Audi quattro v. BMW x-drive

[Toecutter]

For our next car we're considering either a B8 A4 or a 335i x-drive.

Has anyone had the opportunity to drive on very slick snow and ice conditions with both of these systems? Please compare and contrast their winter driving abilities.

Disregard acceleration, cornering, and the other usual dry-conditions performance markers if possible. I'm looking strictly at snow and ice performance.

[A4A4A4]

For our next car we're considering either a B8 A4 or a 335i x-drive.

Has anyone had the opportunity to drive on very slick snow and ice conditions with both of these systems? Please compare and contrast their winter driving abilities.

Disregard acceleration, cornering, and the other usual dry-conditions performance markers if possible. I'm looking strictly at snow and ice performance.

Honestly, no contest. There's a lot of thing's the BMW has over the Audi, but this isn't even close to being one of them.

[Stone825]

If you were looking for performance I'd recommend the 335 easily as you can chip it and gain a lot of power.

However, there have been tons of videos done and comparisons and from experience Quattro >>> X-Drive

[kastro]

^^

[blmlozz]

For our next car we're considering either a B8 A4 or a 335i x-drive.

Has anyone had the opportunity to drive on very slick snow and ice conditions with both of these systems? Please compare and contrast their winter driving abilities.

Disregard acceleration, cornering, and the other usual dry-conditions performance markers if possible. I'm looking strictly at snow and ice performance.

the 335 X drive is a haldex system like 4-motion and 4-matic. quattro is, quattro.. the difference is all-time vs part time. Quattro disributes power mechanically to all 4 wheels, all the time. Haldex works by normaly being 2WD, but then distributes some power to other wheels when they start to slip and 'grab' the clutches in the haldex, thus engaging 4WD. Two very different systems.

[TapouTx914]

335 is a great car and will outperform the a4 easily. A chipped 335 gets almost 100 more hp out of it not to mention once turbo upgrades are released forget it. Quattro is the better AWD system though but all the good stuff about the 335 will easily make up to it when compared to the a4. Don't get me wrong the a4 is awesome too but its in an entirely different league.

[blmlozz]

335 is a great car and will outperform the a4 easily. A chipped 335 gets almost 100 more hp out of it not to mention once turbo upgrades are released forget it. Quattro is the better AWD system though but all the good stuff about the 335 will easily make up to it when compared to the a4. Don't get me wrong the a4 is awesome too but its in an entirely different league.

the turbochargers in the I6 335 are sequential and differently sized, turbo-upgrades if offered I'm sure will be very expensive.

[Toecutter]

335 is a great car and will outperform the a4 easily. A chipped 335 gets almost 100 more hp out of it not to mention once turbo upgrades are released forget it. Quattro is the better AWD system though but all the good stuff about the 335 will easily make up to it when compared to the a4. Don't get me wrong the a4 is awesome too but its in an entirely different league.

I understand that the 335i is more of a high-performance car. I'm looking strictly at snow and ice capability since we get a lot of that here (with hills too). The greater horsepower, torque, and cornering of the BMW is kind of meaningless at 10mph on an icy curve trying not to slide off into the bushes. It'd be great the other three seasons though.

[Toecutter]

If you were looking for performance I'd recommend the 335 easily as you can chip it and gain a lot of power.

However, there have been tons of videos done and comparisons and from experience Quattro >>> X-Drive

Do you have any favorite videos or comparos to link me to? I'll search YouTube in the meantime.

[FLACO X3]

when i bought my car i had this problem. i was looking at a 2001 BMW 330xi, 2000 A4 2.8, 2000 S4 and 2001 A4 1.8T. After asking around, everyone said if i wanted a German luxury AWD car it was Audi hands down. So that eliminated the BMW.

[torment]

the turbochargers in the I6 335 are sequential and differently sized, turbo-upgrades if offered I'm sure will be very expensive.

They are parallel in the 335i and sequential in the 335d.

[B6JoeS4]

the 335 is fast as hell. about as fast if not faster than a B6/7 S4 when you chip it

[Clown4]

b8 a4
LED looks awesome in snow plus the quattro is really some awesome mechnical engineering~

if you're that kneen about the snow... get a Q7, Q5, or allroad...
seriously...when snow prowler's not around...
a sedan goes no where... chassis's too low...

but yet, B8 > 335 in snowy condition

[Zebman]

Not to mention the 40/60 torque split in the B8s, makes spirited driving much more fun. A part-time system just cannot compare.

[AudiProtein]

the 335 is fast as hell. about as fast if not faster than a B6/7 S4 when you chip it

chipped 335i rapes b6/b7 s4's

[Toecutter]

b8 a4
LED looks awesome in snow plus the quattro is really some awesome mechnical engineering~

if you're that kneen about the snow... get a Q7, Q5, or allroad...
seriously...when snow prowler's not around...
a sedan goes no where... chassis's too low...

but yet, B8 > 335 in snowy condition

It sounds like the quattro is the better snow setup. I'm not into suvs or crossovers at all; if the snow gets that deep I'll bust out my xc skis or walk. Usually we just get a sheet of ice rather than deep snow here (except for the past two days).

