RS4 sway bar question

[nuckinfutzracin]

would you guys recommend getting the RS4 sway bar even if I don't have coil overs or springs? Or is it something that I would need if I went lower? Just curious, thanks

[Johnnada]

Yes, and another 10000 yes for all the other members that won't see this thread.

[kastro]

^^^ lol.. it's the cheapest most effective mod imo, inproves handling at a rate of 100000%, You dont "need" it when u lower or not lower ur car.. BUT wow what a difference it makes .. plus holy shit how much this question gets asked.

[nuckinfutzracin]

wow, 100000%, that's impressive. does anyone have a bar graph or pie chart to prove this? jk, thanks for the quick feed back

[kuwaiti]

Yep. Totally agree. improves handling tremendously. For that kind of money, there is no other.

[Grishbok]

the rs4 rear sway bar is on the rs4 for a reason.

Buy, install it, LOVE IT.

[AudiWxGuy]

The guys at STaSIS Engineering DO NOT recommend doing that until you upgrade your suspension. This is an excerpt from a previous post asking the same thing.

the rs4 bar is way too much for a stock a4 suspension. different? yes. better? no. you don't have nearly enough tire to deal with the added rate of the rs4 bar. an arb is a spring, it adds spring rate when the car rolls. an rs4 bar on stock suspension is the same as adding rear springs that are 5x stiffer than stock and leaving your front springs the same. how do we all think that would work?

if you add too much rear spring [giant arb] proportionally, then you'll make the car very tail happy. the rear will not roll enough to get the tires to grip and the back end gets really light and scary. buy yourself springs and dampers, then a bar. it's $ better spent.

[barkerd427]

Well they are wrong. It helps a lot in hard cornering AutoX. This car needs something to fight the understeer and it works great.

[AudiWxGuy]

And you have what qualifications to immediately disprove a mechanical engineer that works for one of the BEST suspension tuning company's in the VAG Market?

[Kerschera4]

Originally Posted by Jim@STaSIS
the rs4 bar is way too much for a stock a4 suspension. different? yes. better? no. you don't have nearly enough tire to deal with the added rate of the rs4 bar. an arb is a spring, it adds spring rate when the car rolls. an rs4 bar on stock suspension is the same as adding rear springs that are 5x stiffer than stock and leaving your front springs the same. how do we all think that would work?

if you add too much rear spring [giant arb] proportionally, then you'll make the car very tail happy. the rear will not roll enough to get the tires to grip and the back end gets really light and scary. buy yourself springs and dampers, then a bar. it's $ better spent.

more tire? is a 235 tire going to be that much worse than a 255 or whatever is on an rs4?

OP, i have one on my b6 and while was innitially somewhat skeptical of my car getting loose in the tail i have been suprised with how balanced it feels and you still do have to work to break the back end out. I would totally recommend it.

and why wouldnt the STaSIS guy just recommend upgrading the front sb as well?

[barkerd427]

I just don't believe everything someone says just because of their title. I know from experience that the sway bar helps and doesn't hurt.

[AudiWxGuy]

K.

[Great White]

And you have what qualifications to immediately disprove a mechanical engineer that works for one of the BEST suspension tuning company's in the VAG Market?

There we go again. I understand Stasis position because they, duh!, want to sell their product, and I'll probably buy it from them, but my card works great with the sports suspension and the RS4 sway bar, I noticed a great improvement after I installed it and had no problems.

[NorcalPB]

I have the bar as well with sport suspension it's so awesome.

[Grishbok]

I had the rs4 sway bar installed on stock suspension and the effect was an increase in both entrance speed and cornering speed. This effect was amplified with the coilovers installed.

The truth of the matter is, during a high speed cornering situation, on stock suspension and an rs4 sway bar, the inside rear wheel will essentially be "lifted" by the stiffer bar as the chassis of the car leans to the outside. This will cause the tire to lose traction easier as less of the weight is being applied to it.

will this impair your cornering ability? no. It will improve it.
Will this compensate for lack of a stasis coilover set? no.
Is this better than stock? infinitely yes.
will this cause tire slip during high speed turns? no, unless you have put crisco on your tires or drove over a lunch tray.

bottom line, the mechanical engineer is correct if you are running your car on a rally circuit. On street roads this will NOT impair your ability, only IMPROVE it.

