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  1. #1
    Senior Member Three Rings Spykce's Avatar
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    Battery Relocation Questions/Project

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    I have been reading through some relocation threads and I have a few questions some of you may be able to clear up. I am planning to do this tomorrow on my day off.

    Wire: 0 and 2 gauge seem to be the most commonly used. What is your opinion? Stock system, may add a stereo system in the future, would be a small sub and speaker system at most.

    Fuse: yes or no? What size? Some write-ups say you need one some have no mention of one.

    Venting: With a conventional battery does it need to vent outside?

    Mounting: What tie down system do you prefer, the small bracket on the base, over the top, other?

    I have a spare 2 gauge cable with an inline fuse in it from a stereo install a few years ago that I was planning to use. If this is not recommended I'll go get a new cable.

    UPDATE: Alright so here is my idea. I'm not finished yet so I don't know how it will work but I wanted to try. Here's my progress thus far.

    Step 1: Location

    I chose to try and "hide" the battery as best as I could, to me the ideal spot was where the cd changer and tool case is. After some measuring I found the stock battery would fit. However I have now decided to go with an optima, which fits much better. So clear the location of all the unneeded "junk". I found this easiest by removing the trim along the latch and the pulling back the molded carpet. It is held in with some push style clips that are in quite firmly.

    I did not have a cd changer so I didn't need to remove it (duh). The tool case is removed by lifting the handle and pulling outwards, incase someone didn't know. Now your metal frame you are left with is secured with 5 bolts. 2 on the left, 2 on the trunk floor and 1 on the right, hidden somewhat behind the sound deadening. Remove all 5 and TADA! however look on the bottom of this frame and you'll find a small box attached. Remove this as well.



    Step 2: Brackets

    I thought to myself, how can I make a shelf to put the battery on. Wait this frame will work great! However some modification is required. I actually only wanted to the brackets on this frame. So take the frame to a suitable operating area. You will need a drill, I also needed a chisel and hammer. Now you'll notice the frame has 2 main brackets held on with some tack welds. I drilled these out and used the chisel to finish knocking them off of the frame. You should now have 2 brackets to make your shelf with.




    Step 3: Shelf/Tray

    The stock battery is approximately 7" x 11" so I cut my shelf to this specification using some scrap wood. Once the shelf was cut I mounted the brackets back in the car and mocked up where the brackets needed to be cut.



    Step 4: Brackets! Again!
    I used a hack saw to trim them up to fit my shelf. I was originally planning on a stock battery so I trimmed quite a bit out. An optima is nearly 2 inches smaller in length so you could keep more of the bracket if you so desire. This is how my brackets looked after trimming and a quick spray of paint.



    I also chose to cover my little shelf before attaching the brackets. When everything is assembled it should look something like this.



    Step 5: Mounting

    I attempted to get the brackets mounted right the first time but I did need to do some repositioning. Once everything was lining up how I wanted I bolted it down. Then you can see how much of your carpet needs to be trimmed.

    Mounted:


    Carpeted Trimmed:


    Door Closed


    The little door just barely sticks out from the corner of the shelf hitting it. I may trim it down a little since I am going with a different battery now and won't need the full space. I am very happy with the results however. I am thinking though I may need some additional support if I go with an optima. I have to see if this will hold the weight or not, as well as come up with a mounting method.

    I'll update when more progress is made.

    I am looking into a light weight battery but I will probably be going with an optima. I need to keep enough CCA's and light weights don't seem to have a lot.
    Last edited by Spykce; 12-13-2008 at 11:17 AM.
    Current Car: 2000 A4 1.8TQ Frankenturbo Build | 2012 Passat TDI
    History: C6 A6 4.2, B7 S4, Mk V GTI, Mk IV GTI Vr6, Audi 80, Audi 4000 Q, B5 A4 1.8TQ x 5, B5 A4 V6, Mk II Cabriolet x 4, B5 Passat 1.8T, Mk II Scirocco, Audi TT 1.8TQ, Mk III GTI Vr6, C5 Allroad 2.7T x 3, '86 VW Quantum Wagon

  2. #2
    Senior Member Three Rings rocketheavy's Avatar
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    Re: Battery Relocation Questions

    go to your local stereo shop and they sell battery kits with fuses included
    03' 1.8T Tiptronic
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  3. #3
    Veteran Member Three Rings
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    Re: Battery Relocation Questions

    I chose to not use a fuse, but a huge breaker so that I could trip it as a battery off switch

    you will need to use some huge cable, I used 0 gauge, be very carefull with routing

    as far as venting, yes it should be vented, expecialy if its a liquid filled battery

    with something like an optima you can get away without it, but it may not be race legal


    my question is why, for weight placement, or space?