[EthanDM]

i have a b8 a4 and its like a tank in the snow

[Tiesto]

Or you could wait for the B8 S4. 40:60 Quattro coupled with a supercharged V6 which should walk all over the 335's TT-I6. And if you got the money definitely get the S-Tronic option, dual clutch and 7 gears.

[Toecutter]

Or you could wait for the B8 S4. 40:60 Quattro coupled with a supercharged V6 which should walk all over the BMW TT-I6.

I thought about that! I'm guessing MSRP around $60K fully-loaded, available by next winter. I like the idea of 30mpg with the 2.0T though.

[CX-7&A4]

Disregard acceleration, cornering, and the other usual dry-conditions performance markers if possible. I'm looking strictly at snow and ice performance.

Quattro, although X-Drive is more sophisticated meaning it's more computerized, the Quattro system is among the best in the wet stuff.

[Toecutter]

Quattro, although X-Drive is more sophisticated meaning it's more computerized, the Quattro system is among the best in the wet stuff.

Is it more computerized? I didn't know that. Can you expound a little bit?

Edit: maybe blmlozz talked about it above.

the 335 X drive is a haldex system like 4-motion and 4-matic. quattro is, quattro.. the difference is all-time vs part time. Quattro disributes power mechanically to all 4 wheels, all the time. Haldex works by normaly being 2WD, but then distributes some power to other wheels when they start to slip and 'grab' the clutches in the haldex, thus engaging 4WD. Two very different systems.

[onemoremile]

Quattro needs a real mechanical limited slip diff in the rear. If the BMW system is rear based and adds the front when needed then I would go that way.

My wife's 97 Outback has a LSD center and rear and is better in the snow than my Audi with LSD center and open rear. EDL allows Quattro to use open diffs front and rear to keep things smooth but it is not the high performance way. If it were then Stasis wouldn't sell $1,500 mechanical rear diffs for Audis.

Haldex is also a system that can be tuned with software. The R32 Haldex system can be "chipped" to alter it's performance characteristics.

[erode]

Honestly, no contest. There's a lot of thing's the BMW has over the Audi, but this isn't even close to being one of them.

Do you have any proof of the technical merit of the quattro system over xDrive?

[CX-7&A4]

Is it more computerized? I didn't know that. Can you expound a little bit?

Edit: maybe blmlozz talked about it above.

It uses stability control stuff like, Yaw rate, steering wheel angle, wheel spin etc. to determine which wheels to send the power to, and it can send power to any wheel it chooses, hence xDrive.

[Toecutter]

It uses stability control stuff like, Yaw rate, steering wheel angle, wheel spin etc. to determine which wheels to send the power to, and it can send power to any wheel it chooses, hence xDrive.

Interesting. With all of those calculations one would think that xDrive would be more capable than quattro in slippery conditions, yet people (at least on the Audi boards) generally agree that quattro is better.

FYI, in response to the same query the folks on the BMW boards say there's not much difference but none of them have stated that xDrive is better.

[Toecutter]

Quattro needs a real mechanical limited slip diff in the rear. If the BMW system is rear based and adds the front when needed then I would go that way.

My wife's 97 Outback has a LSD center and rear and is better in the snow than my Audi with LSD center and open rear. EDL allows Quattro to use open diffs front and rear to keep things smooth but it is not the high performance way. If it were then Stasis wouldn't sell $1,500 mechanical rear diffs for Audis.

Haldex is also a system that can be tuned with software. The R32 Haldex system can be "chipped" to alter it's performance characteristics.

The upcoming S4 supposedly has that rear sport differential option. That gives me one more reason to wait for its release, hey?
http://www.audiworld.com/news/08/b8-s4-first-drive/

Folks on the Subaru boards generally believe that the Subaru AWD system is better than quattro, but in seat-of-the-pants back-to-back icy road testing I've found opposite (I have an 07 WRX and a B6 A4). My Audi has been far more surefooted in bad conditions. I haven't controlled for tire brand and size, but I have winter performance tires on both cars.

[Silververtu]

xi isn't even in the same league as quattro.

[Alipor]

the 335 X drive is a haldex system like 4-motion and 4-matic. quattro is, quattro.. the difference is all-time vs part time. Quattro disributes power mechanically to all 4 wheels, all the time. Haldex works by normaly being 2WD, but then distributes some power to other wheels when they start to slip and 'grab' the clutches in the haldex, thus engaging 4WD. Two very different systems.

Just one thing not all 4-motions are haldex the passat is a torsen system like the A4-A8 the A3 uses a haldex as does the TT's. Having had both XI's and Quattro's and 4-matic's I much perfer the quattro over the other three, from an on snow performance they all will work and work very well with snow tires. However from a feel stand point the quattro feels much more predictable and solid under poor conditions. With the MB and BMW systems you can actually feel the different wheels gaining and losing traction in poor traction conditions. My dad has the XI and in poor weather he would perfer to take my old A4 vs his new X3.

