Some of the goodies for the big turbo build up are finally arriving...

[Jet Jockey]

First, the Autronic SM4 stand alone ECU.




Another angle.




Then on to the TiAL 44mm V Band wastegate, in red of course.




Another angle.




The TiAL Q BOV.




Another angle.




Finally the aluminium flange to fit the BOV to the aluminium turbo to intercooler piping.

[Maverick]

Stand Alone ECU, wuhaaaa.
sick

[mike-2ptzero]

Just so you know, your going to find that the Tial 50mm BOV will cause you to have some lag between shifts, everyone that has used one on a A4 has had the problem and a solution is to put a worm clamp over the valve opening which cant be done on the Q.

[martini]

what! i thought you were all about small turbos with quick spool

what turbo you goin with?

[Jet Jockey]

what! i thought you were all about small turbos with quick spool

what turbo you goin with?

That is true or was true when I stuck to autocross but now that I have given up on that I need more top end power because I'm on road courses all the time. So naturally a bigger turbo is what is now required.

However I won’t go too big at least not just yet. I’ve settled on a GT2860RS (disco potato) with the optional TiAL V Band Stainless Steel housing with the 0.64 AR.

This should give me some low end torque and give me a lot more top end power when compared to my MTM K04.

If later on I desire more top end yet again and decide to forgo some low end grunt then I can always upgrade to a bigger turbo.

[Jet Jockey]

Just so you know, your going to find that the Tial 50mm BOV will cause you to have some lag between shifts, everyone that has used one on a A4 has had the problem and a solution is to put a worm clamp over the valve opening which cant be done on the Q.

Two things Mike...

First, I have been told "bullshit" on the "Q" BOV as far as lag goes so I will gamble and test it myself. If it doesn't work out I'll change it.

Second, when do I become an official member of the BAT community?

[mike-2ptzero]

Two things Mike...

First, I have been told "bullshit" on the "Q" BOV as far as lag goes so I will gamble and test it myself. If it doesn't work out I'll change it.

Second, when do I become an official member of the BAT community?

I can give you a member number now and you can join the group page too.


There is B6 owner on the site that is running the Tial 50mm which had lag issues and ended up putting a strap over the tail to reduce how much pressure got out of it when it opens. The Q was designed to let even more pressure out when it opens vs the standard 50mm.

Through countless hours of R&D we were able to make the same size valve flow a staggering 60% more than the original design - that means 60% more air is blown off per cycle!

[Jet Jockey]

I can give you a member number now and you can join the group page too.


There is B6 owner on the site that is running the Tial 50mm which had lag issues and ended up putting a strap over the tail to reduce how much pressure got out of it when it opens. The Q was designed to let even more pressure out when it opens vs the standard 50mm.

Yes I know about TiAL's claims that it dumps more air but if it turns out that we have problems with it I'll replace it.

BTW, which TiAL BOV with a V Band should I look into if this one turns out to cause a very big lag issue?

Yes you can give me my BAT member number and where do I sign up?

Thanks.

[mike-2ptzero]

Yes I know about TiAL's claims that it dumps more air but if it turns out that we have problems with it I'll replace it.

BTW, which TiAL BOV with a V Band should I look into if this one turns out to cause a very big lag issue?

Yes you can give me my BAT member number and where do I sign up?

Thanks.

Just the standard Tial 50mm BOV. It is flat around the area where the vents are located which allows you to put a hose clamp over it to reduce flow.

Here you can see the clamp on the Tial BOV in this picture of my car.


Member #47

Sig info


You can sign up for the group by clicking on the link in my sig.

[BARRY]

wait...full standalone and 44mm wastegate for a disco potato?

complete overkill! like SUPER overkill.


the issue with wastegates is the fact that, if you are trying to control boost and limit it, you want a smaller wastegate to fluctuate the pressure. if you go with a much larger wastegate, as little as it reacts you will be bleeding off A LOT of pressure so you'll have sudden changes in pressure.

if all you want to do is limit boost pressure smaller is better. this will also keep your turbo spooled for quick response.

[Jet Jockey]

wait...full standalone and 44mm wastegate for a disco potato?

complete overkill! like SUPER overkill.


the issue with wastegates is the fact that, if you are trying to control boost and limit it, you want a smaller wastegate to fluctuate the pressure. if you go with a much larger wastegate, as little as it reacts you will be bleeding off A LOT of pressure so you'll have sudden changes in pressure.

if all you want to do is limit boost pressure smaller is better. this will also keep your turbo spooled for quick response.

And what the fuck do you know?

[A4ringedONE8T]

And what the fuck do you know?

haha you sound like me! Let me try shit for myself and make my own conclusions. Ive done a few things that others said not to and I think it worked out for the better! I agree 110%, try something for yourself if you believe in it, if it doesnt work, its on you, no one else!!! I'm good with that as well!