    I can't think of anything gong where our batterys are located that couldn't go in the trunk (water tank for water injection perhaps?)
    Nine [O_O] Eight Tuning
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  4. #4
    Senior Member Three Rings Spykce's Avatar
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    Re: Battery Relocation Questions

    I got the idea from the wire tuck thread to move the battery to the trunk and coolant tank where the battery is. Simply for easier access to the oil filter and to clean up the bay a little.

    Well if I need 0 gauge it is very expensive, I didn't quite realize how expensive till I looked. What size fuse should I use? My local stereo shop doesn't have any battery kits, lots of amp kits though. I'm going to do some more looking to see if I can find 0 anywhere else for cheaper. I have the new location ready, just deciding on mounting. I picked up a distribution block to use up front for the existing two cables and the new one.
    Current Car: 2000 A4 1.8TQ Frankenturbo Build | 2012 Passat TDI
    History: C6 A6 4.2, B7 S4, Mk V GTI, Mk IV GTI Vr6, Audi 80, Audi 4000 Q, B5 A4 1.8TQ x 5, B5 A4 V6, Mk II Cabriolet x 4, B5 Passat 1.8T, Mk II Scirocco, Audi TT 1.8TQ, Mk III GTI Vr6, C5 Allroad 2.7T x 3, '86 VW Quantum Wagon

  5. #5
    Veteran Member Four Rings onemoremile's Avatar
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    Re: Battery Relocation Questions

    Markup on fat wires is 2-300%. Find them online for half price after shipping.

    Careful with the breaker. Make sure that the starter won't draw enough current to trip it. And get an Optima if you're mounting it in the trunk.
    Jim

    We cannot achieve the future by being timid. It requires aggressive imagination.

    I Do Werk.

  6. #6
    Account Terminated Four Rings mike-2ptzero's Avatar
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    Re: Battery Relocation Questions

    I bought all of my stuff from Summit Racing. I just bought a kit that included a 2 gauge main red cable and ground cable, I also bought a Taylor battery box.


  7. #7
    Veteran Member Four Rings SoFresh's Avatar
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    Re: Battery Relocation Questions

    Make sure no matter what you do, mount that down with a true trunk mounting kit!! You dont want that thing flying around! Also, be careful drilling in the trunk not to drill into your gas tank, might cause slight issues...
    Production Manager - Gunther Werks
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  8. #8
    Senior Member Three Rings Spykce's Avatar
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    Re: Battery Relocation Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by SoFresh View Post
    Also, be careful drilling in the trunk not to drill into your gas tank, might cause slight issues...
    lol, I love that! Yea a few....

    Alright well I ordered everything else online. So much cheaper!

    As for mounting, it seems the over the top method is best so we'll go with that. Optima could probably happen next paycheck. Had to finish up with the christmas shopping with this one so maybe I won't move it till then. I'd like to get as much as I can ready though.

    Mike where did you run your power cable? I've been trying to decide the best route for it. Seems going in by the driver's side is easiest and running it along the side.
    Current Car: 2000 A4 1.8TQ Frankenturbo Build | 2012 Passat TDI
    History: C6 A6 4.2, B7 S4, Mk V GTI, Mk IV GTI Vr6, Audi 80, Audi 4000 Q, B5 A4 1.8TQ x 5, B5 A4 V6, Mk II Cabriolet x 4, B5 Passat 1.8T, Mk II Scirocco, Audi TT 1.8TQ, Mk III GTI Vr6, C5 Allroad 2.7T x 3, '86 VW Quantum Wagon

  9. #9
    Account Terminated Four Rings mike-2ptzero's Avatar
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    Re: Battery Relocation Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Spykce View Post
    lol, I love that! Yea a few....

    Alright well I ordered everything else online. So much cheaper!

    As for mounting, it seems the over the top method is best so we'll go with that. Optima could probably happen next paycheck. Had to finish up with the christmas shopping with this one so maybe I won't move it till then. I'd like to get as much as I can ready though.

    Mike where did you run your power cable? I've been trying to decide the best route for it. Seems going in by the driver's side is easiest and running it along the side.
    Yeah I ran mine down the driverside of the car.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Three Rings Spykce's Avatar
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    Re: Battery Relocation Questions/Project

    Added my progress. Hoping to be done sometime next week. Whenever the wire comes and I pick up an optima and be sure the shelf will hold.
    Current Car: 2000 A4 1.8TQ Frankenturbo Build | 2012 Passat TDI
    History: C6 A6 4.2, B7 S4, Mk V GTI, Mk IV GTI Vr6, Audi 80, Audi 4000 Q, B5 A4 1.8TQ x 5, B5 A4 V6, Mk II Cabriolet x 4, B5 Passat 1.8T, Mk II Scirocco, Audi TT 1.8TQ, Mk III GTI Vr6, C5 Allroad 2.7T x 3, '86 VW Quantum Wagon

  11. #11
    Senior Member Three Rings Spykce's Avatar
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    Re: Battery Relocation Questions/Project

    Yellow top or Red top Optima?

