Did you guys see this about the PES S/C?

[JB_ImolaS4]

Credit to RoadSportS4Avant on AW.

BTW, what did PSI is VF aiming for on the release kit?

http://www.pes-tuning.com/g4_newsletter_11_25_08.html

[Swanky]

capitalism at its finest

[JB_ImolaS4]

LOL... noticed they're trying to come in at about $1K less. Funny, though, they're saying the stage 2.0239 kit should make somewhere between 447 bhp and 481 bhp (30-40% power increase; I'm assuming they meant to the crank) whereas the VF kit at WF supposedly had 496 bhp. I know the PES kit has a bogey of 8 PSI, and I thought VF's production kit was supposed to be 6.5 PSI. Wonder what's driving the difference in power figures (no dyno yet, different IC, tuning, etc.).

[whartung]

whats driving the difference is estimation. When the actual unit comes out then we'll know for certain, and if there is in fact a difference, then we should be curious

[ngng]

I'm interstedin the PES kit, I've heard that the VF kit has problems on other cards keeping the belt at the correct tension

[JB_ImolaS4]

whats driving the difference is estimation. When the actual unit comes out then we'll know for certain, and if there is in fact a difference, then we should be curious

They probably want to set the bar low. Better than over-promising and under-delivering

[Justincredible]

I think this is just what we need. This kit should bring competition out and bring a better product to market.

This is not meant to be a spoiler BUT Im I the only one that thinks PES is full of SH1t here. Look l think they will have a supercharger and I like the excitement they are bringing. BUT they don't have a pic of the actual supercharger they have a pic of the CAD drawing of the supercharger and unless I read it wrong they said this was already on cars? Then where is the pic of this? The CAD drawing is great and looks good. But there is a chance. IM NOT SAYING THIS IS HAPPENING but it looks like there is a chance that they want people to pre order to fund finishing the project. At this point I don't see why they don't have actual pic's of this on a car. there is no actual proof that this has even been made.

This in no way is meant to represent that when it is or even if it is that this system wont be great. I just find it odd that with all the claims they have you would think that there would have to be some cars that are running and why wouldn't you put video or pix of this out there. We know they can build a supercharger kit. But this kit has been in production for about 3 years. At this point we have seen a kit from APR we know there is a kit from VF but even VF is continuing there testing and verification. The APR kit obviously needed to be looked at so with all the issues that people are messing with I would just think there might be more to the PES story then we know. Im not even considering looking at my check book for the VF kit till I see some solid 1/4 mile runs. FOR ME there is no way Im going to even THINK about this till I see a running car and an actual supercharger not a DRAWING.

The price is low enought to possibly get people to jump in but. Im holding PES to the same standards I do VF no proof of 1/4 mile performance no shot at my money even if they are selling it for cheaper. LETS START with some actual pix then they In my book can start talking to us about this.

NO facts here just My thoughts

[JB_ImolaS4]

I think this is just what we need. This kit should bring competition out and bring a better product to market.

This is not meant to be a spoiler BUT Im I the only one that thinks PES is full of SH1t here. Look l think they will have a supercharger and I like the excitement they are bringing. BUT they don't have a pic of the actual supercharger they have a pic of the CAD drawing of the supercharger and unless I read it wrong they said this was already on cars? Then where is the pic of this? The CAD drawing is great and looks good. But there is a chance. IM NOT SAYING THIS IS HAPPENING but it looks like there is a chance that they want people to pre order to fund finishing the project. At this point I don't see why they don't have actual pic's of this on a car. there is no actual proof that this has even been made.

This in no way is meant to represent that when it is or even if it is that this system wont be great. I just find it odd that with all the claims they have you would think that there would have to be some cars that are running and why wouldn't you put video or pix of this out there. We know they can build a supercharger kit. But this kit has been in production for about 3 years. At this point we have seen a kit from APR we know there is a kit from VF but even VF is continuing there testing and verification. The APR kit obviously needed to be looked at so with all the issues that people are messing with I would just think there might be more to the PES story then we know. Im not even considering looking at my check book for the VF kit till I see some solid 1/4 mile runs. FOR ME there is no way Im going to even THINK about this till I see a running car and an actual supercharger not a DRAWING.

The price is low enought to possibly get people to jump in but. Im holding PES to the same standards I do VF no proof of 1/4 mile performance no shot at my money even if they are selling it for cheaper. LETS START with some actual pix then they In my book can start talking to us about this.

NO facts here just My thoughts

Good points. I speak from my engineering experience that the S/C schematic they showed could be generated in a day's work using SolidWorks. Not saying that they did that, just adding to the argument that sketches are not enough. They're not helping their case by not providing the same level of transparency that VF has given us (granted, there are are many questions left unanswered with their kit as well).

With that said--I'm hopeful that the kit does come out, and that the competition inspires both VF and PES to strive for increased quality control, customer service, and, of course, price competition.

[ieatfishburitos]

This is great news. Competition is a good thing.

