + inverstment to a crappy $88 -200 toy. also there are more things you can do when you work inside the existing inferstruture of your audi's programing than when you use bargin basement genarics. i am glad that you think the way you do but i also do not care, i just hope your mindless and baseless drible does not poisin the minds of smarter peolpe.

i will keep intersted parties up to speed, and like i said i welcome legitimate concerns.

Lastly, i am tring not to just do a remote start but a comprehensive imformation system. as all the things come up i will release them, and i thank those out there in the world that believe we can always make a better mouse trap.

I hope you speak better than you write.

p.s. If you can't take criticism of your ideas, you should not post them on an open forum and ask for feedback.

[Brent27]

would it be easier to create a phone application then using that be able to send the message through the cars bluetooth system or would you have to do wiring in order for the vehicle to recieve the signal from the phone while the vehicles off.

I am not a software guru, but just my question/thought on your OP...

[Quattro]

i am no car audio expert/alarm specialist, but when they installed my remote start, they did not leave my car with the on position, if I am understanding correctly. Most remote start system, use your ignition wires and trigger a sequence when you engage the start button. I am not familiar with my current b7 A4 as how the remote works, I assume the key has an internal chip that sends out a signal to start and drive the car. I would assume this, but not certain if it is true.

I still don't understand what your new alarm system would do that is different than others. What I assume, once again, is your alarm system will bypass the Audi's mobilizer meaning you wouldn't need to have the key anywhere near the car to remote start it. You would also, send/receive signals when someone tries to break into your car. You will use your phone to turn on your car?

What type of parameters are you referring to? What time and temp? Time to start on/off, cold start?


Personal belief: I don't know why someone would remote start their car without being able to see your car in somewhat plain sight. I mean its great to have it, I used it for many years and had no problem, but when I used that feature it was within plain view. So while I walked to my car, it turned on and warmed up. I mean, if a thief wanted to wait for you to remote start your car, I am sure they would sucker punch you and take your key and drive off. Once again, another assumption. Most remote start alarms have built in kill switches to prevent this.

Now, if you are making something that you can send messages via your phone to turn it on, that might be different, but I believe it has been done already. I am in no way discrediting your idea, seems interesting and would love to hear more about it. I am no guru, but I have friends who have specialized in car audio for over 10 years and tell me a thing or too.

Anyhow, love to see an update and how it all works.

-Randy

[gpoole30]

I hope you speak better than you write.

p.s. If you can't take criticism of your ideas, you should not post them on an open forum and ask for feedback.

its not the criticism theat boothers me at all. you dont get far in my job, or int this field by having thin skin.

what bothers me is flippent remarks that will sow seeds of miss information. thats all.

ps "I dont think that it matters how you spell, as much as it matters to the content your message carries." President Andrew Jackson

[gpoole30]

i am no car audio expert/alarm specialist, but when they installed my remote start, they did not leave my car with the on position, if I am understanding correctly. Most remote start system, use your ignition wires and trigger a sequence when you engage the start button. I am not familiar with my current b7 A4 as how the remote works, I assume the key has an internal chip that sends out a signal to start and drive the car. I would assume this, but not certain if it is true.

I still don't understand what your new alarm system would do that is different than others. What I assume, once again, is your alarm system will bypass the Audi's mobilizer meaning you wouldn't need to have the key anywhere near the car to remote start it. You would also, send/receive signals when someone tries to break into your car. You will use your phone to turn on your car?

What type of parameters are you referring to? What time and temp? Time to start on/off, cold start?


Personal belief: I don't know why someone would remote start their car without being able to see your car in somewhat plain sight. I mean its great to have it, I used it for many years and had no problem, but when I used that feature it was within plain view. So while I walked to my car, it turned on and warmed up. I mean, if a thief wanted to wait for you to remote start your car, I am sure they would sucker punch you and take your key and drive off. Once again, another assumption. Most remote start alarms have built in kill switches to prevent this.

Now, if you are making something that you can send messages via your phone to turn it on, that might be different, but I believe it has been done already. I am in no way discrediting your idea, seems interesting and would love to hear more about it. I am no guru, but I have friends who have specialized in car audio for over 10 years and tell me a thing or too.

Anyhow, love to see an update and how it all works.

-Randy

you are spot on in you assession of the situation in most parts.

As for the parameters. . . Time: the amount of time up to 30min you would like to run your car before it will requre the physical key.

