2.7T timing belt failure

[RomanA6]

question

when t-belt goes, what goes with it?

this is a very long story, not my fault, but there is no way to fix this other then out of my pocket

so what goes with the belt?

0 interference engine - so what? bent valves? head rebuild?

I know my 944 has 0 interference, and t-belt just failed as well

sucks; 944 gets fixed first though

both cars were at idle when the car shut off and wouldn't start again; so I'm really hoping to just put new belt on and give it a listen and hear what it sounds like

I know it's a long shot, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed; if anything - new head for the 944 is fairly cheap (under $300) so either way 944 gets fixed first.

But I don't want to neglect the 2.7T either. It's been sitting for a while now, almost 2 years too.

So in any case. For the Porsche, guys are saying that most likely bent valves; car at idle - no piston damage or anything; so I'm wondering what about 2.7T?

[Das General]

Well, you pretty much fubar your motor. Ask Frimmel, his timing belt went and so did his motor. There is a real, real, real small chance (about .001 percent), that you didn't thrash your motor.

[2001S4NY]

timing belt brakes your valves are hitting the pistons, your timing belt skips your valves are hitting the pistons also. There is not enough clearance on these engine to prevent this. What i seen from timing belts breaking is all the intake valves will be bent and the engine will sounds like a drill with no compression

[RomanA6]

well, frimmel had his own problems with that car, lol

so there is no hope for this block?

looks like its going to be slower then I thought to get it back on the road

I know that if the belt goes, valves hit the piston = fubar; on the 944 it's supposed to be the same thing; both cars were in neutral when died and would not start back up at all, so I can't say anything about the noise

so pretty much, get a new belt kit, put it on, try to start, if it works - good, but prepare for the worst?

that's the plan for 944 as well; put new belt on, turn on and give it to listen, if it's noisy = new head

[RomanA6]

btw - car turned over normally like when starting, just wouldnt actually start

[Das General]

Well, take the head off and take a look. Odds are you valves are bent and your pistons are nicked. I would do that before I purchased a new kit. Or do a compression test, that could also give you an idea.

[haus4]

like these guys said above. Your chance of having the engine messed up is 99.99% You have two options. Either A) take apart engine of your choice and see whats bad, then replace and put it back together. Or B) if your not that mechanically inclined buy a new engine and have it put in. or C) sell one of the cars to pay for the other car's repairs.

[RomanA6]

Never really felt like digging into the Audi that much.

944 is much easier to fix, so that will get done first, and then we'll see.

The A6 already has a new transmission on it, but can't finish that car because of the belt. Didn't even know the belt was bad. The whole front end was taken off and everything, just never bothered looking. Then when new tranny went on, took a look, and said "Daaaaaaaaaamn!"

So as far as parting it out - just not worth it. It's paid for. And it's been there for 2 years. Might as well take my time and put it back together.

2001 S4 - and I thinking of you, or someone else, who has a shop in NYC area and did work for people in forums? how hard is it to find a good 2.7T?

I guess now, once the weather warms up, will fix the 944, and then start taking the A6 apart.

[GunSupplier]

Just curious, but how many miles did it have..?

[RomanA6]

Just curious, but how many miles did it have..?

right now it sits with something like 117k? maybe just over 120k?

I hate to say it, but it was my first manual car; and there are some things that I shouldn't have done with it had I known better; but it was always well taken care off

it started to overheat, and I was told by "mechanic" that he fixed that problem and put in the belt as well; when transmission started acting up, he said he "fixed" it too

all of which turned out to be totally bogus

but there is nothing I could or can do about it, not then, and not now

so I'm just sucking it up and paying for it

I'm not looking for legal advice, or anyone to say to go after the mechanic, it's really pointless, so please - don't even bother

for what it's worth - the car is definetly worth fixing; and from now on, to the best of my ability, will try to do the work myself with help of brother and my dad

and, already found a new mechanic, he's been working on Audi's for a while now; drives an A6 avant himself; put in the transmission for me

there is also a lot of support in local automotive forum and I'm sure anything I need help with tools or man-power wise I could get from there; as per this thread alone - thanks Luke!

and this isn't about 944 either, it's not that hard to work on

I just wanted an idea of where to start with the A6 when I get around to it; this is also the reason I was pondering a 4.2 V8 swap from a 4.2 A6, but it will probably not fit due to engine size

[GetAwayFromMe]

Do a compression test first but since it's been sitting for 2 years it might have more problems by now. Even if everything is ok it might not start for a different stupid reason. It's just how these cars are. If you dont have any compression dont bother putting the belt on. You can find a used motor from $1000-$1500 and just do that because rebuilding the heads is $$ and if your block is damaged than you are looking at more $$.