[AudiWxGuy]

Nowhere in that response did the guys from STaSIS advertise their product. They were simply answering the questions from a mathematical and physical standpoint as to why it shouldn't be done. That was all I was trying to show.

[Alky]

Nowhere in that response did the guys from STaSIS advertise their product. They were simply answering the questions from a mathematical and physical standpoint as to why it shouldn't be done. That was all I was trying to show.

They just happened to answer the question in such a way that makes it necessary to spend $600 or $1000 or so in additional mods before you can get a cheap sway bar. Oh gee, I wonder why.

You don't have to be a very experienced driver to see whether or not the rs4 rear sway reduces understeer or not.

[Great White]

^ They were subtle about it, but yes, that's what I was trying to say.
And honestly that's their job, they make a good product and have to sell it, I'm glad we have the vendors giving us advice.

[AudiWxGuy]

This is an argument i'm clearly not going to win. Personally, I don't think they are that desperate for business.

[Grishbok]

the only thing you guys are questioning is the motivation of that companies post. But its not about that, its about the fact that what they said were right.

Doesnt matter if its said from the wrong side of a horse, if its true, its true.

[Brent27]

I have it on a stock suspension and it made a huge (positive) difference, i believe it helped and soon Im going to update my suspension to enhance its ability furthermore...

Not everything from a titled person is true, not saying they are wrong but on the street I feel a difference and in a good way. A track or rally course may differ...

Doctor told me I would never skate again b/c of a ankle injury and I skate 5 times a week now...

agree to disagree...

[AudiWxGuy]

They did not say it would not work. They stated that bc the rear sway bar acts like a much stiffer spring/shock then the front it may have adverse affects. It also may put more stress on the front suspension componets.

[JamezHill]

Would upgrading from an S-Line sway bar (18) to S4 (20) make any noticeable difference? Is it worth it?

[AudiWxGuy]

It would. But 99% of the people who do this upgrade use the RS4.

[Alky]

This is an argument i'm clearly not going to win. Personally, I don't think they are that desperate for business.

It's marketing, not desperation.

[NorcalPB]

They did not say it would not work. They stated that bc the rear sway bar acts like a much stiffer spring/shock then the front it may have adverse affects. It also may put more stress on the front suspension componets.

I believe it was the rear they were talking about, as it does put more stress on the end links.

[Kerschera4]

They did not say it would not work. They stated that bc the rear sway bar acts like a much stiffer spring/shock then the front it may have adverse affects. It also may put more stress on the front suspension componets.

looking at the physics and stress points of cornering and then having a larger rear sway bar, eliminating more body roll, transfering weight in the rear from side to side, or even oversteering in corners i am wondering where this puts more stress on front components??

the rears maybe i could understand but look weight transfer and physics and enlighten me please </not quite scarcastic because i actually want to hear if there is a reasonable answer to this>

[Great White]

This is an argument i'm clearly not going to win. Personally, I don't think they are that desperate for business.

It's a healthy discussion, not an argument, we're all winning

[Glassnpowder98]

I was directly involved in the discussion with Stasis in the other thread. In their defense I really don't think they were trying to sell their product, only provide us with information that they found during their testing with their professional drivers and engineers. With that said, I think everyone on here knows that getting a set of coilovers from Stasis or any other manufacturer is going to increase your car's handling capabilities over just the stock suspension with an RS4 rear sway... So the product should sell itself.

After asking many questions in the previous thread, it was determined that the RS4 rear sway will make the car unstable when lifting off the gas during high-speed cornering near the limit of your tires adhesion. Basically what happens is that when you are accelerating through a turn, your outside rear tire is being asked to provide the most traction. When you lift off the gas, the forces shift from the rear tire to being more neutral (front and rear). With these forces shifting, there is less friction available to the rear wheel. What the guys from Stasis were trying to say is that at this point, the stiffness of the rear sway bar is too much for the amount of friction your rear tires have available to them compared to your front tires. This will cause your rear end to get happy (oversteer is caused when your front tires have more grip than your rear tires).

Now, keep in mind the people who were testing for Stasis are professional drivers driving the car at the absolute limits. From what I've found, being a spirited driver with only one day at the track under my belt, the RS4 rear bar greatly reduced the amount of turn in understeer that I was experiencing with the stock sport suspension and sway bar. I never experienced the lift off oversteer that Stasis had mentioned (however I'm not a professional driver and only had this setup for about a month).

