Whoa is me...fuel pump relay? cam position sensors?

[lassy]

Ok guys, here's the situ:

1998 A4 Quattro 2.8 30 Valve V6 with approx. 120XXX miles. A couple weeks ago I started to notice the car not firing immediately on the first crank. No problem, it always fired up second or third crank. The car runs perfect otherwise with NO CELs. One day I went to crank it up and it didn't start up after two or three cranks. Finally it started up and ran fine all the way home.
I went to move the car later that evening and it wouldn't start. It would turn over fine, sounded normal, but wouldn't fire off and run. Since then, it hasn't started up but still cranks over fine.

I've done the following:

-Reconditioned and charged battery
-Listened for fuel pump activation but I can't hear it (I don't know how
audible the audi fuel pump is???? i have never been able to hear it before
now and i've listened for it when it was running fine)
-Tried to read codes with handheld OBD II but I keep getting a "NO LINK"
message on this particular unit.
-Pulled fuses 28, 29, 34 and checked voltage across terminals and I want
to say that maybe 28 and 34 registered very little to no voltage (I think
these are the 1 and 2 cam sensors) and then 29 is the FP relay which
measured around 12V.
-Pulled the 372 relay which I think is the FP relay and measured voltage
across terminal 17 to ground: 12V
-Pulled Cam Position Sensor 1 and measured voltage across terminal 1 and 3
of plug, measured around 3V
-TRYING TO GET TO Cam Position Sensor 2 but cannot reach it.

What should I do next? I'd like to check the second cam sensor, but I don't know how I'm going to get down to it. It's below this reservoir seen in the pictures with HELLA on the top.

Also, I'm confused about the code of my engine. I thought it was AHA, as I saw that code on an intake duct, and I thought that's what it was according to the Bentley service manual, but the pictorials related to the fuel pump relay match up to the ATQ engine, which I thought was 2001 and on. Some one help me out PLEASE!

[cparke]

The fuel pump probably didn't change between AHA and ATQ, so that's why you're seeing the same schematic in Bentley.

The best way to test the fuel pump relay is using VAG-COM/VCDS to put the ECU into Output Diagnostic mode. The first thing that does is turn on the fuel pump without the engine running. It is much easier to hear the pump and the relay that way, and you can also hear and feel the fuel moving through the fuel lines and the fuel rail piping. An OBD-II scan tool can't do this, only a VAG scan tool can.

If the fuel pump doesn't run, it is either the pump itself or the relay. You might want to try pulling the electical plug to the fuel pump's cap under the carpet in the trunk in the and powering it up directly from another power source, but be extremely careful because there probably are some gas fumes escaping the gasket which a small spark could ignite, so I'd rig up a whole wiring scheme so that you switch the power on from outside the car (same thing goes if you want to instead check the power to the pump from the relay instead---don't go touching any live electrical terminal contacts/probes right above the gas tank!).

If you need the fuel pump removal tool to change the fuel pump (which I highly recommend using because the pump is in there too tight and too deep to do it by hand), I have one you could borrow for a small fee and a deposit.

BTW - what does the camshaft position sensor have to do with this? You don't have the remove the cruise control diaphram to get at the bank 2 camshaft position sensor---you just have move the coolant expansion tank and the oil breather line from bank 2, then there are two simple bolts and after it is loose you can unplug it. The sensor is entirely a magnetic sensor. There is another camshaft position sensor on bank 1 too under the timing belt cover, which you already looked at.

[lassy]

Oh man, I forgot a very important piece of information:

No spark when I checked spark plugs!!

[cparke]

How did you determine that?

[lassy]

How did you determine that?

pulled a plug, grounded it on the block and had someone crank the car

[cparke]

Well then, you're going to have to decide whether you think your problem is in ignition or fuel delivery or both.

The Bentley manual gives you the wiring tests to see if the ignition coil is getting proper firing signals from the ECU. If it is, and it really isn't sparking (there are inline spark indicators to test that easier and safer without removing the plug), then I guess your coilpack just went dead?

BTW - Is that little extra wire with black box module properly connected to the bolt on the coil's grounding housing?

[lassy]

I called APR and they suggested checking the coils as you say to do. Also said something about checking to make sure they're getting a pulse. I'll see if I can't get that checked tonight and check back in here afterwards.

[lassy]

so it was the ignition switch....too bad i couldn't have figured that out. now i have to pay for it from the shop...ouch

[cparke]

so it was the ignition switch....too bad i couldn't have figured that out. now i have to pay for it from the shop...ouch

You mean to say the starter turned the crank just fine, and the electrical signals for the camshaft position sensor 1 was present, yet still there was something wrong with your ignition switch? Did the instrument cluster light up with the key in ON position? Sorry, I just don't get it.

[Don Supreme]

so it was the ignition switch....too bad i couldn't have figured that out. now i have to pay for it from the shop...ouch

When you turned the key, did you just hear a Click and no crank or did it crank, but not start?

[lassy]

When you turned the key, did you just hear a Click and no crank or did it crank, but not start?

no, it would crank fine but wouldn't start.

You mean to say the starter turned the crank just fine, and the electrical signals for the camshaft position sensor 1 was present, yet still there was something wrong with your ignition switch? Did the instrument cluster light up with the key in ON position? Sorry, I just don't get it.

yes to the first question. apparently the mechanic noticed something funny about the instrument display when he tried to crank it. i don't remember seeing anything odd when i was troubleshooting it myself.

it may have been one of those things where i wasn't paying close enough attention because i was too busy listening for the fuel pump or fuel pump relay or whatever else may have had my attention when i was trying to start it.

apparently when they hooked it up to the proper diagnostics computer it gave them the info to check the switch and whola, that was the problem.
sucks living in a town without a lot of other audis, i have to take it to the shop for tricky things like this.

[lassy]

So this is interesting, before the fix, when I hooked up the OBD II diagnostics computer, it gave me a message of NO LINK. After the ignition switch was replaced, I hooked the unit back up and it scanned properly and gave me a message of 0 codes present.

Maybe this will help someone else down the line.

[TROLL]

Hey,
I have a similar situation except that I can link an obd2 scanner up, but it says no codes. Do you have any idea what displayed on the dash when cranking? How much was the ignition switch and where did you buy it? You had a shop do it so you dont know what was involved in the install I guess?
Thanks...

[lassy]

if i remember correctly, all of the various lights (different colors that are circular in shape in the speedometer gage) didn't light up, just the battery light i think.

i had to take it to a shop to get it diagnosed. they charged me like $70 for the switch i think. they got it from the VW dealer probably. i think you just drop the panel under the steering wheel and swap it out. i'm not positive how hard it is to swap out, i know it didn't take them long to do it.