[CX-7&A4]

Interesting. With all of those calculations one would think that xDrive would be more capable than quattro in slippery conditions, yet people (at least on the Audi boards) generally agree that quattro is better.

FYI, in response to the same query the folks on the BMW boards say there's not much difference but none of them have stated that xDrive is better.

xDrive is best for dry road handling, in wet conditions you want a system like Quattro.

[KareemA4]

Quattro!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GxSdXOR4R0

[Cargo8]

quattro is TORque SENsitive (TORSEN Diff) which sense the torque being put down by the wheels instead of detecting slip, as the xdrive system does. Therefore the quattro system will be able to keep grip better rather than correcting for slip after the fact (xdrive).

Also, while looking at videos, be sure to note that the video where the audi is stuck on rollers is fiddled with i think (audis are all time awd, so it doesnt make sense).

[erode]

Like I said.. most of you just seem to blindly agree that quattro is best, and can name the hardware components you see on the list from the Wikipedia page, but you literally have no idea what is going on from an engineering standpoint and your opinion is of no value to this discussion.

Professional opinions I can respect..and some of them disagree after testing.
http://translate.google.com/translat...ml&sl=de&tl=en

[A4A4A4]

Do you have any proof of the technical merit of the quattro system over xDrive?

Nope, but i've driven both in the snow and ice and could easily tell that the quattro was outperforming the xdrive. For example, my friend drives a 328xi and struggled to make it up a hill that I climbed with ease in my A4.

[cambridge99]

I've driven both cars and would give the slight edge to the A4. However, the biggest impact will come from having good snow tires on your car as a 335 with snow tires and w/o xdrive will perform far better than an A4 w/o snow tires.

[A4A4A4]

Like I said.. most of you just seem to blindly agree that quattro is best, and can name the hardware components you see on the list from the Wikipedia page, but you literally have no idea what is going on from an engineering standpoint and your opinion is of no value to this discussion.

Just go test drive an xDrive BMW and a Quattro Audi, then come back here and tell us you what you think. I can almost guarantee you won't have the same opinion you have now.

[erode]

Just go test drive an xDrive BMW and a Quattro Audi, then come back here and tell us you what you think. I can almost guarantee you won't have the same opinion you have now.

I like quattro as much as the next guy here, but you can't just blindly say "oh, well I test drove xDrive [did you drive a new model or the old 60/40 version?] and quattro is superior." Well, you can say that but it doesn't really amount to much.

Without a controlled environment, your opinion is invalidated. I'm simply challenging everybody to look at it objectively instead of merely defending your favorite car's heritage and reputation. Maybe it's not better. Is that so bad? No.. they're both awesome.

[A4A4A4]

I like quattro as much as the next guy here, but you can't just blindly say "oh, well I test drove xDrive [did you drive a new model or the old 60/40 version?] and quattro is superior." Well, you can say that but it doesn't really amount to much.

Without a controlled environment, your opinion is invalidated. I'm simply challenging everybody to look at it objectively instead of merely defending your favorite car's heritage and reputation. Maybe it's not better. Is that so bad? No.. they're both awesome.

I have a 2008 Audi A4 quattro, my friend has a 2007 BMW 323xi. Both of us have performance winter tires (albeit, they were of different brands) with similar tire wear. We drove in the exact same conditions, on the same roads, on the same day, and both came to the conclusion that the quattro outperformed the xdrive. The breaking distance in both were very similar but that seemed to be where the similarities stopped. The Audi could take turns quite a bit faster without slipping and seemed to be more controlled around those corners. The biggest differences were the ability to get through heavy snow and to climb icy slopes. While we were going through very heavy snow the BMW got stuck a total of three times and the quattro managed to pull its way out of any trouble it encountered and didn't get stuck once. On the hill, the quattro got up and down with ease, while the xdrive struggled (losing traction quite often and slipping back a few feet at a time) although it did eventually make it up.

I'd say me and my friends test was as close to being controlled as it could have been and was definitely decisive that the quattro is a better system in winter conditions than the xdrive (or at least in these particular cars).

I'm sorry I don't have any technical data to back up these claims for you, but strictly from my personal experience, the quattro is the better performer in winter conditions. I can confidently say that my choice of getting a Audi has been justified by what I found to be true of its winter ability as proven by my little experiment.

[Toecutter]

xDrive is best for dry road handling, in wet conditions you want a system like Quattro.

I went down to the local dealership this morning and drove both a new A4 and a 335xi back-to-back on ice and slush and was able to sense a difference between the two systems. The xDrive seemed to hunt a little bit for front-end traction whereas the quattro was hard to break loose at all.

[Toecutter]

I've driven both cars and would give the slight edge to the A4. However, the biggest impact will come from having good snow tires on your car as a 335 with snow tires and w/o xdrive will perform far better than an A4 w/o snow tires.

I would have snows on any car I bought. It'd be asking for trouble without them around here.

[Stone825]

Do you have any favorite videos or comparos to link me to? I'll search YouTube in the meantime.

Youtube has a video. I'll find it for you.