    We have the yellow top in stock so I get a better discount than ordering a red top but in the end the difference will only be about $15 so any preferences??

    Not planning on a huge system ever, max would be aftermarket speakers with an amp hooked to them.
    Current Car: 2000 A4 1.8TQ Frankenturbo Build | 2012 Passat TDI
    History: C6 A6 4.2, B7 S4, Mk V GTI, Mk IV GTI Vr6, Audi 80, Audi 4000 Q, B5 A4 1.8TQ x 5, B5 A4 V6, Mk II Cabriolet x 4, B5 Passat 1.8T, Mk II Scirocco, Audi TT 1.8TQ, Mk III GTI Vr6, C5 Allroad 2.7T x 3, '86 VW Quantum Wagon

  12. #12
    Veteran Member Four Rings zrowcool's Avatar
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    Re: Battery Relocation Questions/Project

    i'd say yellow top. I've had both and i liek the yellow top a bit better. It has less cranking and cold cranking amps but it reduced the dimming i get from my stereo a tiny bit. Also is a deep cycle so if it were to get drained for some reason it wont damage the battery as much
    2000 A4 1.8tq

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  13. #13
    Veteran Member Four Rings onemoremile's Avatar
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    Re: Battery Relocation Questions/Project

    Red top. 34 or 34R.
    Jim

    We cannot achieve the future by being timid. It requires aggressive imagination.

    I Do Werk.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Three Rings Spykce's Avatar
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    Re: Battery Relocation Questions/Project

    Well we just happen to have a 34R in the store, so I like that. Makes it rather cheap.

    Thanks!
    Current Car: 2000 A4 1.8TQ Frankenturbo Build | 2012 Passat TDI
    History: C6 A6 4.2, B7 S4, Mk V GTI, Mk IV GTI Vr6, Audi 80, Audi 4000 Q, B5 A4 1.8TQ x 5, B5 A4 V6, Mk II Cabriolet x 4, B5 Passat 1.8T, Mk II Scirocco, Audi TT 1.8TQ, Mk III GTI Vr6, C5 Allroad 2.7T x 3, '86 VW Quantum Wagon

  15. #15
    Account Terminated Four Rings
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    Re: Battery Relocation Questions/Project

    I dont get it... If i was to spend all this time/$$$ for a mod why not get a lite wieght braille battery and save some weight while your at it? Not to metion its have the size and easier to fit into tight spots...

  16. #16
    Senior Member Three Rings Spykce's Avatar
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    Re: Battery Relocation Questions/Project

    I have no personal experience with brailles but I have heard pros and cons about them. I could consider it. They have very low CCA's though. I can get the optima for about $90 however...
    Current Car: 2000 A4 1.8TQ Frankenturbo Build | 2012 Passat TDI
    History: C6 A6 4.2, B7 S4, Mk V GTI, Mk IV GTI Vr6, Audi 80, Audi 4000 Q, B5 A4 1.8TQ x 5, B5 A4 V6, Mk II Cabriolet x 4, B5 Passat 1.8T, Mk II Scirocco, Audi TT 1.8TQ, Mk III GTI Vr6, C5 Allroad 2.7T x 3, '86 VW Quantum Wagon

  17. #17
    Veteran Member Four Rings djwimbo's Avatar
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    Re: Battery Relocation Questions/Project

    The problem with using a fuse is using one that's large enough. You can use one if you want, but you're going to need at least a 250A fuse. The Avg 4cyl(9.0:1-10.5:1CR) peak amperage draw is 200-225A and continuous ~150-175A. Some are less, but that depends on displacement, compression, wear, CLEAN contacts, etc.

    Personally I wouldn't use a fuse, I would install a switch though, but that's me.

    0 AWG is overkill, 2AWG will be fine. That's enough amperage flow to start a 12:1 >350ci V8. Over distances >15-18 feet 4AWG isn't rated at much more than 120-150A depending on quality of the cable.

