accessory drive pulleys

[Plasticar]

Has anyone used the ECS lightweight accessory pulleys that come in one of the kits? I am not quite ready to change the timing belt, but am looking at possibly adding these to the change. Do they make any difference in engine spool-up, or are they just for show? The theory of reducing rotating weight is good. Rotating weight is the best place to save. Just not sure if this is a worthwhile "improvement". Any experiences? Thanks for the comments.

[illaudiill]

Has anyone used the ECS lightweight accessory pulleys that come in one of the kits? I am not quite ready to change the timing belt, but am looking at possibly adding these to the change. Do they make any difference in engine spool-up, or are they just for show? The theory of reducing rotating weight is good. Rotating weight is the best place to save. Just not sure if this is a worthwhile "improvement". Any experiences? Thanks for the comments.

i want the same thing it has the light weight crank and power steering.....dunno but i hear it add instant power to the wheels prolly about 5-7 HP..

[monkey323i]

my accesory drive pulley is cracked and needs to be replaced ASAP.

OEM audi one costs $350 USD +.

I'm thinking to go for lightweight crankshaft pulley as they're $140 at ECS.

I heard with this pulley you'll also feel more instant resonse from rev up.


I have 1 question.
When I replace this crankshaft pulley with lightweight pulley, is there also other parts nesscessary to be installed at the same time? or no other mod is required when doing this job?


Thanks!!


here's my cracked "Crankshaft pulley" pic:

[illaudiill]

prolly new bolts but thats it

[Tomek6]

I had one put in yesterday. But it was along with the timing belt service, and oil change and a snub mount.

The whole car seems way different than before. I can def. feel the difference the snub mount is making. To be honest I don't really feel the difference in the pulley. But having held both pulleys in my hands. There is a HUGE difference in weight. There's no way that it makes no difference. I don't know if I would pay $170 for it. When I bought my pulley kit, the one with the lightweight pulley was on sale vs the regular kit not being on sale. So the price difference was only a few bucks so it was worth it then. Also the pulley didn't come with any screws or anthing and the guys that installed it didn't mention having to replace anything. Hope that helps.

[diagnosticator]

Has anyone used the ECS lightweight accessory pulleys that come in one of the kits? I am not quite ready to change the timing belt, but am looking at possibly adding these to the change. Do they make any difference in engine spool-up, or are they just for show? The theory of reducing rotating weight is good. Rotating weight is the best place to save. Just not sure if this is a worthwhile "improvement". Any experiences? Thanks for the comments.

The benefit of the "light weight" or race pulleys is to slow down the driven loads like the alternator and A/C compressor, so they use less engine power. Supposedly, making more power available to accelerate the car. The rotating mass of the pulleys is not the main thing here. However, if the stock crank pulley is removed, and a light weight pulley installed, the function of the stock front pulley aka "torsional vibration damper" will be lost, and will cause the torsional vibration in the crankshaft*, to be transmitted to the cams and accessories instead causing lots more wear on the timing belt and loss of cam timing accuracy.

*The crankshaft twists and untwists a little with every cylinder power stroke, and vibrates around the center of rotation at the frequency of the power strokes occurring. When the forced vibration is synchronous with the vibration frequency that the crank vibrates at naturally,** the magnitude of the vibration can damage driven components and even break the crankshaft.

** This is the engines "critical speed", every engine has a critical speed and should not be operated at that speed for long periods.

[illaudiill]

so your not advising in changing it....but i know a lot of people who have it and had it for a while and havent had any problems. whats going on here?

[diagnosticator]

so your not advising in changing it....but i know a lot of people who have it and had it for a while and havent had any problems. whats going on here?

Well, in the case of removing the stock harmonic vibration damper/pulley and using a light weight pulley instead, I believe that there has been no problems that anyone was aware of.
The effect on cam timing and increased wear and stress on the timing belt and cam chain, will result, even if the no one has experienced a broken crank or failed rod bearings yet.
When running larger driven pulleys on the accessories, the effect on the battery when the alternator is run slower, may or may not become a problem. Same with running the A/C compressor and the power steering pump slower, it depends on conditions, and there is minimal/no reserve capacity of the driven accessories when run slower.

There decision on if the 5 hp(?) freed up by running the accessories slower, compared to the drawbacks that can occur, is only something that each person must decide, but the facts need to be known for an informed decision.
The OEM parts are not designed arbitrarily, there is good reason for the drive ratios used, and the inclusion of a harmonic vibration damper is for the minimization of the torsional vibrations in the crank, and reducing the negative effect on the accessories and cam shaft drives that uncontrolled torsional vibrations will cause. For example, considering the millions of dollars Audi spent to get the best fuel economy possible for the hardware comprising the B6, I am confident the accessories are not over driven, using excessive drive ratios, as that would increase fuel consumption needlessly.
Therefore the stock drive ratios are as slow as reasonably possible while achieving the specified performance from the driven accessories.

