gooing BT- Evo IX turbo ?

[andernalin_junk]

I'm thinkng of going BT real soon ...
I was thinking of getting a Evo IX twin scroll turbo (IHI)
Does anyone done this befor that could some details ?

[djwimbo]

I don't believe it's been done. Good luck finding a manifold to fit it. Twin Scroll and 1.8T don't go together often.

Why not go with a 2871 or 30R?

[Rhinop21]

or 40r...

[andernalin_junk]

Manifuld will not be a problem ...
One of the world's finest manifuld builder (tig-art)

He will build one for me (he is just waiting for an excuse)

Why not GT series ?
If i nor mistaken the Evo IX can put out up to 400WHP no?

[NoTec]

Why not GT series ?
If i nor mistaken the Evo IX can put out up to 400WHP no?

That turbo is a twin-scroll reverse rotating unit capable of 400 whp on an Evo9 with Cosworth M2 or M3 cams (or comparable), full cat-less turbo-back exhaust, cone filter, intercooler upgrade, exhaust manifold porting, ported o2 housing, injector upgrade, walbro 255 fp, 30+ pounds of boost, and a good tune for race gas, meth, or e85. I haven't seen anyone eclipse the 400 whp barrier with that turbo on a stock block Evo using 93 octane. Not saying it can't be done, just saying I haven't seen it.

Good luck bro. From what I've been told, these 1.8t heads outflow the heads on the Evo8 and 9. The Evo's compression is 8.8:1 but is a 2.0L while the 1.8t is 9.X:1 and 1.8L. With the same size turbo, these engines may make comparable power but you can clearly see above what is required to clip 400 whp on a Evo9. It isn't as cheap as many people think. It's also the reason I stopped at 340 whp.

[andernalin_junk]

That turbo is a twin-scroll reverse rotating unit capable of 400 whp on an Evo9 with Cosworth M2 or M3 cams (or comparable), full cat-less turbo-back exhaust, cone filter, intercooler upgrade, exhaust manifold porting, ported o2 housing, injector upgrade, walbro 255 fp, 30+ pounds of boost, and a good tune for race gas, meth, or e85.

.

my car has all those thing (excl. cams) and scat rodes
in Israel there is more then 1 Evo that out puts 400WHP (dont know how much boost) on a stock block with cams and exhause sys ...
and i saw all kind of seats in the UK doing very nice specs on that turbo

[NoTec]

my car has all those thing (excl. cams) and scat rodes
in Israel there is more then 1 Evo that out puts 400WHP (dont know how much boost) on a stock block with cams and exhause sys ...
and i saw all kind of seats in the UK doing very nice specs on that turbo

Then, you are pretty much all set with achieving your goal. The only issue is that running the amount of boost required for that power with the Evo9 turbo (~30 psi), will surely shorten the life of that turbo. At those psi levels, it is operating out of it's efficiency range. I'm not sure if it would be the ideal turbo for your application, but the results would still be pretty interesting to see. Whatever you choose to do, best of luck.

[blkb6a4]

I have always wondered why more people havn't tried using IHI/mitsubishi turbos they are super reliable, moderatly priced, water cooled, relatively quick spooling, and are available EVERY where. I come from the DSM world and I have been put in the subaru world(they use alot of mitsu turbo's also) because of my roommate.

Even a little 14b flows about the same as a K04 but the powerband is much more inear, and a 16g is about the same as a 28series, and a 20g is getting close to a 30r

14b's and 16g's can be picked up used, rebuilt and ready to rock for, I havn't looked in a while but, I bet around $500

I think if someone were to make an afforable manifold to fit a 16g to a 1.8 you could use a tweaked 28r/71r tune and put down some pretty good numbers

[NoTec]

I have always wondered why more people havn't tried using IHI/mitsubishi turbos they are super reliable, moderatly priced, water cooled, relatively quick spooling, and are available EVERY where. I come from the DSM world and I have been put in the subaru world(they use alot of mitsu turbo's also) because of my roommate.