    If you don't want to use a vented system, you (legally) should use either an Optima (I prefer red top, esp if you're thinking about a stereo) or an AGM battery. AGM = Absorbed Glass Mat. It doesn't have a lead core like a standard battery. Either the gel cell or AGM are the only two options you have as far as legal ones if you're putting the battery in the passenger compartment. Even though they both are recommended to be "vented". If you remember the 1st Gen Prius, that has those goofy vents on the C-pillar, those were vents for the HV battery and the 12V battery in the trunk.
    "Thank god I had my body, because it felt so good."

  18. #18
    Senior Member Three Rings Spykce's Avatar
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    Re: Battery Relocation Questions/Project

    Quote Originally Posted by djwimbo View Post
    The problem with using a fuse is using one that's large enough. You can use one if you want, but you're going to need at least a 250A fuse. The Avg 4cyl(9.0:1-10.5:1CR) peak amperage draw is 200-225A and continuous ~150-175A. Some are less, but that depends on displacement, compression, wear, CLEAN contacts, etc.

    Personally I wouldn't use a fuse, I would install a switch though, but that's me.

    0 AWG is overkill, 2AWG will be fine. That's enough amperage flow to start a 12:1 >350ci V8. Over distances >15-18 feet 4AWG isn't rated at much more than 120-150A depending on quality of the cable.

    If you don't want to use a vented system, you (legally) should use either an Optima (I prefer red top, esp if you're thinking about a stereo) or an AGM battery. AGM = Absorbed Glass Mat. It doesn't have a lead core like a standard battery. Either the gel cell or AGM are the only two options you have as far as legal ones if you're putting the battery in the passenger compartment. Even though they both are recommended to be "vented". If you remember the 1st Gen Prius, that has those goofy vents on the C-pillar, those were vents for the HV battery and the 12V battery in the trunk.
    Good info! Thanks!
    Current Car: 2000 A4 1.8TQ Frankenturbo Build | 2012 Passat TDI
    History: C6 A6 4.2, B7 S4, Mk V GTI, Mk IV GTI Vr6, Audi 80, Audi 4000 Q, B5 A4 1.8TQ x 5, B5 A4 V6, Mk II Cabriolet x 4, B5 Passat 1.8T, Mk II Scirocco, Audi TT 1.8TQ, Mk III GTI Vr6, C5 Allroad 2.7T x 3, '86 VW Quantum Wagon

  19. #19
    Veteran Member Four Rings djwimbo's Avatar
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    Re: Battery Relocation Questions/Project

    You're welcome. Glad I can help somebody.
    "Thank god I had my body, because it felt so good."

  20. #20
    Senior Member Three Rings Spykce's Avatar
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    Re: Battery Relocation Questions/Project

    So on the topic of lightweight batteries...

    I am very interested but also concerned about the CCA of them. Has anyone bought one and had it not work for them in winter? An optima is obviously a safer bet for winter but the idea of a 15lb battery vs a 37lb one sounds quite nice.

    I'm not gonna bother with reliability because batteries are such a toss up anyways sadly. Past posts show people who love about every brand out there for one reason or another, as well as hate a brand for whatever reason.

    I just want to know has anyone been stuck because the battery is to weak in winter? I'm not really wanting that to happen....

    Or does anyone know the MINIMUM CCA's our cars need?
    Current Car: 2000 A4 1.8TQ Frankenturbo Build | 2012 Passat TDI
    History: C6 A6 4.2, B7 S4, Mk V GTI, Mk IV GTI Vr6, Audi 80, Audi 4000 Q, B5 A4 1.8TQ x 5, B5 A4 V6, Mk II Cabriolet x 4, B5 Passat 1.8T, Mk II Scirocco, Audi TT 1.8TQ, Mk III GTI Vr6, C5 Allroad 2.7T x 3, '86 VW Quantum Wagon

  21. #21
    Veteran Member Four Rings djwimbo's Avatar
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    Re: Battery Relocation Questions/Project

    Ideally the minimum CCA you want is twice what your car needs to crank (normally). For our cars that would be ~450CCA. I wouldn't go less than that unless you want to swap out batteries for the winter. The biggest weight loss for the battery is reducing the Reserve Capacity, labeled on top of the battery as "RC".

    It's a rating based on how long(minutes) you can draw X-amps, and still maintain proper voltage for start-up. You'll probably find most of the lightweight batteries will have a very low RC(40-50mins) vs a full size battery's RC(80-140+).
    This is a factor when your car sits overnight, when you forget to turn the headlights off, if you listen to the radio on your lunch break w/o turning your car on, etc. If your car sits for an extended period of time the RC is the biggest factor that fights parasitic draw. If you don't know what parasitic draw is I can explain that too. Pretty much if you have a low reserve capacity on your battery, you need to either keep an eye on your voltage before/during startup if it sits a couple days OR pick up a low amp battery charger (10Amp max) to keep your battery alive for the times you don't drive it for 4+ days.
    This of course all depends on the size battery you choose as well. My buddy Zach had a tiny battery in his 240SX(almost motorcycle sized), the only reason he got away with it is b/c he didn't drive it in the winter. Now he lives in FL, so he doesn't care.
    "Thank god I had my body, because it felt so good."