[Justincredible]

Good points. I speak from my engineering experience that the S/C schematic they showed could be generated in a day's work using SolidWorks. Not saying that they did that, just adding to the argument that sketches are not enough. They're not helping their case by not providing the same level of transparency that VF has given us (granted, there are are many questions left unanswered with their kit as well).

With that said--I'm hopeful that the kit does come out, and that the competition inspires both VF and PES to strive for increased quality control, customer service, and, of course, price competition.

Exactly I am sure they can make it and Im sure they will make it. Thanks for the input on how quick this could be made (I had no clue on stuff like that)

I think there are MANY MANY questions left.

I REALLY have issue with the fact that they are asking for money before the kits have been shown on a car at all. Let alone show that there product works. They MIGHT know it works they MIGHT have it on a car But they might not.....

At the price they are asking they seem to be banking on the fact that people would jump in due to the price.
"with world wide interest" you would think you could show more then a CAD drawing to me. Not only that but if they don't know it fits a 2004-2007 S4 just by standard knowledge this just seems not good for someone that wants to put a potential BOMB on your car.

Look I know I am being harsh. But thanks to VF they showed pix, vid footage before they even let anyone pre order or become part of the testing. Claiming there is world wide interest while claiming that this is on the in house S4 you would think if it was so great they would have pic's of it on the car and Video of there car driving. It had to talk longer to get the CAD image converted to Jpeg then it would have to post up a pic of the car with the supercharger

Looks great in CAD sounds great in theory. Just think it is a bit ambitious asking for 3500$ and not show anyone a working unit or even a unit on a car.....Just food for thought

And again Im not bashing the product. It looks, great priced where it should be. But At least for me. They are way out of touch with reality if they think IM going to send money with nothing more then CAD drawings and word of mouth info about what it should make.

Thanks PES but come on

[Swanky]

the point of making a "supercharger kit" is so that the end users can benefit from economies of scale... and subsequently the lower retail price for the buyer allows the seller to sell higher quantities and maximize their profits. so far, each one of the proposed "supercharger kits" from the different retailers that are "designed specifically for your audi 4.2L application" are priced inappropriately. the pricing represents one-off installations... that being the case there is no benefit to paying a premium for one of these kits. don't try and tell me that all of the "testing" that is performed warrants the excessive pricing either. go to your local shop that you have a good rapport with and mount your own supercharger. the W245AX as referenced here is a great place to start for an extremely high end twin screw.

[JB_ImolaS4]

Plus, if they're making the kit for the S4, S8, A6, Q7, etc, I wonder how much time they spent fine-tuning the set-up for the different applications. My guess is they didn't put a lot of time into making the kits fully modular.

[UberDave]

It could be as simple as not wanting to post pictures of a fugly developmental unit... PES hasn't always had the best customer service and yes, there were problems with the G3 but I don't think they would have released this info if they weren't close to putting beta kits on cars... As far as taking deposits I don't have a problem with that either, it might make the difference between whether they should order a production run of 25 or 100 units, the larger number could save them big $$ which they will pass along to those who are willing to kick in their $$ up front.

Anyway, I agree that this is a great thing, and I really appreciate the stage 1 - stage 2 approach that will let us get into a kit for less initial $$ and upgrade later. That's very cool.

[bjs]

No love for the 4.2l in the RS4 though. is VF's kit gonna support the RS4 or so far just MTM?

[UberDave]

PES says the RS4 is up next, and VF is working on it as well.

http://scaudi.com/sc/index.php?showtopic=4422

[bjs]

Cool thanks for that. :)

Looking into getting an RS4 and if I can get some FI, that'd be a deal sealer with me!

[vinny.dtw]

Honestly would you trust PES with their superchargers and tuning. After numerous people have already blown their b6's 3.0's, or b5 2.8's with the G2's and 3's... Meh, I'd stick with a more reputable company when it comes to force induction.

[UberDave]

Honestly would you trust PES with their superchargers and tuning. After numerous people have already blown their b6's 3.0's, or b5 2.8's with the G2's and 3's... Meh, I'd stick with a more reputable company when it comes to force induction.

The G2s were pretty bulletproof, the only problems with those that I know about happened because smaller pulleys were put on by teh owners... I agree with your concern though, the problems with the G3 happened because they used their "in house" tuning instead of GIAC like they did for the G1 and G2, and apparently they will handle the tuning in house for the G4 as well.

[Dodge2Dub]

What about running 8 psi on our engines? That seems a bit high for a high compression N/A motor. Anyone have experience with running above 6 psi on an N/A engine with a high compression? Also, is an intercooler and heat exchanger enough to keep the temps at appropriate and safe levels in warmer climates (like NV and SoCal)?

[iconoclast]

capitalism at its finest

first one to market may take majority of the market share... eg: ipod vs. zune.

[drew]

What about running 8 psi on our engines? That seems a bit high for a high compression N/A motor. Anyone have experience with running above 6 psi on an N/A engine with a high compression? Also, is an intercooler and heat exchanger enough to keep the temps at appropriate and safe levels in warmer climates (like NV and SoCal)?

VF engineering runs 8 PSI on the e46 m3 s54 engine 11.5 compression