Even a little 14b flows about the same as a K04 but the powerband is much more inear, and a 16g is about the same as a 28series, and a 20g is getting close to a 30r

14b's and 16g's can be picked up used, rebuilt and ready to rock for, I havn't looked in a while but, I bet around $500

I think if someone were to make an afforable manifold to fit a 16g to a 1.8 you could use a tweaked 28r/71r tune and put down some pretty good numbers

I completely agree. Used Evo9 turbos can be had for ~$300-650. The Evo8 turbos are even cheaper. If there was an affordable twin-scroll manifold available to fit this turbo, would it be a worthy upgrade. The only thing that I'm uncertain about is whether or not it makes a difference that the Mitsu turbos are reverse rotating. The EvoX is a standard rotating unit.

[andernalin_junk]

you can see hare:
http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=131357
there are 2 turbo kits with IHI/Mitsu turbo's
as i was sayin ... the guy that makes those manifulds for JBS is TIG-ART.COM (from my country) and i can have him custom me one (around 1K$)so the mani is no problem

the question is,is this turbo can do 400HP without killing himself

regarding the 20G turbos, one of my friends is going with 20G on a stock engine MK4 golf ... pretty strong ... will look up for a vid for you

[AudiA4_20T]

That turbo is a twin-scroll reverse rotating unit capable of 400 whp on an Evo9 with Cosworth M2 or M3 cams (or comparable), full cat-less turbo-back exhaust, cone filter, intercooler upgrade, exhaust manifold porting, ported o2 housing, injector upgrade, walbro 255 fp, 30+ pounds of boost, and a good tune for race gas, meth, or e85. I haven't seen anyone eclipse the 400 whp barrier with that turbo on a stock block Evo using 93 octane. Not saying it can't be done, just saying I haven't seen it.

Good luck bro. From what I've been told, these 1.8t heads outflow the heads on the Evo8 and 9. The Evo's compression is 8.8:1 but is a 2.0L while the 1.8t is 9.X:1 and 1.8L. With the same size turbo, these engines may make comparable power but you can clearly see above what is required to clip 400 whp on a Evo9. It isn't as cheap as many people think. It's also the reason I stopped at 340 whp.

The 1.8T will NOT outflow an Evo head, the AEB head is close, but still flows much less

[1fstavant]

idk bout evo 9 turbos but the 8s will only net about 385 to the wheels with cams and supporting mods

[M_souren]

Manifuld will not be a problem ...
One of the world's finest manifuld builder (tig-art)

He will build one for me (he is just waiting for an excuse)

Why not GT series ?
If i nor mistaken the Evo IX can put out up to 400WHP no?

Yes, It will put out 400whp on an evo 9. One of my best friends still runs the stock 16g and makes 395whp with cams, walbro, full catless TBE, hks ignition, greddy panel intake, boost pipes, and an AMS front mount. The car is also tuned by sean ivey and max boost is 21 psi.

...But. Your car is not an evo. It doesnt have a 4g63. It wont make nearly that power with the 16g. Though im sure with the right tuning it would make good if not great power and run well enough for daily use. I dont understand why running a twin scroll would cause problems.

[bernB5]

I don't think you'll break 400whp on a IX turbo... Evo's still have to break a sweat and have a hefty list of bolt-ons to achieve that, and the 4g63 outflows our motor in every way. I'd say at 30ish psi, intake manifold, aeb head, cams, you'd get close though.

Why not go with an FP Green? That will definitely get you there. It consistently makes around 30-40whp more at high boost than the stock evo IX turbo.

[01b5a4qms]

about 2 weeks ago i had a 16g on my car. had about a 30-40hp(crank) gain, judging from airflow logs, and that was with basicly no tuning at all, running rich as balls, and about 3 boost leaks that i found when i had to take it out. the 16g is a good turbo if you want to put the time and effort into putting one in.

[djwimbo]

idk bout evo 9 turbos but the 8s will only net about 385 to the wheels with cams and supporting mods

... Greg just made ~350whp on a GTRS(100% stock engine), I'll pass on all the BS needed to run a Mitsu turbo, when I can bolt one on and almost make the same power.

