VF-Engineering B7 2.0T Air/Water Chargecooler Upgrade development!

[Delius@VF]

Development for our high efficiency Air-to-Water aftercooling system is well under way and we are about to fire up our first test vehicle. We have used air/water cooling for for consistent aftercooling on high compression and high power 500hp+ forced induction systems.

below> Out with the skinny factory dual side mounts air-to-air intercoolers


below> Here we have dropped our stout air/water bar and plate heat exchanger. It fits on the OEM hangers with no alterations.



below> Here is the water tanks that mounts on the OEM hangers and the pressure pipe that fits betweent he OEM boost hoses. It also retains the boost sensor.



below> And for the grand finale > our Porsche OEM front water radiator for optimum heat dissipation. No bumper cutting required. Also used on our S4 / RS4 / E46M3 / Porsche 997



Temp logs on stock and GT2871 turbo upgrades to follow.
Prices and availability will be posted shortly also.
Tomorrow we will be installing our first production GT2871 kit on this car with new thread to follow.

[AudiWxGuy]

Is this like a smaller version of an FMIC?

[Auditude2.0T]

i think it works differently then a conventional FMIC or SMIC. not exactly sure though.

[viperdsa]

There are two basic types of intercooler available, air/air intercoolers and air/water intercoolers which are often called "charge" coolers. Whereas the air/air intercooler uses the air directly hitting the intercooler to cool the charge air, the charge air in a water/air intercooler uses water to cool the charge air. This water is pumped through a circuit which contains a radiator which keeps the water cool.

The basic differences between the two types of intercooler, from an installation and design point of view are as follows. The air/air intercooler is far less complicated from a plumbing point of view and is generally more efficient at high speeds. The water/air intercooler's plumbing is more complex due to the fact that there are two circuits to install, one for the water and one for the charge air. Although an air/air intercooler is generally more efficient at high speeds than a water/air intercooler. A water/air intercooler generally offers superior charge air cooling at low speeds compared to the air/air intercooler.

Air/water intercoolers also offer additional benefits over the air/air intercooler, the first is the fact that they are generally smaller which makes their installation easier when space is restricted and they also experience less lag than front mounted air/air intercoolers as the path from the turbo outlet to the inlet manifold can be much shorter than an air/air front mounted intercooler.

As the air/water intercooler contains an extra circuit for circulating the water these systems are more expensive due to the fact that there is extra piping, they require an additional radiator to cool the water and they also require electrical components such as a water pump and associated switches to control the operation of the water pump. The air/air intercooler is much more straight forward and is therefore cheaper.

Found the difference

[Nik@VF]

When using correctly specd components, a chargecooler AKA (air/water) is superior to any intercooler (air/air). No doubt the hardcore air/air enthusiasts will strongly disgaree, however many high powered production cars use chargecooling, including most Mercedes AMG models.

The key difference between A/A and A/W aftercooling is that that you are cooling the boost charge with ambient air with A/A. With A/W you are cooling water which in turn cools the boost charge.

In an A/W system, the water is usually always circulated in an isolated cooling system requiring a reservoir and electric pump. Clever packaging and experience has allowed us to evolve our kits to a level whereby they are very simple.

The benefits of air/water stem from the fact that water has a greater propensity to dissipate heat than air. This means that the boost is cooled more "effectively" with cold water. A/W also gives a more cosistent output by keeping the boost temps in a narrower temperature band than with A/A. Consistent temperatures mean greater performance and improved reliability for high boost cars.


Here is a technical paper on A/W cooling http://www.vortecheng.com/download.p...oler_paper.pdf

[acidrome]

WHOA , Thats what I'm looking foward to when my car is done? Frickin SWEEEET!!! . I can't wait!!!!! Looks Great.

[AudiWxGuy]

WHat are we looking at price wise?

[cstarky15]

what happens when you are in a place that has below freezing temps? how do you keep the water from freezing and expanding and breaking the container?

[Nik@VF]

what happens when you are in a place that has below freezing temps? how do you keep the water from freezing and expanding and breaking the container?

Coolant antifreeze 50/50 - just like engine coolant!

[cstarky15]

Thanks!!

[Jmaak]

Wow that looks amazing. Finally some innovative new products for the a4!

[Alky]

No ballpark pricing figure?

[agkellyboy]

Certainly a stealthy alternative to the AWE FMIC. Someone leak a price and some numbers and this will get some serious attention

[AAAA]

this is a great concept that is well overdue for this scene. water/air is usually only something you see on a custom BT setup. I think this will be a very efficient system, especially at for the k03/k04s at low speed spitting all that hot air out, as well as the stealth effect as someone else mentioned. Great job VF!

[viperdsa]

Just hope the price tag isn't huge.

