How much timing to add? (logs inside)

**biketsai** · 12-04-2008 06:22 PM

Well I adjusted it in Lemmiwinks-added 2% on one log and 4% on another, I just didnt know when to stop, so ill post these up.

+3.75 Deg

+2 Deg

**GetBoosted84** · 12-04-2008 09:10 PM

I'm guessing you replaced the primary o2 sensor that was failing right?

**biketsai** · 12-04-2008 09:19 PM

Nope. I put the stock housing back in for my MAF. I hit .82 lambda at 3800 rpm now.

**GetBoosted84** · 12-04-2008 09:22 PM

Really? That's not bad. I'll have to give that a whirl.

**GetBoosted84** · 12-04-2008 09:43 PM

I would be worried about having my timing retarded anything over 6 degrees during a WOT run. What does your timing look like without any timing adjustments? That's important to get a baseline of what you should be setting your timing to.

Here you should read this:
http://www.mjbmotorsport.com/datalog.html

**biketsai** · 12-04-2008 10:38 PM

Originally Posted by GetBoosted84

I would be worried about having my timing retarded anything over 6 degrees during a WOT run. What does your timing look like without any timing adjustments? That's important to get a baseline of what you should be setting your timing to.

Here you should read this:
http://www.mjbmotorsport.com/datalog.html

Wait, 6 degrees like anywhere? or just when I hit peak power?

At the moment, I have a stored code for running too rich (multiplicative), and my 032 readings are at -.03 and -25%.
Chris Ill send you my logs of my 003/031

**GetBoosted84** · 12-04-2008 10:41 PM

Over six degrees of retard under WOT is generally regarded as a bad thing. This seems to be the general consensus for a good safe tune.

Basically all the timing you are advancing is just getting pulled right back out again.

**biketsai** · 12-04-2008 10:49 PM

Originally Posted by GetBoosted84

Over six degrees of retard under WOT is generally regarded as a bad thing. This seems to be the general consensus for a good safe tune.

Basically all the timing you are advancing is just getting pulled right back out again.

Wierd, i wonder whats causing it to be pulled right out?
I sent you an email as well.

**Poopie** · 12-04-2008 10:58 PM

are you using the correct maf and housing combo? your timing pull is pretty bad. changing maf sensors and housings will change around your timing maps.

**biketsai** · 12-04-2008 10:59 PM

Originally Posted by Poopie

are you using the correct maf and housing combo? your timing pull is pretty bad. changing maf sensors and housings will change around your timing maps.

Well see thats the thing, i just switched to the stock MAF housing. I was running the Vr6 and what is what my tune is made for, however I am running 13.2:1 AFR during 3rd gear WOT until 4800k

Edit:
Chris, I was going over that link you just sent and it was describing lambda values saying how its alright to run around 13.1:1 till around 3600 and then hit 12:1 by redline or so, I mean how bad is it that I am hitting these lean values on the old vr6 housing?

**Poopie** · 12-04-2008 11:22 PM

your timing is all fucked up. i'm thinking its the tune or the maf combo.

you're not requesting much timing in the second log and its pulling pretty much all of it.
then in the first log it looks ok then bam it starts to pull timing, but your maf values are much lower. what are your knock sensors doing? maybe you got a little piston knock and your ecu is trying to protect the motor. how about EGT? intake temps?

**biketsai** · 12-04-2008 11:49 PM

Originally Posted by Poopie

your timing is all fucked up. i'm thinking its the tune or the maf combo.

you're not requesting much timing in the second log and its pulling pretty much all of it.
then in the first log it looks ok then bam it starts to pull timing, but your maf values are much lower. what are your knock sensors doing? maybe you got a little piston knock and your ecu is trying to protect the motor. how about EGT? intake temps?

If you would like to see my old logs (vr6 maf) id be more than happy to email you them.

**GetBoosted84** · 12-05-2008 06:28 AM

Originally Posted by biketsai

Chris, I was going over that link you just sent and it was describing lambda values saying how its alright to run around 13.1:1 till around 3600 and then hit 12:1 by redline or so, I mean how bad is it that I am hitting these lean values on the old vr6 housing?

From what I recall, you were getting lean until the mid to high 4k range right? That's no good.

13.x:1 before mid 3k isn't bad because it has to curve down into the 11:5 to 12:1 range and plus you aren't making boost down that low anyway so that is cool.

**t1demont1** · 12-05-2008 08:38 AM

youll be lean until boost comes in. 12:1 is a little lean but you might just have a leak after maf before the turbo causing the lean issue. stick to the vr6 housing if that is what your tune is for. have you run any fuel system cleaner? youd be suprised what that can do. this 10% ethonol shit gunks up fuel systems since our cars werent ment to run ethonol

**Audi Skate Snow** · 12-05-2008 09:00 AM

log block 20 and see what the CF's are. you dont want them to go beyond 6, however that might even being pushing it, i would try and get them right around 3-4 at the most.

So log that block, see what the CF's are going to and then retard or advance accordingly, and just do like 1 degrees at a time to be safe.

**biketsai** · 12-05-2008 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by Audi Skate Snow

log block 20 and see what the CF's are. you dont want them to go beyond 6, however that might even being pushing it, i would try and get them right around 3-4 at the most.

So log that block, see what the CF's are going to and then retard or advance accordingly, and just do like 1 degrees at a time to be safe.