I used to work for a DSM shop, I'll pass on 14/16/20's. They're better than KKK stock turbos, that's it.

[blkb6a4]

... Greg just made ~350whp on a GTRS(100% stock engine), I'll pass on all the BS needed to run a Mitsu turbo, when I can bolt one on and almost make the same power.

I used to work for a DSM shop, I'll pass on 14/16/20's. They're better than KKK stock turbos, that's it.

I totally agree, I don't think anyone here tried to say that they were better than holset or garret ect just that they could potentialy be a cheaper solution to the never ending search for more power....

[NoTec]

Yes, It will put out 400whp on an evo 9. One of my best friends still runs the stock 16g and makes 395whp with cams, walbro, full catless TBE, hks ignition, greddy panel intake, boost pipes, and an AMS front mount. The car is also tuned by sean ivey and max boost is 21 psi.

That's incredibly hard to believe. You got an Evom link where I can see this. Again, I'm not doubting, just that it sounds like a wild number on 21 psi. With meth and crazy timing, it would be more believable.

[NoTec]

I totally agree, I don't think anyone here tried to say that they were better than holset or garret ect just that they could potentialy be a cheaper solution to the never ending search for more power....

Exactly! Evo turbo = 250-650 used. 9 turbo is like 8-900 new. GTRS = ~$1400. They'll probably net very similar horsepower.

[djwimbo]

Exactly! Evo turbo = 250-650 used. 9 turbo is like 8-900 new. GTRS = ~$1400. They'll probably net very similar horsepower.

You numbers aren't 100% accurate, but either way. I'd rather pay the $2850 for turbo, software + fueling parts from 034, and know that I have quality products a sound tune.

Maybe it's me and my priorities, and as much as I like to try something different than the next guy, I don't see myself running a 16G/20G. Ever.

Precision, Garrett, BorgWarner(Bullseye) and Forced Performance(HTA series) are pretty much what my choices would be limited to. That really depends on the application on output I want.

If everything was amazing stock we wouldn't modify cars. The Mitsu Turbos are stock, and people upgrade them, why settle for other people's trash?

I'm a believer in spending money to do it right the first time. ... That's also why I didn't buy the eliminator turbo. It would keep my happy for a season or two, but that's about it.

[mike-2ptzero]

Exactly! Evo turbo = 250-650 used. 9 turbo is like 8-900 new. GTRS = ~$1400. They'll probably net very similar horsepower.

But the GTRS is a bolt on, so you need to add another $1000 for a custom manifold that will bolt that EVO turbo to the A4 head. So exactly how does going with a EVO turbo make it cheaper?

[blkb6a4]

I'm willing to bet you could easily run a 28rs or 71 file on a 16g with minimal tweaks to account for the slightly slower lag and you could put close to 300awhp down....

I swear I have seen t3>mitsu flange adapters or maybe it was vise versa but I know the flanges are very similar in size, I bet for a super cheap set up you could get a ebay t3 or t25 mani and get an adapter made up then run a ctapp tune and get a custom testpipe/downpipe made up and good to go (obviously it wouldnt be THAT easy but it would most likely be cheaper than a full garret set up)

[djwimbo]

I'm willing to bet you could easily run a 28rs or 71 file on a 16g with minimal tweaks to account for the slightly slower lag and you could put close to 300awhp down....

I swear I have seen t3>mitsu flange adapters or maybe it was vise versa but I know the flanges are very similar in size, I bet for a super cheap set up you could get a ebay t3 or t25 mani and get an adapter made up then run a ctapp tune and get a custom testpipe/downpipe made up and good to go (obviously it wouldnt be THAT easy but it would most likely be cheaper than a full garret set up)

Find me a more reliable 100% new turbo kit than the Eliminator kits for VAG 1.8T's.

You could use the T25 turbo off the 1G's (IIRC that's the DSM they were on), but you're not going to get much power out of it.