  22. #22
    Senior Member Three Rings Spykce's Avatar
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    Re: Battery Relocation Questions/Project

    Yeah I have noticed a lot of the lightweight battery people live in warm climates. My car is driven everyday so that isn't an issue but I think only 1 battery was rated over 450 CCA. It is still pretty light but rather expensive. Makes me curious about using a Honda battery instead. It's rather light compared to the stock one. I think it's rated around 550 CCA.
    Current Car: 2000 A4 1.8TQ Frankenturbo Build | 2012 Passat TDI
    History: C6 A6 4.2, B7 S4, Mk V GTI, Mk IV GTI Vr6, Audi 80, Audi 4000 Q, B5 A4 1.8TQ x 5, B5 A4 V6, Mk II Cabriolet x 4, B5 Passat 1.8T, Mk II Scirocco, Audi TT 1.8TQ, Mk III GTI Vr6, C5 Allroad 2.7T x 3, '86 VW Quantum Wagon

  23. #23
    Veteran Member Four Rings djwimbo's Avatar
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    Re: Battery Relocation Questions/Project

    Those Honda batteries aren't THAT light. OR it could just be that they seem heavy b/c they're mounted by the "firewall" and you have to reach that far to pull it out.

    As far as a size constraint the Honda style batteries would be a good idea. I forget the battery series(size), but I would imagine it would work just fine.
    A std 34-series battery has 25-40% more room to make up the 500-600CCA, the smaller the battery producing the same power will have a more dense core(in lead batteries) making them very similar in weight as a "normal"/34-series battery.

    IIRC Optima's come in the smaller "Honda" style/size battery as well. Those should be lighter than a standard Lead-cell as well.
    "Thank god I had my body, because it felt so good."

  24. #24
    Senior Member Three Rings Spykce's Avatar
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    Re: Battery Relocation Questions/Project

    Optima used to make a smaller one but stopped not to long ago. I was checking the different ones we have available at work, if a "conventional" battery could be mounted in the back the bosch honda seems to be the best bet. It weighs 28 lbs vs the 39 lb 48-series I have now. I'm mainly after a smaller battery in size. Also the bosch 51-series has 600 CCA, which makes me feel a lot better. However I am still unsure about mounting a conventional battery in the back. The most I have ever done was an auto-x or drag event here and there. Maybe 2 or 3 a summer...
    Current Car: 2000 A4 1.8TQ Frankenturbo Build | 2012 Passat TDI
    History: C6 A6 4.2, B7 S4, Mk V GTI, Mk IV GTI Vr6, Audi 80, Audi 4000 Q, B5 A4 1.8TQ x 5, B5 A4 V6, Mk II Cabriolet x 4, B5 Passat 1.8T, Mk II Scirocco, Audi TT 1.8TQ, Mk III GTI Vr6, C5 Allroad 2.7T x 3, '86 VW Quantum Wagon

  25. #25
    Veteran Member Four Rings djwimbo's Avatar
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    Re: Battery Relocation Questions/Project

    You can if you want, but legally you're not supposed to.

    I won't think less of you if you use a "conventional" battery either.
    "Thank god I had my body, because it felt so good."

  26. #26
    Senior Member Three Rings Spykce's Avatar
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    Re: Battery Relocation Questions/Project

    Quote Originally Posted by djwimbo View Post
    You can if you want, but legally you're not supposed to.

    I won't think less of you if you use a "conventional" battery either.
    LOL, thanks.

    Legally as in race rules or state laws? I'm just curious since there are a couple GM's with battery's in the trunk or under the rear seat.

    I'm sure I could come up with a venting method. I may try this route, optima's are still rather tempting though. Either way it won't happen till next pay day.
    Current Car: 2000 A4 1.8TQ Frankenturbo Build | 2012 Passat TDI
    History: C6 A6 4.2, B7 S4, Mk V GTI, Mk IV GTI Vr6, Audi 80, Audi 4000 Q, B5 A4 1.8TQ x 5, B5 A4 V6, Mk II Cabriolet x 4, B5 Passat 1.8T, Mk II Scirocco, Audi TT 1.8TQ, Mk III GTI Vr6, C5 Allroad 2.7T x 3, '86 VW Quantum Wagon

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