If this was my car i would pull the heads and 1. If it's only bent valves i would get the heads rebuild. 2. If the pistons and or block is damaged than i would get a used motor. Just my .02

[okkim]

Dont' turn the engine without new belt! There is no point to hit valves to the pistons any more. Put the new belt and see if there is compression.

Anyway, you most probably have to remove heads and change some valves. I guess that because the engine was idle, there is nothing else broken.

[Brian@AR]

From what you have said so far I would not even turn the motor over with the starter. You will most likely do more harm then good. If you think the timing belt is bad or there is no belt on it, then you should get a new belt and set the cam timing with everything back at top dead center. Turn the everything over buy hand and very slowly. If it doesn't turn then start taking the engine apart. If it all gets back to top dead center and you get the new belt on with it timed, then start doing a leak down test. This will tell you if you have bent valves or problems with the bottom end. If you get no less then 10 to 15% leak down then you could try to start the engine but I doubt you will even get to that point. Best of luck with the car.

[quattroSD]

right now it sits with something like 117k? maybe just over 120k?

Ignoring timing belt on the 2.7t until 117k(+)?????? Hmmm.

[Big Boost]

Well, you pretty much fubar your motor. Ask Frimmel, his timing belt went and so did his motor. There is a real, real, real small chance (about .001 percent), that you didn't thrash your motor.

My timing belt was cut by a bolt that somehow fell behind my timing cover. It wrecked the cam gear and the valves hit the pistons. The middle intake valves were the only ones that were bent. I replaced those, but only after dissambleming both heads and checking for straightness on the deck. I was really lucky, blessed actually that I just nicked the pistons and bent the valves. I was the .001 that survived catastrophe.

[RomanA6]

Ignoring timing belt on the 2.7t until 117k(+)?????? Hmmm.

reading > you

I was told that the mechanic changed timing belt, rollers, and new waterpump (and I assume thermostat as well); car had a slight overheat issue, so I asked him to do this work for me, and he said he did

now that it's all apart, there are atleast 2 rollers simply broken, and I have my doubts that the work was done, except for timing belt - because I see markings for how he was "setting" it

the only thing - we had to manually push it in to the garage, but obviously it was in neutral, and the key wasn't even in the "on" position; after the car shut off, it simply wouldn't start again, which is a good thing anyways

either way, thanks for the info; now, how to do a compression test proper? I'll still need a new belt kit to even try this

[jibberjive]

Roman, I've got a great condition low mileage engine for sale. Click the link in my sig and shoot me an email if you're interested jibberjive at aol.com

[RomanA6]

well, someone locally happens to have a set of 2.8L heads, how interesting is that? I know back in a day some guys opted out for those on a 2.7T

how much do you want for your engine? I saw one on ebay for $1200

the transmission was somewhere around $1500 as well

[jibberjive]

well, someone locally happens to have a set of 2.8L heads, how interesting is that? I know back in a day some guys opted out for those on a 2.7T

how much do you want for your engine? I saw one on ebay for $1200

the transmission was somewhere around $1500 as well

The price for my engine is $3750, take a look at my ad in the link in my sig for more info. You won't find one on ebay with my miles and condition for $1200 (if you can find one at all with as low of miles.) Fact of the matter, that $1200 one on ebay has a slipped belt and bent valves as well. Also I wouldn't suggest a 2.8l head swap unless you're doing a BIG turbo upgrade. Not worth it.

[haus4]

For the 2.8 heads, I dont know if they would be good for a stock application. I dont know if your could tune it enough to run smooth with stock ko3s. I would be pessimistic just because you would need more air flow and they normally use 2.8 heads with gt kits.

As for a compression test. You will need to get a new belt on there and get the engine to be turnable by a ratchet. You can buy a testing kit at sears or I would think you could find a local guy and borrow his.