Temp: is the car enviornment that you would like set i.e; degrees in F of C depending on your location.

the system will have other functions that most find helpful such as a door unlock/ lock feature, window control in most cars, and other features.

[gpoole30]

would it be easier to create a phone application then using that be able to send the message through the cars bluetooth system or would you have to do wiring in order for the vehicle to recieve the signal from the phone while the vehicles off.

I am not a software guru, but just my question/thought on your OP...

i like your thinking. but the only prob is not every car have bluetooth. also bluetooth is a personal area network so the area is too small.

[aaron1085]

i am always up for new products, sounds like a great idea. Windows will be buying you out in no time.

[eMacPaul]

I'm curious what you would use for communication? Would you wire a cellphone into the car?

Also, something I've been wondering about, Audi called me shortly after my car rolled over 5k miles to set up the service... so does the car already have something in it that calls home, or did they just get lucky that it happened close to 6 months after I bought it and they would have called anyway?

[bcramer]

I'm curious what you would use for communication? Would you wire a cellphone into the car?

Also, something I've been wondering about, Audi called me shortly after my car rolled over 5k miles to set up the service... so does the car already have something in it that calls home, or did they just get lucky that it happened close to 6 months after I bought it and they would have called anyway?

The latter.

[Grobby1]

I havent been on AZ in sometime due to work... but this was an interesting topic. I installed remote starts / alarms on 100's of different kinds of vehicles. So here are some answers to a few things that were above:

3rd key - It is true that you have a 3rd key in a "security bypass box" however most remote start places will sell you a blank key for VERY little program this uncut key to your car and put that in the box. Ok if you dont want to pay for the key that is fine lets say you use your spare key. First off all of the security bypass modules I have worked with are all held together with screws. You take 4 screws out of the corner of the box and put the key in and replace the screws. On top of that if the installer has any idea what he is doing this is wire tied to the ignition harness (screws toward the harness) of the remote start which is in turn wire tied to a wire harness underneath your dash. So if they were to break a window they would have to 1) cut the remote start harness down...which I can assure you can be VERY challenging some times. 2) Have a phillips screwdriver to open the security bypass box. 3) Only someone VERY VERY ballsy would attempt this. I would be time consuming and there is NO guarantee that the key will be cut and if they are educated enough to pull this off (which I would have my doubts) but none the less if they were, there would no gurantee this would work and there is no way to know unless you open the security bypass module and look.

Ignition Lock - When a car is remote started the ignition lock is still engaged. Since no key is ever put in the ignition to unlock it it remains locked.

Driving off in a remote started vehicle - First off you would have to break the ignition lock, secondly as soon as the brake was pressed the vehicle would shut off. The only way this can be bypassed is if the "brake" wire is disconnected. This can be done however depending on the vehicle it can be very hard or very easy.

[PolishPete]

its not the criticism theat boothers me at all. you dont get far in my job, or int this field by having thin skin.

what bothers me is flippent remarks that will sow seeds of miss information. thats all.

ps "I dont think that it matters how you spell, as much as it matters to the content your message carries." President Andrew Jackson

I don't really have anything to add to this thread on-topic, so with that said, I would just like to kindly comment to the OP that you might want to adhere to the bolded portion of your text.

An insurance company WILL NOT decline your claim if they find out you had remote start in your car. That, was mis-information. I work for the largest insurance company in the US. Spoke to a claims rep, and he verified that no where in our guidelines filed with the state will it allow us to deny a claim because someone didn't "secure" their car by leaving a key inside (the remote start). If you leave the key in the ignition, with the door open, and walk away...then yes, you are negligent. A remote start is not negligent.

I just wanted to clarify this as there is TONS of mis-information regarding insurance. I blame the teachers. Insurance is not taught well in school at all.

Ok, back on topic. I'd love remote start. Had it on my Mustang and Colorado, but don't know if I'd put one on the Audi unless it was factory. The text messaging idea does sound cool though. (ok, so my post was a little on topic)

[Jay B7]

I havent been on AZ in sometime due to work... but this was an interesting topic. I installed remote starts / alarms on 100's of different kinds of vehicles. So here are some answers to a few things that were above:

3rd key - It is true that you have a 3rd key in a "security bypass box" however most remote start places will sell you a blank key for VERY little program this uncut key to your car and put that in the box. Ok if you dont want to pay for the key that is fine lets say you use your spare key. First off all of the security bypass modules I have worked with are all held together with screws. You take 4 screws out of the corner of the box and put the key in and replace the screws. On top of that if the installer has any idea what he is doing this is wire tied to the ignition harness (screws toward the harness) of the remote start which is in turn wire tied to a wire harness underneath your dash. So if they were to break a window they would have to 1) cut the remote start harness down...which I can assure you can be VERY challenging some times. 2) Have a phillips screwdriver to open the security bypass box. 3) Only someone VERY VERY ballsy would attempt this. I would be time consuming and there is NO guarantee that the key will be cut and if they are educated enough to pull this off (which I would have my doubts) but none the less if they were, there would no gurantee this would work and there is no way to know unless you open the security bypass module and look.

