Lemmiwinks & SPS3 vs adaptation channels & chip

[jackyaudi]

From lots of searching on AZ and google, I came up with the following info:

- Lemmiwinks actually modifies the adaptation channels that are present on the EPROM of the ECU directly, in other words, it does not even read or modifies whats on the performance chip.

- SPS3 actually modifies the lookup tables on the performance chip directly.

- That said, if someone wants to modify his timing (say to decrease it) then ideally he should be doing this with SPS3, since it will adjust the chip...

Which brings me to my question: Does the ECU read the timing settings from its EPROM or from the performance chip? Or both?

Someone can have for example the Timing set as 3 degrees using lemminwinks and a Timing of 5 degrees on the performance chip, how would the ECU deal with all that???

[diagnosticator]

From lots of searching on AZ and google, I came up with the following info:

- Lemmiwinks actually modifies the adaptation channels that are present on the EPROM of the ECU directly, in other words, it does not even read or modifies whats on the performance chip.

- SPS3 actually modifies the lookup tables on the performance chip directly.

- That said, if someone wants to modify his timing (say to decrease it) then ideally he should be doing this with SPS3, since it will adjust the chip...

Which brings me to my question: Does the ECU read the timing settings from its EPROM or from the performance chip? Or both?

Someone can have for example the Timing set as 3 degrees using lemminwinks and a Timing of 5 degrees on the performance chip, how would the ECU deal with all that???

The adaptation channel value is a global offset, so whatever value is at the operating point in the timing map, is offset by the value in the adaptation channel. The tuning flash overwrites the stock EPROM lookup tables.

[F16HTON]

In laymans terms, lemmiwinks adds a voltage offset which will shift the whole curve up of down, it is similar to using the dB gain knob on an amplifier, rather than an equalizer,

[dougyfresh]

Lemmiwinks also works for those that are not running REVO software seeing as those individuals can not make changes with an SPS3.




If you are running REVO software I recommend changing via SPS3 before even thinking about touching Lemmiwinks.

[jackyaudi]

The tuning flash overwrites the stock EPROM lookup tables.

Alright, but if thats the case then there is something that does not make sense to me. If I have a Revo chip with Timing set at 5 [for example], and I dont have an SPS3, but only lemmiwinks, then using lemminwinks to read the values from the ECU, I get the Timing set at 0 Deg. In other words, whats in the EPROM is Timing = 0 Deg.

So now I cannot change the Timing coz first 1) I dont know whats the chip is set to, and 2) I dont want to have an EPROM setting that is different than the chip setting.. <-- BUT maybe thats irrelevant if, hypothetically for example the chip gets loaded to RAM and the ECU would only read the values from there bypassing the EPROM. Am just guessing here.

I searched on google about how the ECU intereacts with the chip and how would the EPROM settings affect or not the chip readings, but not much info I could find on that.

[jackyaudi]

Lemmiwinks also works for those that are not running REVO software seeing as those individuals can not make changes with an SPS3.




If you are running REVO software I recommend changing via SPS3 before even thinking about touching Lemmiwinks.

Ya I wish Martin's SPS3 was here, coz I already got an SPS1 not long ago, and I dont feel like putting another $350+ on that. Did not know I will be playing with Timing at all at that time! I am looking around locally here, lets see if someone has one.

[dougyfresh]

Ya I wish Martin's SPS3 was here, coz I already got an SPS1 not long ago, and I dont feel like putting another $350+ on that. Did not know I will be playing with Timing at all at that time! I am looking around locally here, lets see if someone has one.

Does that mean I have to mail Martin his SPS3?

[diagnosticator]

Alright, but if thats the case then there is something that does not make sense to me. If I have a Revo chip with Timing set at 5 [for example], and I dont have an SPS3, but only lemmiwinks, then using lemmiwinks to read the values from the ECU, I get the Timing set at 0 Deg. In other words, whats in the EPROM is Timing = 0 Deg.

So now I cannot change the Timing coz first 1) I dont know whats the chip is set to, and 2) I dont want to have an EPROM setting that is different than the chip setting.. <-- BUT maybe thats irrelevant if, hypothetically for example the chip gets loaded to RAM and the ECU would only read the values from there bypassing the EPROM. Am just guessing here. BTW, EPROM <> Chip.

I searched on google about how the ECU intereacts with the chip and how would the EPROM settings affect or not the chip readings, but not much info I could find on that.

The SPS3 values are arbitrary, they are unit-less numbers. The SPS3 changes the timing lookup table values. The lemmiwinks reads and writes to the adaptation channel, so to begin with, the adaptation channel value is always zero, regardless of the lookup table being used, or the SPS3 tweak in effect. They are different parameters. The SPS3 and the actual Hex numbers in the lookup table are not decimal degree values. Only the adaptation channel is scaled in degrees crankshaft rotation, +/- decimal.

[JMRQuattro]

i'm sorry that this is not helpful, but does no one find the humor in this? Lemmiwinks is also the gerbil that gets put in Mr. Slave's ass lol.

[jackyaudi]

The SPS3 values are arbitrary, they are unit-less numbers. The SPS3 changes the timing lookup table values. The lemmiwinks reads and writes to the adaptation channel, so to begin with, the adaptation channel value is always zero, regardless of the lookup table being used, or the SPS3 tweak in effect. They are different parameters. The SPS3 and the actual Hex numbers in the lookup table are not decimal degree values. Only the adaptation channel is scaled in degrees crankshaft rotation, +/- decimal.

That explains things better, thanks.

So from what I understand:

1. ANY chipped car should ONLY have the lookup tables changed through their chip's manufacturer's tools/software. In other words, Lemmiwinks SHOULD NOT be used on a chipped ECU.

2. ONLY stock ECUs should be using the adaptation channels to make MINOR changes using Lemmiwinks.

Anyone has a map/diagram of the ECU's components and when/how the EPROM settings kick in?

[jackyaudi]

Does that mean I have to mail Martin his SPS3?

Trying as much as possible to find someone who has one locally first. I guess as an absolute last resort, we could have it mailed to here.