rs4 rear sway

[italia8287]

is it worth it and where can i pick one up from?

[bblume]

try search AND look up Performance CAFE!

[rnp614]

thats where I just ordered mine. I hope its a difference I can notice!

[Jim@STaSIS]

you're not putting that on a car w/ stock suspension, are you?

[AudiWxGuy]

It makes a huge difference with the street sports. BTW, Jason, I'll be doing an Autocross in Jan. I'll get some pics to represent that STaSIS suspension.

[Geoffafa]

HUGE difference from the rs4 sway bar

[AudiWxGuy]

By huge, he means MASSIVE!

[NorcalPB]

Ok so I have the bar on sport suspension how likely am I to blow the endlinks after a lot of hard driving?

[Jim@STaSIS]

actually this is jim from stasis but who's counting. =)

the rs4 bar is way too much for a stock a4 suspension. different? yes. better? no. you don't have nearly enough tire to deal with the added rate of the rs4 bar. an arb is a spring, it adds spring rate when the car rolls. an rs4 bar on stock suspension is the same as adding rear springs that are 5x stiffer than stock and leaving your front springs the same. how do we all think that would work?

if you add too much rear spring [giant arb] proportionally, then you'll make the car very tail happy. the rear will not roll enough to get the tires to grip and the back end gets really light and scary. buy yourself springs and dampers, then a bar. it's $ better spent.

[AudiWxGuy]

I don't know why I wrote Jason...I read Jim. Sorry dude.

[TwentyValveB5]

an rs4 bar on stock suspension is the same as adding rear springs that are 5x stiffer than stock and leaving your front springs the same. how do we all think that would work?

Then what's your opinion on a matched set like the H-Sports? Obviously a set of Ohlins or even Street Sports would be better, but I'm asking for the budget-conscious ;-)

[NorcalPB]

actually this is jim from stasis but who's counting. =)

the rs4 bar is way too much for a stock a4 suspension. different? yes. better? no. you don't have nearly enough tire to deal with the added rate of the rs4 bar. an arb is a spring, it adds spring rate when the car rolls. an rs4 bar on stock suspension is the same as adding rear springs that are 5x stiffer than stock and leaving your front springs the same. how do we all think that would work?

if you add too much rear spring [giant arb] proportionally, then you'll make the car very tail happy. the rear will not roll enough to get the tires to grip and the back end gets really light and scary. buy yourself springs and dampers, then a bar. it's $ better spent.

I agree but isn't the front sway bar on our cars 29mm, the exact same diameter as the front sway bar on the RS4? Considering that our engines are mounted in front of our front axles and our front sway bars are so thick, I would have to say that the rear RS4 sway bar is a little bit more than just "different".

[Jim@STaSIS]

no worries on the jim/jason thing! he's been here for like 10k years. I'm lucky to be confused for the most knowledgeable audi dude out there.

Then what's your opinion on a matched set like the H-Sports? Obviously a set of Ohlins or even Street Sports would be better, but I'm asking for the budget-conscious ;-)

we've got a fixed height touring kit [spring + damper] that kills it for the $. call me.

I agree but isn't the front sway bar on our cars 29mm, the exact same diameter as the front sway bar on the RS4? Considering that our engines are mounted in front of our front axles and our front sway bars are so thick, I would have to say that the rear RS4 sway bar is a little bit more than just "different".

i'm not sure i get your point. the key here is the proportion of front to rear spring rate. in a front-heavy awd audi the rear bar is proportionally smaller than the front to tune understeer into the car for safety. everything else beign equal, if you change the proportion and make the rear bar larger then you reduce the understeer tendency. BUT if you go to far [a la rs4] then you get sloppy bags of oversteer which is also bad [and way less safe].

we shoot for neutral with slight understeer bias in our suspensions. if you add a little more bar, things get better. but the 'if some is good TONS must be better' method doesn't apply here.

better to first address the root issue - the stock suspension is to soft.