Honestly, if it were as practical as what you're thinking, somebody would have come out with a kit or install guide on it. I know one dude did a big 16G, but he's doing it on almost zero budget. Last I knew he was having issues anyways.

[Tifun]

Find me a more reliable 100% new turbo kit than the Eliminator kits for VAG 1.8T's.

APR stg3. I have over 100,000 miles on my kit no issues related to the kit.

[mike-2ptzero]

I'm willing to bet you could easily run a 28rs or 71 file on a 16g with minimal tweaks to account for the slightly slower lag and you could put close to 300awhp down....

I swear I have seen t3>mitsu flange adapters or maybe it was vise versa but I know the flanges are very similar in size, I bet for a super cheap set up you could get a ebay t3 or t25 mani and get an adapter made up then run a ctapp tune and get a custom testpipe/downpipe made up and good to go (obviously it wouldnt be THAT easy but it would most likely be cheaper than a full garret set up)

You are talking old DSM turbo not EVO. Even then your talking about a round outlet vs a rectangle outlet. Thats like putting a round peg into a square hole.

DSM


T3


T4


EVO

[AElucky83]

260330194270 <- 16G,18G or 20g to T3 Manifold and vice versa manifold flanges $55 shippped..made out of 1/2 inch mild steel CNC machined..i dont know the quality of this but thats what it is..



This is an adapter for using a standard Garret T25 turbo such as the GT28RS and TD04-H on a Mitsubishi turbo header, or a mitsubishi turbo on a Garrett T25 header. Fits DSM flange (1g/2g DSM 4G63) T18, 14B, 16G, 18G, 20G, EVO Big 16 turbo's. Easily identified by the 2.150" round hole flange. This adapter was CNC milled, ballmill contoured, designed with CAD/CAM to allow a smooth transition from a mitsubishi based manifold or turbo header to a standard Garrett T25 turbocharger. Made from 1/2" thick mild steel, this flange is drilled and tapped M10 X 1.5mm on the 4 Mitsubishi bolt holes and M8 X 1.25mm on the Garrett T25 bolt holes. This is the perfect solution to upgrading from a Mitsubishi turbo to the much more powerful and pleantyful Garrett T25 turbocharger which offers many more options in the aftermarket business. Also used for adapting an inexpensive Mitsubishi turbo to a T25 header. Satisfaction garanteed. Please view my other auctions and visit www.MC-MOTORSPORTS.com Custom parts are available, questions comments or concerns, please email me at [email protected] Telephone support is available, please email for the phone number. Thanks, and happy bidding..... Michael

[djwimbo]

APR stg3. I have over 100,000 miles on my kit no issues related to the kit.

I don't even want to go into that one. I don't like APR, end of story. NTM I don't see any reason to call one more reliable than the other, other than the Elim turbos are oil/water cooled. IIRC since the APR Stg3 is based off the 28R, it's only oil cooled, I could be wrong though.

I wouldn't mind seeing the GTRS/GT71R elim dyno's laid over the APR #'s though.

Off topic: Speaking of divided, the HTA3076R you spoke of earlier is that some goofy form of a divided T3 or is that a T4 flanged 30 series?

[andernalin_junk]

o.k., i just got of the phone with my friend from Tig-Art.com
According to what he says it's a bit hard to make mani for the Evo 9 twin scroll turbo
becuse the runners has to go 1+4 >1 and 2+3 >1 and then to the collector
(we're talking of equal lenght top mount mani) and that one mani the he didn't do never
so becuse of that the mani + DP will cost around 1700-1800 $
now the question is if the Evo9 turbo is good enough to custom fabricate mani+ DP ?
my frien says that this turbo the boost will very liniar and not sharp, does anyone herd about it something ?

[NoTec]

You numbers aren't 100% accurate, but either way. I'd rather pay the $2850 for turbo, software + fueling parts from 034, and know that I have quality products a sound tune.

Maybe it's me and my priorities, and as much as I like to try something different than the next guy, I don't see myself running a 16G/20G. Ever.

Precision, Garrett, BorgWarner(Bullseye) and Forced Performance(HTA series) are pretty much what my choices would be limited to. That really depends on the application on output I want.

