I think my timing jumped... need help ASAP

[ThePaintballGuy]

Ok, So i FINALLY got my audi back together but once i put the timing belt back on it looks like the passenger side cam gear is off by one tooth but I don't know for sure. THere is no markings to line it up so i have no way of knowing. However the drivers side looks right because the place where you put the cam gear holder thing are straight across while the passenger side gear is not. Here are pictures showing what it looks like. Any ideas???

here you can see both gears. Notice how the one on the left is not straight.


Closeup of the one on the left.


Any help would be great. I am trying to get it back together ASAP.

Thanks

Josh

[Dr. Jekyll]

You don't have a cam bar? Or a crank lock pin? You should probably get them and do the timing belt properly. And by properly, I mean popping the sprokets with the cam bar in place and properly tensioning the belt.

And if you haven't done it... while you're in there, you should probably just get a whole new timing belt kit from vast. Especially if your belt jumped a tooth. I wouldn't chance it. Then do a compression test to make sure your valves aren't bent.

[JDM EJ1 95]

You don't have a cam bar? Or a crank lock pin? You should probably get them and do the timing belt properly. And by properly, I mean popping the sprokets with the cam bar in place and properly tensioning the belt.

And if you haven't done it... while you're in there, you should probably just get a whole new timing belt kit from vast. Especially if your belt jumped a tooth. I wouldn't chance it. Then do a leakdowntest to make sure your valves aren't bent.

fixed

[AudiA4_20T]

on the S4 motors, if it jumps 1 tooth, does it bend valves? Because on the 1.8T you can give or take 1 tooth and be ok with the valves itll just throw a code. Anyway, you can pull the valve covers off and look at the cam marks... there is a mark there to check tdc

[ThePaintballGuy]

I know i didn't bend valves. The engine still ran when it broke down so I know it's fine. The crank is in the right position as well. I just need to know if the thing is straight across or not.

Josh

[ThePaintballGuy]

Oh and the timing belt kit is brand new btw.

Josh

[ThePaintballGuy]

You may not have heard about why this whole thing happened or not. Here is the original thread about it.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ing+belt+broke

Josh

[Matt Danger]

How did you install the new belt? Did you pop the cam sprockets off to get them loose so you could set the new belt correctly or did you just take off the old belt and slap on the new one?

You really should use the cam lock bar to do the timing belt, it guarantees that the cams are properly timed. The crank lock pin is very helpful also but not as vital as the lock bar. The sprockets need to be popped off so they can be rotated to get everything nice and perfectly aligned.

[ThePaintballGuy]

What happened was the timing belt tensioner pulley broke (or the bolt holding it in did) so i just took the pulley off and everything infront of it off and the belt just comes right out. When you say I need to take the sprocket off which one are you talking about? The cam sprockets? Why would I need to take that off? The only thing I need to do is get the passenger side cam lined up.

Josh

[Matt Danger]

When you say I need to take the sprocket off which one are you talking about? The cam sprockets? Why would I need to take that off? The only thing I need to do is get the passenger side cam lined up.

Yes, the cam sprockets. Instead of saying "popping them off" I should have said "popping them loose." It makes installing and properly tensioning the new belt very easy. You loosen the bolt a few turns, use a 2 or 4 point gear puller and pull the sprocket off. It takes a lot of force and be careful not to damage the sprockets with the puller. The sprockets will "pop" off violently. Do this for both cams. Now the sprockets will rotate smoothly.

Use the lock bar to align and time both cam shafts, put the new belt on and then release tension and preload tension damper by pulling the piston up with an allen key. You'll see the sprockets rotate slightly as the belt tightens up. Now you can tighten and properly torque the bolts for the cam sprockets. The cam shaft has a conical end so when you tighten the bolt the sprocket will become fixed.

Edit: Picture of cam lock bar in action. You can rent these from a lot of vendors or perhaps there is someone near you who will let you borrow theirs.

[GetAwayFromMe]

From the looks of it it does look like it's a tooth off. since you dont have a cam tool just make your own with some strong metal wire. The thing is you want the holes on the gear to line up, you can also use a laser type tool that will tel you that it's straight.

[ThePaintballGuy]

From the looks of it it does look like it's a tooth off. since you dont have a cam tool just make your own with some strong metal wire. The thing is you want the holes on the gear to line up, you can also use a laser type tool that will tel you that it's straight.

THANK YOU!!! Finally someone who answered my question. LOL

I never thought of using a laser level... I will go try that. Thanks again.

P.S. Matt I called someone who has one and he won't let me borrow it. Here in Spokane there are not many places that have these tools. HAHA

josh

[gointoscott]

I woudlnt put it back together until you know for certain it is right. It cant be off by even 1 tooth.

