No, not another rear sway question...

[RVT]

OK, I see the rear sway thing beat to death, but why can I find no info on front sways?
Even the Noob section avoids even mentioning the word "front sway"

Do they even exist? Is it some sort of taboo to mention "front sway"? Maybe a top secret Audi design never to be told to the Japanese market?
If someone were to slip and tell me what "combination" of sways came on each package (front and rear), would they then be living in fear of their lives?


Another twilight zone topic. "Front to Rear weight ratio" for each A4.

Any info?
(Pssst I promise not to tell Mitsubishi! Honest! )

peace
Vince

[Subaru71]

OK, I see the rear sway thing beat to death, but why can I find no info on front sways?
Even the Noob section avoids even mentioning the word "front sway"

Do they even exist? Is it some sort of taboo to mention "front sway"? Maybe a top secret Audi design never to be told to the Japanese market?
If someone were to slip and tell me what "combination" of sways came on each package (front and rear), would they then be living in fear of their lives?


Another twilight zone topic. "Front to Rear weight ratio" for each A4.

Any info?
(Pssst I promise not to tell Mitsubishi! Honest! )

peace
Vince

I'm guessing the front sways are adequate for our cars.. Someone should make a under brace of some sort though..

[eskimopunk]

the front sways are huge lol. don't know the exact diameter but it's a lot bigger than the rear from what i looked at last time my car was in the air

[whartung]

I believe the front sway is upwards of 30mm. At least on an S4. Aren't the H-sport RS4 sway bars something along the lines of 35mm front and like 26 or 28 mm rear?

to answer your question though, the front sway bar is entirely replaceable.

[barkerd427]

The front sway is fine the way it is. Audi puts a big front sway on to induce oversteer, which is why we put a bigger rear sway on to counter that. You can find the weight distribution on google. And WTF, do you really think Audi is competing with mitsubishi. That would be VW.

[Grishbok]

front sway bars add understeer..

Understeer is worse than oversteer.

[RVT]

OK, so no one can simply answer my question?
whartung stepped up as the boldest of the bunch with "I believe".

(Whartung, I hope that offering does not place you or your family in immediate danger... )

Cold hard facts are all i am looking for please....

Thanks all!
V

[Grishbok]

allow me to refer you to my prior post.

[elwigglero]

OK, so no one can simply answer my question?
whartung stepped up as the boldest of the bunch with "I believe".

(Whartung, I hope that offering does not place you or your family in immediate danger... )

Cold hard facts are all i am looking for please....

Thanks all!
V

Front sway is the same on a4 as it is on s4/rs4, iirc. Beefing this up will induce more understeer. This isn't talked about because noone wants more understeer. We try to reduce it by replacing the stock rear sway bar with a slightly meatier one.

What does Mitsubishi have to do with anything?

[cleaver]

Front sway for non-sport models is 31mm and for sport and S models was rumored to be 32mm. I bought a used sport front bar for my non-sport 3.2 Avant to see if there was any difference and didn't notice any change. It measured out at 31.5 with my calipers. It should be noted that the front bar is hollow, so who knows what diameter what would equate to if it were solid. (I'd already upgraded to an RS4 22mm rear bar).
As for the front/rear weight distribution, Audi's published figure is 58%/42% for the non-S-line 3.2 Avant.
Hope that helps,
Cleaver
P.S. RVT, I notice you're in the PNW; I live in Shoreline, WA and was given an S-line rear bar (18mm) with the used front bar. I'll give it to you free if you want to meet sometime.

[slingblade]

front sway bars add understeer..

Understeer is worse than oversteer.

Manufacturers tend to build a little understeer into cars since its 'safer' for normal people driving. Understeer is easier to correct for people that don't know how to drive since they tend to stand on the brakes (not good in an oversteer situation) - the car will slow down then either correct itself or plow into whatever they were pointing toward, just slower ;)

Adding a stiffer rear bar ballances out the car or will even put the car to a tendancey to oversteer.