[Allan T]

Nice project

[AudiA4_20T]

that is badass

[slimmj0k3r]

can this be paired up with a meth kit?

[agkellyboy]

can this be paired up with a meth kit?

x2

[acidrome]

can this be paired up with a meth kit?

I believe it can be paired up . I'll let Nik chime in some more to make it a fact. He will also be posting all the temp logs later today for stock and BT setups.

[Nik@VF]

can this be paired up with a meth kit?

Yes, can be done, but we dont see a point to it.

We especially dont like the idea of squirting methanol into the intake of the motor. But each to their own!

[Nail Nutter]

Nik,

What is your concern with methanol injection?

[Slo.Mo.Shun.]

Just fell of my chair ...

[Grassmonkey]

I wanna know more!!!

[Geoffafa]

that is sex, wow i need a price

[greg@dubaudi]

Nice work guys

[dougyfresh]

Yes, can be done, but we dont see a point to it.

We especially dont like the idea of squirting methanol into the intake of the motor. But each to their own!

I am with you on that one.


Cool project. Looking forward to seeing the road test results

[CZA420tAvant]

this looks very clean and from what I know, and as stated, will do a more efficient job cooling. These systems show up on huge turbo systems.

[Dangler]

fuckin sick

[agkellyboy]

Bringing this to the top in anticipation of some numbers!

[A4ringedONE8T]

Very nice Nik I'm an air/air guy but that looks very nice! Anyone that wants to drag race their cars, this is the way to go. At times air/air can be more efficient for a daily driver but if and when that heat exchanger isn't heat soaked, they are amazing, easy 20-30whp + with a BT setup over an efficient aftermarket air/air setup

BTW this is Shawn @ 1552

[agkellyboy]

Update? Hopefully we can get some prices before the holidays?

[Vorsprung]

Very nice Nik I'm an air/air guy but that looks very nice! Anyone that wants to drag race their cars, this is the way to go. At times air/air can be more efficient for a daily driver but if and when that heat exchanger isn't heat soaked, they are amazing, easy 20-30whp + with a BT setup over an efficient aftermarket air/air setup

BTW this is Shawn @ 1552

Kinda off topic but congrats on the eurotuner feature. Its nice to finally see some nice audis in there.

back on topic: looks like good alternative to a fmic

[Sean@VF]

Kinda off topic but congrats on the eurotuner feature. Its nice to finally see some nice audis in there.

OH, this little cover?



-Sean

[acidrome]

As some of you know already my car has been at VF Engineering for a little while now getting their first production RSS Stage 3 kit installed for the B7 A4 2.0T.

I was in the neighborhood yesterday and decided to stop by and check out how everything was coming along and to check out the air/water chargecooler.
Though most of you have already seen pictures of the chargecooler from this post being able to see it first hand is phenomenal. The chargecooler is working like a champ and everthing looks great.

Hopefully if everthing works out the way it has been I should be able to bring my newly stg3 B7 A4 home tomorrow. I will also make a new thread with an array of information on this new kit, from logs the chargecooler to dyno plots from GIAC's in-house Mustang AWD Dyno. I also plan on making serveral videos for you guys and taking alot more pictures.

In the mean time I wanted to show you guys a few pictures I took from yesterdays visit.
(edit: I know these are more teasers I just felt obliged to share them with the community)

This Monster is waiting to be awoken


This Beast has already begun it transformation



The Guts!!!


My little monster on the rack


More Air/Water chargecooler pics



VF RSS Stg3 installed

[Quattro]

^saw your car in person =D

i was talking to nik about the bt =D

-randy

[acidrome]

Thanks Randy...Did you take a trip to VF? or was it at one of our our various Irvine meets?

When I get the green light to pick her up I will definitely give you a test drive whenever you want. Hopefully this weekend.

(p.s. Anyone local who want to take a look and/or a ride just PM me and let me know.)

-Paul

[4RingRook]

VF RSS Stg3 installed

What kind of numbers are you going to put down with this monster? Ball park?

[acidrome]

Were shooting for 400chp+ on 91 oct. or as close as possible... We'll see.

[Quattro]

Thanks Randy...Did you take a trip to VF? or was it at one of our our various Irvine meets?

When I get the green light to pick her up I will definitely give you a test drive whenever you want. Hopefully this weekend.

(p.s. Anyone local who want to take a look and/or a ride just PM me and let me know.)

-Paul

nope, it was at VF, I made a trip up there with my gf to see the bt and talk to nik. I will be giving him a call next week after your car is ready. Car wasn't fully ready and would love to take a test drive. I am skeptical running a bt on my tiptronic car, I would love to do it....but the costs of a new tranny not worth it. Maybe a test drive will change my mind.

-randy