If everything was amazing stock we wouldn't modify cars. The Mitsu Turbos are stock, and people upgrade them, why settle for other people's trash?

I'm a believer in spending money to do it right the first time. ... That's also why I didn't buy the eliminator turbo. It would keep my happy for a season or two, but that's about it.

You're right about my numbers being off but thats besides the point.
You're able to get that complete solution from 034 because someone took the time to develop such a kit for the car.
80% of Evo owners have some form or another of an Evo turbo on their cars. Whether it be a 9, FP Green, or FP red. Evo turbos are damn good and reliable turbos.
It's all good that you want to "spend money to do it right the first time," but that wouldn't be possible if the product you wanted to purchase was undeveloped.

[NoTec]

But the GTRS is a bolt on, so you need to add another $1000 for a custom manifold that will bolt that EVO turbo to the A4 head. So exactly how does going with a EVO turbo make it cheaper?

Come on Mike. In order to get the most out of any of those eliminator kits, you aren't going to use the stock manifold from the 1.8t. Also, unless someone does begin to offer manifolds to allow the use of the Mitsu turbos on the 1.8t, the price will always be high because custom work would be a necessity. My argument was based on the premise that if a manifold were to be created and sold at a reasonable price, the investment would be worth wild. There is no doubt that the Garret, Borg Warner, and other turbos for these cars would also come down in price. When FP released reasonably priced units for Evo owners, other manufacturers had no choice but to lower prices.

[NoTec]

Find me a more reliable 100% new turbo kit than the Eliminator kits for VAG 1.8T's.
Honestly, if it were as practical as what you're thinking, somebody would have come out with a kit or install guide on it. I know one dude did a big 16G, but he's doing it on almost zero budget. Last I knew he was having issues anyways.

The last thing any of these current Audi tuning facilities would want is for some new reliable budget solution to arrive and put a dent in their pockets. They'll continue to make capitol dollar until someone arrives with a solution. Everyone has their own proprietary software and tuning solution. Every time you change the turbo, you need new software. I don't know. The options are extremely limited for these vehicles and it's a shame considering that the 1.8t has been available for ~12 years.

[NoTec]

o.k., i just got of the phone with my friend from Tig-Art.com
According to what he says it's a bit hard to make mani for the Evo 9 twin scroll turbo
becuse the runners has to go 1+4 >1 and 2+3 >1 and then to the collector
(we're talking of equal lenght top mount mani) and that one mani the he didn't do never
so becuse of that the mani + DP will cost around 1700-1800 $
now the question is if the Evo9 turbo is good enough to custom fabricate mani+ DP ?
my frien says that this turbo the boost will very liniar and not sharp, does anyone herd about it something ?

Sounds to me like it's not worth the money or your time. I honestly would look elsewhere. If the Evo 9 turbo was superior in every form to the Garret solutions, it still would not be worth the price. You may want to start looking for a different solution. However, if you do decide to go through with the Evo 16G, please post pictures and a review. Thanks and good luck.



Off-topic: Can someone let me know if there is a multi-quote feature available on this site?

[andernalin_junk]

this is exactly what i tought BUT he has (TIG ART)ready to install mani for my car
it turns out that he made a manifuld for A4 + TD0520G hybrid and that was installed in Greece





now i can have that equal lenght mani for a good price (~1K$) or the tubular for 400$ less btu not equal lenght
Ireally dont know what to do 20G or Evo9's or Garret
Garret are more expensive then the Evo's and the 20G
for the Evo's the mani would be more expensive

[NoTec]

this is exactly what i tought BUT he has (TIG ART)ready to install mani for my car
it turns out that he made a manifuld for A4 + TD0520G hybrid and that was installed in Greece .
now i can have that equal lenght mani for a good price (~1K$) or the tubular for 400$ less btu not equal lenght
Ireally dont know what to do 20G or Evo9's or Garret
Garret are more expensive then the Evo's and the 20G
for the Evo's the mani would be more expensive

Cost and headache wise, the Garret solutions would be easier for you. Also, don't forget that the Evo turbos have internal wastegates. In the pictures you posted above, that TD05 hotside has a big@ss external wastegate. So, it also looks as if the Evo's o2 housing will have to be either scrapped or modified to fit your application.
There isn't a lot of room in that location to make this an easy ordeal. Again, it's up to you how much you're willing to invest.