[monkey323i]

I had one put in yesterday. But it was along with the timing belt service, and oil change and a snub mount.

The whole car seems way different than before. I can def. feel the difference the snub mount is making. To be honest I don't really feel the difference in the pulley. But having held both pulleys in my hands. There is a HUGE difference in weight. There's no way that it makes no difference. I don't know if I would pay $170 for it. When I bought my pulley kit, the one with the lightweight pulley was on sale vs the regular kit not being on sale. So the price difference was only a few bucks so it was worth it then. Also the pulley didn't come with any screws or anthing and the guys that installed it didn't mention having to replace anything. Hope that helps.

thx man!!

btw, where did you buy the lightweight pulley kit from?

[monkey323i]

Well, in the case of removing the stock harmonic vibration damper/pulley and using a light weight pulley instead, I believe that there has been no problems that anyone was aware of.
The effect on cam timing and increased wear and stress on the timing belt and cam chain, will result, even if the no one has experienced a broken crank or failed rod bearings yet.
When running larger driven pulleys on the accessories, the effect on the battery when the alternator is run slower, may or may not become a problem. Same with running the A/C compressor and the power steering pump slower, it depends on conditions, and there is minimal/no reserve capacity of the driven accessories when run slower.

There decision on if the 5 hp(?) freed up by running the accessories slower, compared to the drawbacks that can occur, is only something that each person must decide, but the facts need to be known for an informed decision.
The OEM parts are not designed arbitrarily, there is good reason for the drive ratios used, and the inclusion of a harmonic vibration damper is for the minimization of the torsional vibrations in the crank, and reducing the negative effect on the accessories and cam shaft drives that uncontrolled torsional vibrations will cause. For example, considering the millions of dollars Audi spent to get the best fuel economy possible for the hardware comprising the B6, I am confident the accessories are not over driven, using excessive drive ratios, as that would increase fuel consumption needlessly.
Therefore the stock drive ratios are as slow as reasonably possible while achieving the specified performance from the driven accessories.

This is also why my "harmonic vibration damper" was cracked (the rubber part)

it is very rare case tho.


havn't heard any case that ppl got broken crank or failed rod bearings from lightweightpulley. In fact, some of them even passed 100k and still running strong.

There has been a debate about having harmonic vibration damper or not. Some said now modern engines already are internally balanced.

[infernocl]

1.8t is a rough engine, it is not balanced enough to begin with

[diagnosticator]

my accessory drive pulley is cracked and needs to be replaced ASAP.

OEM audi one costs $350 USD +.

I'm thinking to go for lightweight crankshaft pulley as they're $140 at ECS.

I heard with this pulley you'll also feel more instant resonse from rev up.


I have 1 question.
When I replace this crankshaft pulley with lightweight pulley, is there also other parts necessary to be installed at the same time? or no other mod is required when doing this job?


Thanks!!


here's my cracked "Crankshaft pulley" pic:

The "cracked" part of the harmonic vibration dampener assembly, is the rubber insert separating the hub from the dampener ring. The inertia of the outer ring piece, causes the ring to lag behind the accelerations of the hub as it vibrates torsionally, the drag of the ring providing the dampening effect on the crankshaft vibrations. The rubber insert converts the absorbed vibrational energy into heat. The weight of the stock TVD, compared to the lightweight pulley, is needed for the dampener to function as a vibration absorber. Without that mass ring, the light weight pulley will allow the crankshaft vibrations to be transmitted full force into the cam timing belt and cams, as well as increase the stresses on the accessory drive. The magnitude of the crankshaft vibrations will increase also.

[downhillracer]

doesn't the ecs pulley have the rubber damper in it...or is it solid...if its solid i would not recommend it

[diagnosticator]

This is also why my "harmonic vibration damper" was cracked (the rubber part)

it is very rare case tho.


havn't heard any case that ppl got broken crank or failed rod bearings from lightweightpulley. In fact, some of them even passed 100k and still running strong.

There has been a debate about having harmonic vibration damper or not. Some said now modern engines already are internally balanced.

Yeah, the debate is not a new subject for sure. There isn't much factual evidence usually only casual or second hand experience supporting the arguments claiming there is no negative effect running without the THVD included in the discussions however. (Because there aren't any.)
Also, the issue of engine balance both static and dynamic balance, is separate from the crankshaft torsional vibrations that all engine have more or less as an rpm and load dependent variable.

To be clear, I am not saying that the lightweight and or under drive ratio accessory pulleys don't provide a few more horsepower, they will for sure, but the trade offs involved must be considered.