[Jim@STaSIS]

sorry i didn't read this right. the hsports are great, they are both larger than stock but keep the ratio right. you'll get a better result for the $ by changing the springs + dampers than adding a f+r bars to a stock suspension. we really like the b7 with our rear bar [22mm], stock front bar with springs / dampers. it's magic.

Then what's your opinion on a matched set like the H-Sports? Obviously a set of Ohlins or even Street Sports would be better, but I'm asking for the budget-conscious ;-)

[NorcalPB]

no worries on the jim/jason thing! he's been here for like 10k years. I'm lucky to be confused for the most knowledgeable audi dude out there.



we've got a fixed height touring kit [spring + damper] that kills it for the $. call me.



i'm not sure i get your point. the key here is the proportion of front to rear spring rate. in a front-heavy awd audi the rear bar is proportionally smaller than the front to tune understeer into the car for safety. everything else beign equal, if you change the proportion and make the rear bar larger then you reduce the understeer tendency. BUT if you go to far [a la rs4] then you get sloppy bags of oversteer which is also bad [and way less safe].

we shoot for neutral with slight understeer bias in our suspensions. if you add a little more bar, things get better. but the 'if some is good TONS must be better' method doesn't apply here.

better to first address the root issue - the stock suspension is to soft.

Well I personally think that oversteer is safer.
I just don't like the idea of understeering off a cliff on a canyon run =)
And is the sline suspension too soft as well?
Honestly I have no complaints on how the car handles right now, I'm just worried that it can harm the car.

[Jim@STaSIS]

a little oversteer can certainly more fun, but also not safer. better to push a little than swap ends.

the stock suspension is great for what it's designed to do. go fast around corners was not top of the priority list. if it is, then yes. spring rates need to go up and dampers need to suit them. remember - the giant rear bar you bolted on is just a rear spring.

that said, i don't think it will hurt the car - the endlink is the weak link and you will likely see higher failure rates since the part is more highly stressed.

[NorcalPB]

Are there stronger rs4 end links?

[italia8287]

alright thanks guys so i guess its a no go on the rs4 sway until i get some more suspension work done.

[AudiWxGuy]

The sway+coils+taking turns at 80=fun!

[rnp614]

I feel like a LOT of people on these forums have sport suspension and rs4 sways with good results?! Am I wrong? I didnt think so many people had coils.

[italia8287]

I feel like a LOT of people on these forums have sport suspension and rs4 sways with good results?! Am I wrong? I didnt think so many people had coils.

i was under this impression too.

[NorcalPB]

I feel like a LOT of people on these forums have sport suspension and rs4 sways with good results?! Am I wrong? I didnt think so many people had coils.

They do, because they are not happy with the current ratio/setup of the stock sway bars. Honestly, I don't feel that even with the RS4 rear its that easy to have oversteer. The only time I was able to do it was in the rain, making a u-turn with tc off where I tried to get it to swing out, and I had to perfect the technique too, most of the time the car would grab perfectly, just like I wanted it to.

[rnp614]

Good to hear.

[08 B7]

would the rs4 sways work good with oem sport suspension?

[06B7audiA4]

would the rs4 sways work good with oem sport suspension?

LOL look at the above post...Its explained...unless your lowering your car from stock, Sway bars dont do much, prob create a lil less roll but unless ur stock shocks are stiff ull get body roll ur matter what...

Get Coils, then RSB...world of difference...FSB idk about

[Great White]

LOL look at the above post...Its explained...unless your lowering your car from stock, Sway bars dont do much, prob create a lil less roll but unless ur stock shocks are stiff ull get body roll ur matter what...

Get Coils, then RSB...world of difference...FSB idk about

I was under the impression that Jim was referring to the "oem a4 suspension" not the "oem a4 sport suspension" I believe they are two different settings.

What would you say Jim?