Ignition Lock - When a car is remote started the ignition lock is still engaged. Since no key is ever put in the ignition to unlock it it remains locked.

Driving off in a remote started vehicle - First off you would have to break the ignition lock, secondly as soon as the brake was pressed the vehicle would shut off. The only way this can be bypassed is if the "brake" wire is disconnected. This can be done however depending on the vehicle it can be very hard or very easy.

I second that. I too have installed hundreds of remote start systems. The harness from the screwed box to the vehicles transponder system is usually all black and very hard to spot when you're under the dash. it takes a lot of tracing to find it. Also, if someone's going to steal your car, they're just going to tow it.

[Grishbok]

i think it would be incredible and unique to have a system that allows you to use the features of your car from your cell phone. Lets see here, track your car with your cell phone application? check! Monitor ambient air conditions via the cars thermometer? check! Getting a text message from the system when the tow alarm goes off, or if someone gives it a love tap? Viper systems only work so far, this system could use the cell phone network to eliminate that limitation. Imagine you are like alot of people and park at a metro station, taking the metro in to town. You are now 30 miles from your car. Lets say someone goes to steal your car. If successful, time is critical, if this system sent you a msg and said "yo, im being stolen... son" youd be right on top of it. Thats peace of mind i would definately pay for.

If you want to go haywire, you can use the cell phone network to stream video. Utilizing a small camera, stream that video feed onto your blackberry and watch people playing around near your car from your cell phone. Attach a PA system and use cell phones voice memo service to scare people from miles away. its completely doable, just needs to be done.

[gpoole30]

I second that. I too have installed hundreds of remote start systems. The harness from the screwed box to the vehicles transponder system is usually all black and very hard to spot when you're under the dash. it takes a lot of tracing to find it. Also, if someone's going to steal your car, they're just going to tow it.

o tlaked to my Statefarm agent, she told me that if you car is stolen and you are found to have a modified ingnition, or to have a working key left in your vehicle that their policy it to fight the claim.

Now you might win you might not, but most companies have deeper pockets than us, so its not wise.

also i have talked to many installers, and they have all said, what i am saying:

that i am not trying to stop the rookie thief and but for a professional the key in a box is not a problem.

all on has to do is break the steering lock, use the key(cut or uncut) to trick the transponder.

[gpoole30]

now i have put together a system that is an upgrade for us with out nav. it will look OEM, and be a touchsceen. what i am trying to find out is there a market for this. i have a market in Eastern Europe, so i am going to move ahead with this idea. i just want to see if you guy want to get in on this.


i will post the installed pics . . .

[MichiganAudiDvr]

I'm interested. Let's see some pics, PM me.

And, FYI, most people, depending on where and how you live can't and don't want to be close enough to the car to see it when you use your remote start. For instance, at work, in an office building, car in structure somewhere or in a huge lot getting snowed on. Most want the remote start to turn on the car while still working, finish out the last 10 min of the day, and walk out to a warm car - all without leaving the building to do so.

[gpoole30]

I'm interested. Let's see some pics, PM me.

And, FYI, most people, depending on where and how you live can't and don't want to be close enough to the car to see it when you use your remote start. For instance, at work, in an office building, car in structure somewhere or in a huge lot getting snowed on. Most want the remote start to turn on the car while still working, finish out the last 10 min of the day, and walk out to a warm car - all without leaving the building to do so.

you hit the nail on the head. i will have it up soon.

[Sanjman]

http://www.the12volt.com/installbay/...ID~100917~PN~1 found a good link on this stuff...

well first off, i am a computer securities engineer. so i dont sweat the small stuff.