[RVT]

DING DING DING
HOORAY Cleaver! You’re now my favorite Audi owner!

So for the record so far:
The stock A4 Avant is a 31mm front with a 16mm rear
A4 Avant 3,2 Front to Rear is 58/42 (FWD & AWD?)
Cleaver I take it yours is AWD? (Thanks for the offer by the way might talk to ya a tad later...)
Do you know if this the same for both Quattro and non Quattro version Sedans?
Now how ‘bout the S and the RS?

Wow that weight ratio is really disappointing....

For all others ...

Please understand why I find this question so frustrating:
What I asked for was actual sway measurements.
A4 2.0T Sedan FWD. F/R
A4 2.0T Sedan AWD F/R
A4 3.2 Sedan FWD. F/R
A4 2.0T Sedan AWD F/R
A4 Avant 2.0T FWD F/R
A4 Avant 2.0T AWD F/R
A4 Avant FWD F/R
A4 Avant AWD F/R
S4 (Was both FWD/AWD offered?)
RS4 (Was both FWD/AWD offered?)
Diesel models?

I would like to build a list of COMPLETE OEM sways available to work with, that may (or may not) easily swap between A4s.
I suspect we can find variations in size between engine models too, so that may be more info for the chart.

The Avant adds another twist... Are the front and rears interchangeable with the sedans?


My question is not exactly easy, but the hard data should be out there somewhere, which is why I asked.

What I get is:

• front sways are adequate”
• front sways are huge
• believe the front sway is upwards of
• The front sway is fine
• front sway bars add understeer
• allow me to refer you to my prior post.
• Front sway is the same on a4 as it is on s4/rs4

I'm new to the whole Audi thing, and don't really want to anger people here, but I did not ask for personal opinions(yet), just data... :^P

As with all the searches on this topic here and other forums, this type of solid info is elusive at best. Can we fix that for us Noobs?


Peace
Vince

[Glassnpowder98]

Wow that weight ratio is really disappointing....Vince

What is even more disappointing is that the engine is mounted forward of the front axle creating even more understeer. And Cleaver has it right. From the factory, the a4 has a lot of understeer. The cheapest and easiest way to get rid of some of this understeer is by adding a rear sway bar. If you stiffen up the front sway bar and not the rear, you will just add more understeer. Also, if you were to stiffen both the front and rear the same amount, you would have a car with less body roll, but it would still understeer. If you look into the Hotchkis s4 sway bar set, it comes with a stiffer front sway bar that is 60% stiffer than stock and an adjustable rear sway bar that is 145% or 215% stiffer than stock. In theory, this should help reduce body roll in the front while stiffening up the rear even more to have a ratio more rear biased than stock to try and reduce understeer and make the car handle more neutral.

[wayneB7]

I'm new to the whole Audi thing, and don't really want to anger people here, but I did not ask for personal opinions(yet), just data... :^P

As with all the searches on this topic here and other forums, this type of solid info is elusive at best. Can we fix that for us Noobs?

Don't know if my thread on S4 rear sway bars prompted your selection of thread title, but I too was looking for data on what appears to be an elusive subject.

The reason why people might be replying subjectively is because they don't have data -- I can understand that. Just like in my case, everyone seems to love the RS4 rear sway bar so the responses on the S4 bar is slow in coming.

At the end of the day, and in my opinion, some subjective responses still trump no responses at all.

[Grishbok]

Please understand why I find this question so frustrating:
What I asked for was actual sway measurements.
A4 2.0T Sedan FWD. F/R
A4 2.0T Sedan AWD F/R
A4 3.2 Sedan FWD. F/R
A4 2.0T Sedan AWD F/R
A4 Avant 2.0T FWD F/R
A4 Avant 2.0T AWD F/R
A4 Avant FWD F/R
A4 Avant AWD F/R
S4 (Was both FWD/AWD offered?)
RS4 (Was both FWD/AWD offered?)
Diesel models?