[AudiWxGuy]

all oem is not meant for sway

[MichiganAudiDvr]

I run stock (non-sport) suspension on my 2006 A4 with the RS4 rear sway bar, snub, APR 93. I feel that the bar really cleaned things up, especially on highway ramps.

Noticeably less understeer (which to me is harder to control/correct than an oversteer situation, even though some say it is unsafe). Despite my crazy thick RS4 bar, I have never been able to create an oversteer problem with this car. So, no worries. I would do it if you are looking for an inexpensive quick improvement.

[Glassnpowder98]

^^^ I agree. I had the RS4 rear sway with stock sport suspension for about a month before upgrading to coilovers. Before the rear sway, the car had loads of understeer. After having it installed the car still had some understeer and the only time I oversteered was on an off camber onramp in the rain. I agree that too much bar in the back will produce unwanted oversteer, but in my experiences the RS4 rear bar is no where near being too much bar. I think it brings the car closer to being neutral but still doesn't jump the line over to giving you oversteer with the sport suspension and stock Pirelli P6's.

And to further continue the debate... I always lived by the motto "oversteer scares the passengers while understeer scares the driver." I feel way safer getting sideways because you can modulate the gas and quattro will pull you out of almost anything. I've been on the skidpad at the track and pulled out of nearly 90 degree slides (video to prove it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5Dbb...e=channel_page Also, with coilovers and a rear sway I still had to use the ebrake to get the rear end out because it would just understeer) Understeering is pretty scary when your wheel is turned and you are plowing straight ahead hoping that your tires regain grip before you crash. I'd definitely rather get sideways because I think it's easier to feel when it's going to happen and then you can react accordingly.

[NorcalPB]

Ok so no one knows of any upgraded endlinks lol? Ecs has some non-oem ones for like $40 a pop. Anyone ever try these?

[AudiWxGuy]

do not buy anything from ecs.

[Kerby]

this is no good for stock sport suspension either?

[Glassnpowder98]

this is no good for stock sport suspension either?

As I said a few posts above, and most other people with an RS4 rear sway and stock sport suspension agree...

^^^ I agree. I had the RS4 rear sway with stock sport suspension for about a month before upgrading to coilovers. Before the rear sway, the car had loads of understeer. After having it installed the car still had some understeer and the only time I oversteered was on an off camber onramp in the rain. I agree that too much bar in the back will produce unwanted oversteer, but in my experiences the RS4 rear bar is no where near being too much bar. I think it brings the car closer to being neutral but still doesn't jump the line over to giving you oversteer with the sport suspension and stock Pirelli P6's.

When driving the car how you would around a track, (braking into the apex and then accelerating at and out of the apex) the car does not oversteer. There is actually still a little bit of understeer if you push it past it's limits, but a lot less understeer than with the stock swaybar. Some people will claim that they can get the rear end out very easily with an RS4 swaybar to induce oversteer. However, in my experiences I would have to do a Scandinavian flick or some other type of rally/drift based manuever to induce oversteer. I am still a big advocate that a rear sway bar is the second best "bang for your buck" mod next to a chip.

[Audi.Quattro3.2]

Would I benefit from the Rs4 sway? I am running Vogtland coilovers on my 3.2 Quattro.

thanks in adavance!

[B7A4Sport]

we've got a fixed height touring kit [spring + damper] that kills it for the $. call me.

He speaks the truth! This kit is a perfect choice for those who are looking for a tasteful drop and a huge increase in handling performance at a great price. I actually just had this kit installed about 2-3 weeks ago, and it has made a world of difference. Not only is the car much more stable thru the twisties, it is an overall improvement in ride quality/comfort as well.

I even worked with Jim directly, and he definitely knows his stuff. We discussed this very issue at length, and he was saying the same thing; the RS4 sway makes the car very tail-happy, and even with my upgraded dampers/springs I wouldn't want to run the RS4 sway.

[NorcalPB]

There's not a single person on the b6/b7 with the 22mm sway bar that thinks their car has oversteer without them trying to make it have oversteer.