My logs are posted above.
I'm running 13.2:1 on the vr6 housing on 3rd WOT till 4800

**biketsai** · 12-05-2008 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by t1demont1

youll be lean until boost comes in. 12:1 is a little lean but you might just have a leak after maf before the turbo causing the lean issue. stick to the vr6 housing if that is what your tune is for. have you run any fuel system cleaner? youd be suprised what that can do. this 10% ethonol shit gunks up fuel systems since our cars werent ment to run ethonol

What kind of fuel cleaner? Like seafoam into the gas tank before a fill up?

On the VR6 MAF housing- the lambda would be .9 until 4800, and I would hit full boost at 5200 where the lambda would get to .78.
On the Stock MAF housing-the lambda is at .83 by 3700.

I figured that the stock maf housing yielded better results so I kept that in there and decided just to add some timing.
Now i am COMPLETELY confused lol.

**GetBoosted84** · 12-05-2008 04:33 PM

Why your setup is not boosting closer to 3.6 to 3.7k RPM still baffles me. With that turbo you should hit full boost before 4k on a bad day.

**biketsai** · 12-05-2008 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by GetBoosted84

Why your setup is not boosting closer to 3.6 to 3.7k RPM still baffles me. With that turbo you should hit full boost before 4k on a bad day.

I know it sucks.
Do you think my 2.5" intercooler piping could cause that LATE of a spool.

**Poopie** · 12-05-2008 04:58 PM

nope. perhaps a bad wastegate or a ruined wastegate flapper.

**GetBoosted84** · 12-05-2008 05:01 PM

My piping is either 2 1/4" or 2 1/2" and I don't have that issue. I'm with poopie on the wastegate being a likely suspect. Or you're running a hacked up k04 file but even then it should still spool sooner than 5k I would think.

**biketsai** · 12-05-2008 05:05 PM

Can you explain the wastegate thing? I havent learned everything about wastegate things yet. I know that its internally wastegated though

**GetBoosted84** · 12-05-2008 05:15 PM

A little while ago I was not hitting boost till low to mid 4k and I yanked my wastegate (external) and found the reason. I had a small fleck of metal between the piston and the fire ring that was keeping the wastegate open and not allowing me to build boost quickly.

I yanked out the piece of metal and problem solved. Well that and I removed those stupid gaskets that they give you with your wastegate since two of them failed which was not helping my late spool. Should have listed to poopie and bassed when we did my install :-).

You have an interal one though so you have a small flapper that is opened based on the amount of boost the actuator sees. If that is messed up or sticking open it will not function properly. Gotta pull the downpipe to check it though.

**biketsai** · 12-05-2008 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by GetBoosted84

A little while ago I was not hitting boost till low to mid 4k and I yanked my wastegate (external) and found the reason. I had a small fleck of metal between the piston and the fire ring that was keeping the wastegate open and not allowing me to build boost quickly.

I yanked out the piece of metal and problem solved. Well that and I removed those stupid gaskets that they give you with your wastegate since two of them failed which was not helping my late spool. Should have listed to poopie and bassed when we did my install :-).

You have an interal one though so you have a small flapper that is opened based on the amount of boost the actuator sees. If that is messed up or sticking open it will not function properly. Gotta pull the downpipe to check it though.

How can I check it? I can prob pull the testpipe off in like 5 minutes

**mike-2ptzero** · 12-05-2008 05:25 PM

Originally Posted by Poopie

are you using the correct maf and housing combo? your timing pull is pretty bad. changing maf sensors and housings will change around your timing maps.

Actual with no timing added and his stock maf housing he saw very little timing CF readings, this is why he is trying to add some timing so the turbo spools up. Problem with the larger maf housing is that his AFR was very lean but yet still saw no timing CF.

Well just found out why his CF readings jump up so quickly, he also bumped up the boost and thats why the CF readings get too high in the higher rpms.

**biketsai** · 12-06-2008 01:49 AM

would my n75 cause anything?
I have it only connected electrically with the 2 corresponding vac hoses from the turbo on the MBC.

**mike-2ptzero** · 12-06-2008 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by biketsai

would my n75 cause anything?
I have it only connected electrically with the 2 corresponding vac hoses from the turbo on the MBC.

No. But I did notice that on your newest logs that you just emailed me that you are now getting throttle cut/closing. It might be caused by maxing out the maf since you are now running 18psi, throttle closing seems to happen after you run a gear out and then shift to the next gear.

**biketsai** · 12-06-2008 10:34 AM

Yea I just read your email Mike. I can't believe this is still happening, it's getting pretty confusing. So it seems like I'm gonna have to ditch the stock maf route?

**mike-2ptzero** · 12-06-2008 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by biketsai

Yea I just read your email Mike. I can't believe this is still happening, it's getting pretty confusing. So it seems like I'm gonna have to ditch the stock maf route?

You need to either talk to PES and tell them that you are having a issue with the tuning or just ditch it completely seeing that your having nothing but issues.

Right now, its either run low boost and have a good AFR with the stock maf housing or running high boost and lean issue with the larger maf.

Only other option is to try making a maf that is sized between those 2, but that might just cause more issues.

**biketsai** · 12-06-2008 12:43 PM

I'm gonna try that diode today. If that doesn't work, what do I need to tell PES to do to my tune?

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