[monkey323i]

The "cracked" part of the harmonic vibration dampener assembly, is the rubber insert separating the hub from the dampener ring. The inertia of the outer ring piece, causes the ring to lag behind the accelerations of the hub as it vibrates torsionally, the drag of the ring providing the dampening effect on the crankshaft vibrations. The rubber insert converts the absorbed vibrational energy into heat. The weight of the stock TVD, compared to the lightweight pulley, is needed for the dampener to function as a vibration absorber. Without that mass ring, the light weight pulley will allow the crankshaft vibrations to be transmitted full force into the cam timing belt and cams, as well as increase the stresses on the accessory drive. The magnitude of the crankshaft vibrations will increase also.

ya, I know all that. Searched on wiki last month.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic_balancer

the rubber element which absorbs vibrations are missing in lightweight pulley.

[diagnosticator]

1.8t is a rough engine, it is not balanced enough to being with

For a 4 cylinder engine that does'nt use a counter rotating dynamic balancer assembly, like the old 2.0TFSI and the new 1.8TFSI/2.0TFSI engines do,
I think the 1.8T is amazingly smooth. Maybe it's the way Audi mounts the engine compared to the transverse installation that makes the difference?

[diagnosticator]

ya, I know all that. Searched on wiki last month.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic_balancer

the rubber element which absorbs vibrations are missing in lightweight pulley.

You are informed more that most here then!

To add, the rubber element separating the hub from the outer ring, won't be effective without the heavy weight of the outer mass ring, it's the inertia of the outer ring that creates the damping effect.

Interesting also, concerning the torsional vibrations transmitted to the cams and accessories, the B7 2.0TFSI engine uses an OVAL timing drive sprocket on the crank. The benefit is from the tension in the belt varying from the oval shape, as the sprocket rotates, opposes the vibrations from the crankshaft, and decreases to transmitted torsional vibrations to the cams, resulting in more accurate cam timing, lower cam timing belt stress and increased rotational smoothness of the cams.

[pondside36]

I have a light wieght crank pully that I didn't install due to the above reasons persuading me not too. PM me if you are interested in it.

[Plasticar]

Very good points. I was aware of the advantages of reducing rotating mass, but hadn't thought of the harmonic dampening. You are correct, the 1.8T is not a particularly smooth engine (like a Honda 4cyl) and does not have a counter-rotating balance shaft. The dampening effect is likely pretty important on a long-term basis. Yes, usually lighter is better, but there are times when you need a little extra beef. I think this is one of them. Thanks for the intelligent comments.

[monkey323i]

I have a light wieght crank pully that I didn't install due to the above reasons persuading me not too. PM me if you are interested in it.

I've been looking for local B6 AVK-3.0 engine that is parting out with
OEM crankshaft pulley available. So far no luck at all!!!
pocket's been tight.

brand new OEM one is $400+ from dealer.

figured I'm ganna only drive this car for 1 more year, so I decided to just throw in light weight pulley which is a lot less.

too bad yours is 1.8T, else I'd be very interested in buying from u.

[pondside36]

No problem, figured I would offer since my car is at 103k and timing belt is obviously done so unless I pull the motor I won't be installing the light weight pully that is collecting dust with all my stock parts.. lol

[Tomek6]

I bought mine from ECS. It was included in the timing belt kit. I didn't know any of this stuff when I bought the pulley. When I saw the factory pulley with the weight in it I thought there must be a reason why it's in there. So, lets say that this does damage something after time. What's the worst that could happen?

[sonoflight]

...So, lets say that this does damage something after time. What's the worst that could happen?

Um, haven't you been reading? Broken crank = probable cylinder head and block damage = new long block.

[Tomek6]

Yeah I did read it but I'm having one of those days where if I read something too long and detailed it goes in one end n out the other. I just needed to be told exactly what you wrote. Thanks.

So. This hasn't really been proven though? And if hasn't been proven because ppl don't know that the damage has been done by the pulley. How many ppl have had broken crankshafts for "unknown" reasons or any other reason?

Like I said. I didn't know any of this or else I probably wouldn't have gotten the pulley. Now I'm a little worried since I don't think I can afford a new block and all the work that would go into it. I'm just trying to be realistic. What are the chances of something going wrong?

[diagnosticator]

The damaging effects of uncontrolled torsional vibration in the crankshaft and connected driven parts, is very well known, with a long history. The situation specifically with the 1.8T, has not been determined finally. That is, the natural vibration frequency of the 1.8T crankshaft may not coincide with a "critical speed" operating rpm that is within the range of engine speeds experienced on the street driven car.
Regardless, the other negative effects caused by undamped torsional vibration transmitted to the driven components, is also fact. This is all based on the principles of engine design and operation, and is established technical fact known for almost 75 years.