B7a4sport have you ever driven an a4 with the sport suspension and an rs4 sway bar? I agree that it normally doesn't make sense to upgrade just the rear sway bar. We did just that on my friends 300zx tt before he installed the front, and that is tail happy. Driving it didn't feel right, it felt very unbalanced and the bar was only 21mm. This is not the case with our cars. Our cars are so unbalanced out of the factory it's retarded. The bar makes the car much more balanced.

[Great White]

^ yeah, I find this thread intriguing. All I've read about the RS4 sway on the forums are good things. I do plan to lower the car in teh next month or so, but I just my rear sway installed today. I have the OEM sport suspension... I'll you guys know how it goes :-)

[B7A4Sport]

I'd say the definitive reason is that the RS4 sway is by far the most affordable option, and I can't say I'm not going to get one myself.

I myself have not driven such an A4, Norcal, I was merely confirming that Jim was consistent with what he said in this thread, and what he and I spoke about in-person when I was at Stasis. Those were his recommendations to me, not me saying "I wouldn't want to run an RS4 sway."

Other brands of rear sways are in the $300 range, while the RS4 can be found for less than $100 in the classifieds at times. I bet the difference in feel is not sufficient to justify up to 3 times the cost, but it all depends on individual preference in the end.

[Jim@STaSIS]

What we found on the b7 [with a professional test driver and several very experienced suspension / chassis engineers that raced b5/b6/b7 chassis cars for a few years] was that on a stock car [i forget if it was an Sline or not] was that the rs4 bar was too stiff for the oe suspension [the 20mm s4 bar was a better match]. Now if you change the spring rates then you can tune them to allow a stiffer rarb, because even though you’ve made the car stiffer all around, you’ve still only increased the r:f ratio slightly over stock. Long story short if you have a stock car change your springs and dampers. There is massive headroom for improvement here. We design the spring rates to take advantage of a larger bar while maintaining a neutral chassis. We run Ohlins SLs on our b7a4 and a 22mm rear bar and it's brilliant. If you’re local come drive it, you’ll see what I mean.

A little theory: A sway bar is a spring. It allows a suspension designer to add dynamic spring rate when the car rolls, without having to deal with the added ride harshness of always having that stiffness in the spring. What you do by adding rear bar stiffness is decrease rear roll, which decreases rear grip as the suspension isn’t able to load the tire as much [some roll is good, this creates grip. We like grip.]. Thus you increase front tire grip, somewhat artificially, by sacrificing some rear grip. Changing the way the car utilizes f/r grip and biasing it more toward the front [understeer = front tires lose grip, rear tires have grip] will help [this is all very audi-specific, btw] make the car neutral but it’s easy to go too far.

So if you have stock suspension and an rs4 rear bar you need to do the right thing and call me and buy a STaSIS suspension! =)

[Great White]

What we found on the b7 [with a professional test driver and several very experienced suspension / chassis engineers that raced b5/b6/b7 chassis cars for a few years] was that on a stock car [i forget if it was an Sline or not] was that the rs4 bar was too stiff for the oe suspension [the 20mm s4 bar was a better match]. Now if you change the spring rates then you can tune them to allow a stiffer rarb, because even though you’ve made the car stiffer all around, you’ve still only increased the r:f ratio slightly over stock. Long story short if you have a stock car change your springs and dampers. There is massive headroom for improvement here. We design the spring rates to take advantage of a larger bar while maintaining a neutral chassis. We run Ohlins SLs on our b7a4 and a 22mm rear bar and it's brilliant. If you’re local come drive it, you’ll see what I mean.

If possible, I think it would be helpful to find out if it was a s-line or not...it's not like we're not gonna be lowering our cars on way or another

I'm definitely lower the car in the near future, for now I'm gonna drive my s-line with brand new RS4 sway bar this weekend and see if I can say something intelligent on monday.