In conclusion I would still recommend the RS4 rear sway as the second best bang for the buck mod for a more sporty and fun ride. However, I really recommend that everyone save up for coilovers if you really want to see the handling potential of a quattro a4...

[Great White]

^ Good point, I agree.

Know your high speed corners (exit ramps are my favorite) and don't lift your foot off the gas, unless there is a deer in front of you :-)

Of course, there are no twisties where I live, so exit ramps are my adrenaline fix. I was on teh cycling team in Berkeley, CA... i would love to take my car to the roads I used to ride :-)

[p1nk50ck]

I just don't believe everything someone says just because of their title. I know from experience that the sway bar helps and doesn't hurt.

what tests have you performed to show this? ooh, your "experience". sorry, i didn't know that you were such a credible source. i will no longer ask professionals about their research, i'll just ask you to tell me all about your experiences.


perhaps if someone gets into an accident after listening to your enlightened experiences of audi suspension components, you'll just blame them on being a bad driver?

[B7A4Sport]

I have both met and worked with Jim@Stasis in person, and let me be the first to tell those who doubt his opinion or motives like barkerd427 that you are dead wrong.

The last thing I'd expect from him is to comment on critical aspects of modding strictly to make a sale. barkerd427, your experience is valid, but it does not discount what a highly knowledgable and skill technician would say to benefit the community as a whole, and not his business. Stasis doesn't need that type of attention; they get plenty through their reputation alone.

I will say to the OP that it seems enough people on here go for RS4 sways and have positive experiences. However, the average daily driver on Audizine's habits don't exactly compare with the rigors of testing that Stasis goes thru to test their products/mods. Jim was merely giving his perspective on the matter (in another thread, I might add), and barkerd, you really have no reason nor the credibility to attack it. If I had the extra money, I would definitely go with the rsb they recommend; for me, I don't drive in a manner that justifies spending $350-$400 on such a part. The RS4 sway seems to do the job, and I'm less worried about going with it since I have the Stasis Touring suspension (which, btw OP, is a great option for a suspension mod that's more affordable than CO's, PM me if you want more info).

It's not about "believing everything someone says just because of their title," it's about seeking and listening to guidance from the most skilled and experienced people in the trade; of whom, apparently, you are not among barkerd427.

[Grishbok]

i think we should all head over to the pub for a good solid guiness and debate this like a classy group of 14th century drunken irishmen.

[p1nk50ck]

i think we should all head over to the pub for a good solid guiness and debate this like a classy group of 14th century drunken irishmen.

[barkerd427]

p1nk50ck you seem really smart. I am talking about the hundreds of trips I took through the Austrian Alps (the same roads that Audi uses to demo their cars). And multiple trips to nurburgring. I have also autocrossed and circuitcrossed. I certainly didn't take the car to it's limits at any of those places like the pros would have, but I have definitely come close. I think Glassnpowder98 is probably right about what they meant, but I have not experienced anything like that. I also have never lifted off the gas in a high-speed turn. I have gotten to the point where my tires start to slip, but I slightly lift my foot and the quattro locks them right back in. This advice is only based on my experience and only applicable to a quattro with sport suspension. I don't know how it would effect the non-sline or a FWD. Oh and if you have nothing to add but hating on me then just don't post. I didn't post for awhile because I had said what I needed to and AudiWxGuy had responded and I didn't see that I would add to the discussion any further. I think AudiWxGuy and I kept it pretty civil and I don't think we have a problem not agreeing about it. Hopefully we wont have any problems and you can come to the AutoX in richmond or the Circuitcross at VIR. The first is on the 18th of this month and the second is on the 22nd of February. I certainly won't say that I will beat you, but I enjoy going up against people with similar cars.

[festerfm]

i am not an expert nor do i race on any kind of track... but i have a b6 w/ oem sport suspension and i upgraded to the b7 rs4 rear sway and just driving around northeast pa country roads w/ 225/40-18's all around i can say that it DOES stay flatter (real word??) around corners at a speed that isnt dangerous but higher than posted. i would THINK that if that is the kind of driving that you are going to be doing then there's no better bang for the buck than the rs4 sway... i THINK that if you are planning to be doing autoXing and want to get the best lap times and absolute best setup money can buy then the stasis guy is the guy to talk to.. this is just my opinion FWIW.. and the fact that you can get the rs4 rear sway from a dealer for just over $100 is awesome not to mention that a few aftermarket dealers have this same oem bar for less than that..