[sean1.8t]

And what the fuck do you know?

haha! thinking the same thing.

good luck on the setup!

[mike-2ptzero]

wait...full standalone and 44mm wastegate for a disco potato?

complete overkill! like SUPER overkill.


the issue with wastegates is the fact that, if you are trying to control boost and limit it, you want a smaller wastegate to fluctuate the pressure. if you go with a much larger wastegate, as little as it reacts you will be bleeding off A LOT of pressure so you'll have sudden changes in pressure.

if all you want to do is limit boost pressure smaller is better. this will also keep your turbo spooled for quick response.

well first off there really isn't such a thing as "overkill" when talking about a wg. Plus people like going with the 44mm because it is a Vband and at this point it isn't like he can go out and buy a 38vband Tial since they have not been released yet.

2nd a external wg is always closed while the turbo is making less then the set boost level, so a smaller wg isn't going to allow the turbo to spool up quicker. A larger turbo will also have to open less to adjust the amount of boost being made, this would mean the wg valve will travel less.

[jon102034050]

And what the fuck do you know?

lol, owned.

[dirtybrd]

Jet, if you have an issue with the release of to much air from the WG, you can always add some a spacer inside the WG to limit its travel.

Edit, I was thinking BOV

[romell]

And what the fuck do you know?

umm... barry just bought an autobahn88 intercooler of ebay.. so he has a lot of cred on here. so im sure he knows his shit...


go on barry go on... mike doesnt know his stuff that well either.. elaborate on what you have to say.

[absolutegtr]

i lol'd

[romell]

was i really mean?

[Jet Jockey]

umm... barry just bought an autobahn88 intercooler of ebay.. so he has a lot of cred on here. so im sure he knows his shit...


go on barry go on... mike doesnt know his stuff that well either.. elaborate on what you have to say.

I like your sarcasm.

Which Mike doesn't know his stuff that well?

I bought two Setrab cores to make my FMIC (one will be a spare), does that mean I know dick shit?

[Jet Jockey]

was i really mean?

Mean to whom?

[romell]

to barry.

[romell]

and about mike... COMPLETE sarcasm.

[20vturbo]

hahahahaha did yo guys actually read his post..I had to read it several times

"the issue with wastegates is the fact that, if you are trying to control boost and limit it, you want a smaller wastegate to fluctuate the pressure"

tounderstand nothiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiig

honestly we should make a thread with top 10 most useless posts

[BARRY]

1. The wastegate size is relevant to how much horsepower you are targeting
2. If you want to run high boost, then a smaller wastegate is better than a larger wastegate. The idea being that in order to generate high boost you need most of the exhaust gas going through the turbine, not through the wastegate.
3. If you want to run low boost then a larger wastegate is better than a smaller wastegate. The idea being that in order to keep the boost low you need a lot of the exhaust gas going through the wastegate not through the turbine.

http://forums.performancecar.co.nz/v...p?f=37&t=47193

couldn't find the info on tials website any longer.

[mike-2ptzero]

You are missing the point. The size of the WG does not matter since it is "closed" while the turbo is spooling up. So the size of it doesn't really play a roll in the power made or how the turbo spools up because there is no exhaust going thru it and this means all of the exhaust is going thru the turbine.

A wastegate size really just comes into play when the turbo is at full boost and the extra exhaust needs to bypass the turbine too hold that boost level and if not enough of that exhaust cant be bypassed the turbo then starts to "boost creep".

[A4SoftWalker]

You are missing the point. The size of the WG does not matter since it is "closed" while the turbo is spooling up. So the size of it doesn't really play a roll in the power made or how the turbo spools up because there is no exhaust going thru it and this means all of the exhaust is going thru the turbine.

A wastegate size really just comes into play when the turbo is at full boost and the extra exhaust needs to bypass the turbine too hold that boost level and if not enough of that exhaust cant be bypassed the turbo then starts to "boost creep".

Exactly, WG size is actually related to how much exhaust needs to bypass the hotside turbine of the turbo @ full boost. This depends on a few things:

1) Engine size
2) Turbo size
3) Horsepower level
4) Exhaust manifold efficiency

[BARRY]

You are missing the point. The size of the WG does not matter since it is "closed" while the turbo is spooling up. So the size of it doesn't really play a roll in the power made or how the turbo spools up because there is no exhaust going thru it and this means all of the exhaust is going thru the turbine.

A wastegate size really just comes into play when the turbo is at full boost and the extra exhaust needs to bypass the turbine too hold that boost level and if not enough of that exhaust cant be bypassed the turbo then starts to "boost creep".

i guess all you guys are just simple drag racers aren't you? what about part throttle taking a turn? your turbo will not be boosting 100% at part throttle. your wastegate needs to modulate the psi to where ever you have set the psi to remain and not surge. you want smooth boost response which will make the engine easier to drive.

the 44mm will work, but for a such a small turbo a 38mm or internal wastegate would work the same if not better. with that and a autronic, of course you are leaving room for bigger upgrades in the future, but why even play with a gt2860 if thats the case?

you all need to really stop with the bashing session and just take this as you learn something i learn something.