[docurley]

It's been done here in the UK on A3's and someone working on an A4 I will have to hunt the tread out but heres some info to start you off on.

http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/showthr...ight=ihi+turbo

http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/showthr...ight=ihi+turbo

Also read this on the subject

was going IHI, now going GT2871.
too many stories of turbo housings melting at 380+bhp figures

anyone want an IHI flange!?

those three bits for £100, bit steep but they are sooooo much better than some of teh sh1t out there.
laser cut, 10mm 304ss

got myself a TIG too, using that merge collector with a Tial Vband exhaust housing and the head flange

[NoTec]

The 1.8T will NOT outflow an Evo head, the AEB head is close, but still flows much less

You are indeed very correct. Sorry for the incorrect information. After confirming with my source, he told me the results he quoted were comparing a "ported" AEB head to a stock Evo 4g63 head. As it turns out, the "stock" AEB head was 10-20 CFM less than the "stock" 4g63 head @ 25"

[djwimbo]

... the results he quoted were comparing a "ported" AEB head to a stock Evo 4g63 head. As it turns out, the "stock" AEB head was 10-20 CFM less than the "stock" 4g63 head @ 25"

that's interesting.

As far as Evo turbo's go, who (DSM owners) hasn't considered putting a big 16G on? Came off the Evo III right, or was that the big O2housing? Either way, I know what you mean, I just don't think it would be worth the effort to pay for the custom manifold. Obviously both aftermarket turbos, we'll say a Garrett and the 16G, will need similar things like downpipe, oil lines, etc.

So what's the cost difference between the two?

$900 for an 034 Long tubular, or $460 for a SPA cast. Full Race is too pricey to compare in this case
+ $1200-1400 for a Garrett DBB GT2871(T3) or up to a GT3076
~$2100 and you can have yourself a manifold and turbo (with many options of OTS tuning) capable of >400awhp

$600 Forced Perf big 16G
>$1000 for a custom manifold.
~$1600 with zero OTS tuning avail. NTM the wastegate actuator would have to be removed for proper clocking or do some crazy boost routing.

I know you could use a "log style" manifold and make the cost even less, but we're comparing as close as we can. Given the SPA's current standings it's pretty damn reasonable for price and performance.

If you want to try it go for it, I'll help if I can, but I don't see the long term benefits.

[Tifun]

I don't even want to go into that one. I don't like APR, end of story. NTM I don't see any reason to call one more reliable than the other, other than the Elim turbos are oil/water cooled. IIRC since the APR Stg3 is based off the 28R, it's only oil cooled, I could be wrong though.

I would say that the manifold is a big factor as to why I say it's more reliable. The R&D is above most companies that offer kits, they use a very conservative tune that still gives you a lot of good usable power. A lot of companies followed them in this, they use high quality parts all around. There's a reason for their kit is exspensive. Many of those reasons are why this kit is on my car over other kits available. I think saying 100,000+ miles is something to say as well. I stand behind my statement that APR makes the most reliable. Now most powerful is a different category.
-Keith

[rogerius]

this is exactly what i tought BUT he has (TIG ART)ready to install mani for my car
it turns out that he made a manifuld for A4 + TD0520G hybrid and that was installed in Greece





now i can have that equal lenght mani for a good price (~1K$) or the tubular for 400$ less btu not equal lenght
Ireally dont know what to do 20G or Evo9's or Garret
Garret are more expensive then the Evo's and the 20G
for the Evo's the mani would be more expensive

heeeey, that is my car!!!!to Guy and Liran

[onemoremile]

Spa manifold T3 manifold with Garret or Bullseye turbo. You can go whatever way you want but this is proven, not too expensive, and the support group is there.