[Das General]

2.8 heads/cams are pointless if you aren't running larger turbos.

[RomanA6]

I don't know, but with about 120k miles turbo's are on the way out anyways; so how big of a turbo are we talking? k04 or even bigger? food for thought; I have no idea how much he is going to want for the heads yet; I don't know of pistons are good yet; I'm not sure if I want to go to stage 3+ or not, but it would make perfect sense

I don't think I'm limited with time or anything, so

[Das General]

at least rs6's

[AudiA4_20T]

Roman, pull your heads off, get new valves put in, put them back on, and time it up

That is the cheapest way

[gmann]

From what you have said so far I would not even turn the motor over with the starter. You will most likely do more harm then good. If you think the timing belt is bad or there is no belt on it, then you should get a new belt and set the cam timing with everything back at top dead center. Turn the everything over buy hand and very slowly. If it doesn't turn then start taking the engine apart. If it all gets back to top dead center and you get the new belt on with it timed, then start doing a leak down test. This will tell you if you have bent valves or problems with the bottom end. If you get no less then 10 to 15% leak down then you could try to start the engine but I doubt you will even get to that point. Best of luck with the car.

This is the best and only way to go, in my experienced opinion.

And Roman. You're saying that you had payed a mechanic to change your t-stat, water pump, timing belt, and tensioner and he didn't? fat chance... Sounds like you misunderstood him on something.

PS, if you DID pay for all of that and it failed already why are you not going after the shop that did this as opposed to asking us how to do it yourself?

[jibberjive]

I don't know, but with about 120k miles turbo's are on the way out anyways; so how big of a turbo are we talking? k04 or even bigger? food for thought; I have no idea how much he is going to want for the heads yet; I don't know of pistons are good yet; I'm not sure if I want to go to stage 3+ or not, but it would make perfect sense

I don't think I'm limited with time or anything, so

Also, you can't just plop the 2.8 heads on there anyways. You'd have to rebuild them with 2.7 exhaust valves and valve cover anyways to get them to run on your car.

Like Audi_20T said, cheapest would be take it off and replace the valves that are bent (assuming no other damage to piston cylinder etc.)

2nd cheapest would prob be to buy good used 2.7 heads complete.

3rd would be to buy a motor complete (and if you're worried about your turbos mine only have 56k on them;))

4th would be to upgrade to KO4's along with one of the previous options

5th would be #4 with fueling

6th would be bigger and cost alot more.

You're talking a range from possibly a couple hundred bucks with the first option to over 8k with an RS6 build with 2.8 heads. Not necessarily sixes ya know?

[DxC]

hey romana6, i have a complete ready to drop in motor available for 2k + your core. turbos and all. i am in boston, ma and can arrange to deliver it to you in NY. this motor was in good running shape when pulled out, though you should do a timing belt and few other service related things while the engine is out

[jibberjive]

Here's a lead for cheap heads http://norfolk.craigslist.org/pts/962983025.html

[s4boost]

if i was you i'd go ahead and pull the head on both cars... no since in putting on the new kit just to take it right back off

[Siena]

The inlet valves will be bent - no doubts there.

A long winded job to fit a belt, time her up, then test for compression.
Quickest way is to lift the cams, so all valves are shut, and test that way.

[RomanA6]

And Roman. You're saying that you had payed a mechanic to change your t-stat, water pump, timing belt, and tensioner and he didn't? fat chance... Sounds like you misunderstood him on something.

when I brought the car to have it looked, he had it for a few days, then said that the problem with overheating is because of waterpump/thermostat and that it's leaking from somewhere there (it's been a while and I can't remember everything exactly how it was told)

so after a short chat, we agreed since all this work is needed to be done, might as well do the timing belt/rollers now as well; when I picked the car up, I asked him and he said he changed everything up front


like I said, at this point, in no real rush; just waiting for weather to warm up so I can fix my car(s); putting a belt on the 944 is easy, don't have to pull anything apart; just pop the hood open and take a couple of covers off - so it's very easy

wish it was the same on A6

the 2.8L heads was just a thought too; I'm going to see if anyone has a spare head for my 944 since that job is easier anyways