And you obviously work close to or with in view of your vehical. for the majority of the people we dont so remote start does not help you at all, and is a great secutity risk as any theif worth there salt will know that there is a valet key in a box under the dash.

with this program you could send that secure request and then know that your car will be secure but climatizing to your needs.

i think that most of us only think of the world in a view of our own daily hurddles, and i thank you for your concern, but i have already made most of the leap to a viable system i feel will become a usefull tool in the near future.

OK... but... you saying that you don't "sweat the small stuff" doesn't answer any of the concerns I pointed out. What you are talking about takes a team of engineers to design. Unless you are taking something that has already been built from a different manufacturer and reintroducing it or modifying it, then I can see something like this feasible. Let us know what you got for us...

[gpoole30]

http://www.the12volt.com/installbay/...ID~100917~PN~1 found a good link on this stuff...



OK... but... you saying that you don't "sweat the small stuff" doesn't answer any of the concerns I pointed out. What you are talking about takes a team of engineers to design. Unless you are taking something that has already been built from a different manufacturer and reintroducing it or modifying it, then I can see something like this feasible. Let us know what you got for us...

well i can see where you are wondering how it will work. but i am looking to patent my process, so i can elaborate on how it is done. If the patent does not go through i am holding on to as a trade secret. i own a couple small businesses so i have to offer something to keep my customers.

i will put together a video and some shots so that you guys can see it and watch it work. if i get enough of a push i will put together a kit that can be shipped out and at resonible prices.

so for now stay tuned, and i will post some updates. also it has be awesome to see a good response to the topic keep it up!

[gpoole30]

well i will post the updates as soon as i finish the install. for a reference it is similar to the Passat CC

. . . oh its about the high tech nag / remote start

[Sanjman]

how soon man? I know how patents work... so I don't get what you are saying... you submit a disclosure, if it's a new idea/process then it gets approved to the next step... if the patent does not go through then what you have is an idea that someone else has already patented... honestly it's no "trade secret" by then. And finally if you decide to go with the project and sell it, you are infringing on a patent and you will get sued... so how about you just tell us where you are at?

I'm figuring you as a load of crap so hopefully you prove me wrong.

[gpoole30]

how soon man? I know how patents work... so I don't get what you are saying... you submit a disclosure, if it's a new idea/process then it gets approved to the next step... if the patent does not go through then what you have is an idea that someone else has already patented... honestly it's no "trade secret" by then. And finally if you decide to go with the project and sell it, you are infringing on a patent and you will get sued... so how about you just tell us where you are at?

I'm figuring you as a load of crap so hopefully you prove me wrong.

and to set you streight on this, if an idea gets rejected its not always because it has ben done, its rejected 80% of the time because it is not novel. meaning it cant be patented becuase it is not something that only the inventer can to and has access to such as gravity. Gravity can play a role in your idea but cannot be the root of your idea.

So thanks for your input, but my wife is a in the patent Law, also and we have retainted a patent attorny, so i will go with their advice. Also a patent only gives you the right to sue, or get money damages if you find that your idea is being poached. If someone violates my patent, i have to prove it(aka Blackberry about 2 -3 years ago).

so what makes you a patent guru? are you a lawyer? should i retain your services? lol

First off in the rest of the world its first to file, and we did that in the countries of interest. in the US on the other hand you have to prove the idea is novel and it is yours, that tends to take time.

Secondly i am not patenting an item, i am patenting a system. so the tech is not mine to patent(but it is currently not patented& am a liecenced expediter of all of the compnents of the system), its the way in which you put together the items that make it novel.

so like the new NIKE hat out with the eyelets prove its not the item tits the way you patent it. ( a man in omaha came up with the idea and filed a patent, but not the right kind, so NIKE filed the proper patent and is making millions on his idea.)

Lastly, i am not here to prove you wrong, but i will post my update on the web, and if current deals work out you will be able to make a trip to your local Audi Midwest Audi dealer and have it installed.

so tell me again how i can be infringing? thanks

[brownishwater]

how soon man? I know how patents work... so I don't get what you are saying... you submit a disclosure, if it's a new idea/process then it gets approved to the next step... if the patent does not go through then what you have is an idea that someone else has already patented... honestly it's no "trade secret" by then. And finally if you decide to go with the project and sell it, you are infringing on a patent and you will get sued... so how about you just tell us where you are at?

I'm figuring you as a load of crap so hopefully you prove me wrong.

Just leave him alone and let him do his thing. If his remote start works, then great, but if it doesnt then we will be no worse off then we are now so who really cares. You are not the government so it shouldnt make any difference whether he is infinging on a patent or not