[Tomek6]

So im screwed then. Why would anyone make a part that will destroy your engine and not mention anything about it?

[Tomek6]

Well I'll let you guys know when/if she blows up.

[A4SoftWalker]

So im screwed then. Why would anyone make a part that will destroy your engine and not mention anything about it?

ECS Tuning is not alone Neuspeed makes a lightweight crank pulley too

With all the proven durability of the 1.8T and its ability to "hold" 300hp stock with no internal modifications will this crank pulley really have the potential to do all that harm?

After all imagine all the increased vibrations with the massively increased explosions in each cylinder with an APR 3+ for example. The crankshaft and cams must be just plain tortured out of their existence but APR is able to warrantee their product.

I run a lightweight flywheel not a super lightweight one but 20% lighter nonetheless. A local tuner whom I will not mention tried to scare me with all this talk about how the engine was not balanced and had all these masses of metal just flying around in there but my car feels as smooth as ever.

This design attempted to limit the effects of underdriving by maintaining the same diameter while reducing weight. Guess we wont know the harm until someone reports a broken crank with "only"150 AWHP

[heateris]

Has anyone used the ECS lightweight accessory pulleys that come in one of the kits? I am not quite ready to change the timing belt, but am looking at possibly adding these to the change. Do they make any difference in engine spool-up, or are they just for show? The theory of reducing rotating weight is good. Rotating weight is the best place to save. Just not sure if this is a worthwhile "improvement". Any experiences? Thanks for the comments.

i added the ECS pulley when i did my timing belt at 70ishK. i'm at 82K now without any problems.

the pulley made then engine feel a bit looser and rev a bit quicker. i also have GIAC FX, AWE exhaust, K&N filter, etc.

[Tomek6]

I'm taking mine off Monday. Screw this too much risk for very little gain.

[Tomek6]

Finally managed to get the pulley back to stock. Huge difference. Car seems quieter and smoother.

[JEENYUS]

this is an old thread i know... but i would like to see if i can get a discussion to continue but on the 3.0 side of the spectrum vs the 1.8t. My car is SOOOO SLOWWW the shifting on the tiptronic is unbareably slow and the drive train lag sucks pretty bad as well... i am just getting to the point of wanting to sell my car because of this and buy a 2.0t, but i want to see what i can do first since i am particualar to a N/A motor (yeah, right?) Someone please shed some light on the pulley for the 3.slow.... TIA.

[A4SoftWalker]

My ECS underdrive pulley has been on for over 2 years now. Currently @ 250+hp crank no problems ...

[JEENYUS]

My ECS underdrive pulley has been on for over 2 years now. Currently @ 250+hp crank no problems ...

but you are a 1.8t, right? what would be the pros and cons on a N/A 3.0? is it basically the same senerio? also, does it increase the low end or high end response/hp?

[widgget]

this is an old thread i know... but i would like to see if i can get a discussion to continue but on the 3.0 side of the spectrum vs the 1.8t. My car is SOOOO SLOWWW the shifting on the tiptronic is unbareably slow and the drive train lag sucks pretty bad as well... i am just getting to the point of wanting to sell my car because of this and buy a 2.0t, but i want to see what i can do first since i am particualar to a N/A motor (yeah, right?) Someone please shed some light on the pulley for the 3.slow.... TIA.

you can fix the shifting slowness with a tq converter and valve body maybe a flash on top of that too.

but you are a 1.8t, right? what would be the pros and cons on a N/A 3.0? is it basically the same senerio? also, does it increase the low end or high end response/hp?

it's just a slight response increase, not sure if you would notice it or not. basically there is less weight to push so it can accelerate a hair faster. not sure i would bother based on the price for what you get and also the nagging thought in the back of my head that i am probably hurting the engine.

i know your a 3.0 but the same deal applies.

[A4SoftWalker]

It increases the acc rate across the board but u have to remember how slow the original engine acc is. It is not noticeable unless side-by-side with the same car. It still revs slowly. That is due to the drive-by-wire/emissions reasons. Its not like revving a motorcycle or a race motor.

My V70R wagon in Advanced setting does that ... intoxicating I love that motor just a notch under 400hp... sigh...

[JEENYUS]

looks like it is about time to sell the car or trade it in for something else... i want an avant s4 or a b7 2.0t... how disappointing.

[diagnosticator]

looks like it is about time to sell the car or trade it in for something else... i want an avant s4 or a b7 2.0t... how disappointing.

Before you do something as drastic, try a Spring Booster first.

[nein-reis]

looks like it is about time to sell the car or trade it in for something else... i want an avant s4 or a b7 2.0t... how disappointing.

I fixed my 3.0's sluggish issues... much much much faster now. You could do the same...