I think Blauparts.com will rent or lend out the bar you need to set the timing. If you bought the timing kit from them I'm pretty sure they will send it to you and you can use the kit to use to set the timing right, then you can send it back. I know the mechanic there personally and he does all kind of timing belt jobs on our cars, you can at least call them and I'm sure he'll answer any questions you have regarding how to set the timing, you can ask for Jim the owner or Huri his son is the one who does the timing belt jobs. They will not be open until Monday though.


I know you want it back together asap, but timing is one of the last things you want to hurry back together, if done wrong it will cost you thousands if it interfere's and you will have to pull the heads... you probably know all that already.

Hope the best for you man

[GetAwayFromMe]

If you dont mind waithing few days to get it.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/VW-AU...motiveQ5fTools

I bought my from eBay "not this seller" and got it in 3 days, it's nice to have just in case you need to put it in service position.

[code7rpd]

I have a question on the cam lock bar and changing the cam seals. I need to replace my timing belt and associated components so if I attach the cam lock bar I can pop the sprockets loose and remove the sprockets and the belt correct? Then I change the seals, put the sprockets back on , finger tighten the cam sprockets, install the new belt and tensioner, and then adjust the tension with the sporckets still loose correct. Once the belt is tensioned I then tighten the cam sprockets? Is that the proper procedure?

I have my engine out for a stage 3 swap and have been having trouble getting info on replacing the cam seals. Thanks for any help you guys can provide.

[GetAwayFromMe]

You have to completly remove the sprockets to do the cam seals but just to do the belt no you dont. You just need to pop them to get them loose so they can spin while you tension the belt.

When you get the belt off one of the cam gears might move but dont wory about it, just move them back same direction and pop the cam tool on so you can time it than put the belt on. The sprockets still need to be able to spin, when you get the belt tensioned than you tighten the sprocket bolts. Make sure you set the crank on the dot and use the cam lock also.

I did t-belt jobs without these tools many times but having them makes it so much easier.

[S4 in_lowplaces]

on the S4 motors, if it jumps 1 tooth, does it bend valves? Because on the 1.8T you can give or take 1 tooth and be ok with the valves itll just throw a code. Anyway, you can pull the valve covers off and look at the cam marks... there is a mark there to check tdc

Paintball. I agree that the above is probably the easiest way to check if timing is on. When i did mine i had a rough time getting it right but i ended up getting it right. I was off just like you but i was able to put the cam bar on and turn it a little and get it hooked up to the other sproket. Once you get this make sure you turn the crank by hand over a few times to make sure everything sounds good.

And yes you are correct. Being one tooth off on the S4 will not bend valves.

[gointoscott]

Paintball. I agree that the above is probably the easiest way to check if timing is on. When i did mine i had a rough time getting it right but i ended up getting it right. I was off just like you but i was able to put the cam bar on and turn it a little and get it hooked up to the other sproket. Once you get this make sure you turn the crank by hand over a few times to make sure everything sounds good.

And yes you are correct. Being one tooth off on the S4 will not bend valves.

But you will not want it off by 1 tooth because it will run like crap correct? So why even bother leaving it off by 1 tooth because you will probably have to take it all apart and get it correct anyway right?

At least thats the way I look at it.

[ThePaintballGuy]

Ok, i got it timed correctly using the laser level. everything lines up perfectly and I hand turned the crank a few times after the belt was back on and ieverything sounds good. No metal on metal noises or anything like that. I can't put it the rest of the way together yet though because one of the bolts for the crank pulley got stripped (the head not the threads) and i need a new one from the dealership (can't find one anywhere else).

josh

[S4 in_lowplaces]

But you will not want it off by 1 tooth because it will run like crap correct? So why even bother leaving it off by 1 tooth because you will probably have to take it all apart and get it correct anyway right?

At least thats the way I look at it.

Yes. I wasent saying he should drive it like that. I'm just saying it wont bend valves.

[S4 in_lowplaces]

Ok, i got it timed correctly using the laser level. everything lines up perfectly and I hand turned the crank a few times after the belt was back on and ieverything sounds good. No metal on metal noises or anything like that. I can't put it the rest of the way together yet though because one of the bolts for the crank pulley got stripped (the head not the threads) and i need a new one from the dealership (can't find one anywhere else).

josh

nice.

Dealer will have it. same happened to me and i got it from the dealer. its cheap

[ThePaintballGuy]

Thanks for the help guys. Much appreciated.

josh

[code7rpd]

Thanks! Very helpful information! I'll be taking care of my cam seals tomorrow.