I would like to build a list of COMPLETE OEM sways available to work with, that may (or may not) easily swap between A4s.
I suspect we can find variations in size between engine models too, so that may be more info for the chart.

if you had said this in the first post, probably woulda been more inclined to help locate the info.

oh and all that info you want is currently sitting, waiting for you, on the genuine audi replacement parts website.

of course, now that i think about it, if its a game of mix n match and spending the money to finely tune the suspension, you would end up going with a fully adjustable sway bar to accomodate the needs and particular environment.

[whartung]

as was said before me, apparently all A4's are 31mm front sway bar.
the rear sway bar for non-sline is 16mm
the rear sway bar for sline is 18mm.
the rear sway bar for the S4 is 20mm.
and the rear sway bar for the RS4 is 22mm.

I bumped my car from the 20mm to the 22mm, and the difference was subtle, but there. I then gave my buddy's non sline A4 my 20mm, and the difference was much more dramatic.

[RVT]

The reason why people might be replying subjectively is because they don't have data --
At the end of the day, and in my opinion, some subjective responses still trump no responses at all.

I will humbly agree, provided the one giving the subjective response has enough experience to back it. After supporting sites like this for over 15 years, I find more often than not that 90% of the posters lack anything but the most basic technical knowledge or real life experience, and finding the few reliable 10% takes time. It is those few I always seek, and learn to respect. I'm sure to find several here...

if you had said this in the first post, probably woulda been more inclined to help locate the info.

oh and all that info you want is currently sitting, waiting for you, on the genuine audi replacement parts website.

My apologies for not placing better emphasis on my needs. It was a tad vague after reviewing it.

As I had been reading "sway" posts for days, I did not want to walk up and swat the proverbial hornet’s nest as I saw this as a point of serious anger for many of you when dealing with noobs.

As for the reference to "genuine Audi replacement parts website.", I have not yet found the site you mention. I take it it has an IPB (Illustrated Parts Breakdown) and parts list?
URL please?

I promise to be a tad more descriptive in future posts, (Although I have been known to sit here with a few pints in me, and at that point I retract all promises and just hope I don't make a total a$$ of myself.)

Thank you all for responding. If any of you know of another size OEM front sway other than 31mm, please keep me posted. Maybe Grishboks web site reference will end the question for me once and for all.

Keep it shiny side up
Vince

(Yeash Wait till I start asking 'bout factory spring size/rates/heights!)

[eskimopunk]

http://www.genuinevwaudiparts.com

[Grishbok]

im wrong, http://www.genuinevwaudiparts.com has the breakaway illustrations and part #'s but no specifics on the item diameter.

[RVT]

Cool,
So although this site does not list part number (or did I miss it somewhere?) I see 5 (maybe 7) separate listing for front sways. (Including those on the Cabriolet)
No reference to the rs4 to be found, so who knows whats there.

Getting this breakdown in actual Audi part numbers would help sort out if the bars are simply double listed or not. Any such site out there?

Can I assume the entire "4" line uses compatable sways (same shape and mounting?)

V

[Slo.Mo.Shun.]

Ill do some research with ETKA and Ill get back to you guys in a few.

[rnp614]

So you want a bigger front sway?!

[NorcalPB]

Just for kicks went to look through my front wheel to see how big the front sway actually is. Holy crap that things as big as my c*ck!

[wayneB7]

I then gave my buddy's non sline A4 my 20mm, and the difference was much more dramatic.

This will be my situation when i get my S4 rear bar. Good to hear of the dramatic change in store for me.

[Erocko]

I am gonna try to put my front and rear sways on in the next week, so we'll see. I have a FWD and the H&R sway bar set, it comes with 32mm front bar & 20mm rear bar. I hope the understeer doesn't kill me with the front bar. Should be a big improvement for me, since my car is non-Sline, with the 16mm rear sway.

[RVT]

So you want a bigger front sway?!

I don't think at any point this was said....

My research has only begun. The more part options I have, the greater the possibilities.
Besides, junkyards are my friend....