OP.. good luck w/ u'r decision.. the bar can be used if you are lowered or stock.. and i would recommend that this be the bar you get when you do finally get a rsb.. it's oem and gaurenteed to work and c'mon, all the az'ers cant be wrong..

[p1nk50ck]

p1nk50ck you seem really smart. I am talking about the hundreds of trips I took through the Austrian Alps (the same roads that Audi uses to demo their cars). And multiple trips to nurburgring. I have also autocrossed and circuitcrossed.

you may be experienced enough to know that lifting during the turn would cause a change in driving physics, but other amateur drivers may not know that. they may be driving everyday with bad habits, and changing suspension components, may be very dangerous. i still don't know how you can prove that it does not affect other suspension parts of your car, so i would assume that your claim is strictly a biased opinion based on the fact that your parts haven't failed.

I'm sure that there are plenty of people that have driven mustangs with summer tires in the snow and ice without getting in an accident. but i don't think that they should go online and recommend to other mustang drivers that they've done it all the time, and there's nothing wrong with doing it.

[barkerd427]

I have both met and worked with Jim@Stasis in person, and let me be the first to tell those who doubt his opinion or motives like barkerd427 that you are dead wrong.

The last thing I'd expect from him is to comment on critical aspects of modding strictly to make a sale. barkerd427, your experience is valid, but it does not discount what a highly knowledgable and skill technician would say to benefit the community as a whole, and not his business. Stasis doesn't need that type of attention; they get plenty through their reputation alone.

I will say to the OP that it seems enough people on here go for RS4 sways and have positive experiences. However, the average daily driver on Audizine's habits don't exactly compare with the rigors of testing that Stasis goes thru to test their products/mods. Jim was merely giving his perspective on the matter (in another thread, I might add), and barkerd, you really have no reason nor the credibility to attack it. If I had the extra money, I would definitely go with the rsb they recommend; for me, I don't drive in a manner that justifies spending $350-$400 on such a part. The RS4 sway seems to do the job, and I'm less worried about going with it since I have the Stasis Touring suspension (which, btw OP, is a great option for a suspension mod that's more affordable than CO's, PM me if you want more info).

It's not about "believing everything someone says just because of their title," it's about seeking and listening to guidance from the most skilled and experienced people in the trade; of whom, apparently, you are not among barkerd427.

I was saying that he is wrong based on my experience. If you are a pro and gonna be taking it to the limit then maybe things change, but for almost everyone here this is not true. Those who do go to that point would be stupid not to get an upgraded suspension besides the RS4 sway bar. Also, I know how working at a place and with certain people or in a certain area can sway your professional opinions. He is more focused on max performance and probably doesn't think about how the car would perform at regular driving. The car will act differently in both situations. I did not mean to infer that he was totally wrong or that I knew more than him. I could go in deeper with the psychological effects on the subconscious self when exposed to consistent, overbearing propaganda that can occur when you are dedicated to a company and a product, but I will spare you all from my psychobabble.

[barkerd427]

p1nk50ck that is a totally acceptable answer and I really should have qualified it when I made my original statement. OP I hope you understand all of this and sorry we were arguing in your thread. I will try to remember to qualify my responses from now on when they should be. I guess I don't really think about some of these guys as being inexperienced drivers and some have only been driving for a year or two. I would really hate for these guys to do something to their cars based on my advice and then get into an accident because I didn't think about my audience when I posted. Who ever would have thought you could have so much impact on a forum?

[p1nk50ck]

p1nk50ck that is a totally acceptable answer and I really should have qualified it when I made my original statement. OP I hope you understand all of this and sorry we were arguing in your thread. I will try to remember to qualify my responses from now on when they should be. I guess I don't really think about some of these guys as being inexperienced drivers and some have only been driving for a year or two. I would really hate for these guys to do something to their cars based on my advice and then get into an accident because I didn't think about my audience when I posted. Who ever would have thought you could have so much impact on a forum?

agree to agree!

is this the first time an argument has ended so quickly on this forum?