[Shady Milkman]

what manifold are you going to use for the gt28rs?

[sean1.8t]

i guess all you guys are just simple drag racers aren't you? what about part throttle taking a turn? your turbo will not be boosting 100% at part throttle. your wastegate needs to modulate the psi to where ever you have set the psi to remain and not surge. you want smooth boost response which will make the engine easier to drive.

the 44mm will work, but for a such a small turbo a 38mm or internal wastegate would work the same if not better. with that and a autronic, of course you are leaving room for bigger upgrades in the future, but why even play with a gt2860 if thats the case?

you all need to really stop with the bashing session and just take this as you learn something i learn something.

yes and no. you learned something. you don't understand:

1-what jet jockey is trying to accomplish with his goals
2- what you are talking about.

you are just spouting out information you read on the internet. just for one minute think about the physics of how the exhaust gases, turbo, and wg work together.

and no. you did not teach any of us anything.

not trying to be rude here. but come on

[Audi Skate Snow]

And what the fuck do you know?

clasic!

[A4p]

Jet jockey is guru

[Jet Jockey]

clasic!

Hey Bro!

Did I miss something? When did you move to Denver? Did you find your new
A4 to build yet?

[Jet Jockey]

Jet jockey is guru

I assure you I'm no Guru but thanks for the thought!

There are amazing and helpful people on here that really know their sh!t and I'm not one of them.

[[email protected]]

I assure you I'm no Guru but thanks for the thought!

There are amazing and helpful people on here that really know their sh!t and I'm not one of them.

But you have nice sh!t

[Jet Jockey]

i guess all you guys are just simple drag racers aren't you? what about part throttle taking a turn? your turbo will not be boosting 100% at part throttle. your wastegate needs to modulate the psi to where ever you have set the psi to remain and not surge. you want smooth boost response which will make the engine easier to drive.

the 44mm will work, but for a such a small turbo a 38mm or internal wastegate would work the same if not better. with that and a autronic, of course you are leaving room for bigger upgrades in the future, but why even play with a gt2860 if thats the case?

Take it easy man!

Yes some of the guys on here like to drag their cars. However it is not my case and obviously you don't know me or my car and what I used it for in the past and what I'm transitioning to or have been for the last two years.

So I’ll give you as break and explain the situation…

I come from an autocross background so I wanted my car to perform extremely well in that kind of competition. To do so I needed gobs of torque low down so I asked MTM to provide me with a special K04 and special programming. Results on the dyno were amazing; 240 whp on 94 octane and 255 whp on VP 109 with around 270 ft/lbs of torque at 3100 rpm. I’m no drag racer/driver but I wanted to see how this car would perform on the ¼ strip so at my second time ever on a drag strip I managed a 13.3 at 107.3 mph and this was before the car was completely lighten or striped. I believe to this day it is the most powerful and fastest K04 powered A4.

Now what happened is I got fed up with autocrossing and started to do solosprint, lapping days and HPDEs with the car and I got hooked. Again with my set up it was apparent that the car had tremendous potential but was lacking in “top end” performance (above 5000 rpm). The car was fast enough on the track and especially in the corners and going through turns that I said to myself that if ever I went off it would be dangerous for my health. So last fall (a year ago now) I decided to strip the car and install a roll cage and make this a real track car. In the process of stripping it all electronic were removed; ABS, ESP, secondary air pump, Evap system, and so on. Needless to say the ME7 did not like this and now finds itself missing a lot of info so the motor as not been running really great since then with part throttle hesitation and we think we are down on power too. Couple that with a FMIC that did not provide sufficient cooling with AIT up in the low 70s you can just imagine the drop in power. This is the main reason for the Autronic standalone ECU. I will be able to control the car’s engine better. BTW, even the radiator fans are controlled by the ME7 and so the OE fans will be removed and replaced by an aftermarket fan that takes less current to work and is lighter and will be controlled by more conventional means.

This summer with all the engine problems mentioned above but with better brakes and a roll cage installed the car was even faster. Just as reference I am faster then the E46 M3, the RS4, some Porsches and I have even managed to be faster then the R8 around the track. The R8 easily as 120 to 140 HP at the crank over my car so this just tells you how the car performs over all on the track.

Now because my present kit gives me so much torque at low RPMs I’m very reluctant to go “too big” on the turbo. I’m willing to sacrifice some low end performance but not all of it just to get really good high end performance. So this is why I chose the GT28RS with the TiAL Stainless Steel housing with a 0.62 AR. Hopefully I will still get fast spool ups with the most torque possible at low RPMs and get the much needed top end above 5000 RPM and into the 6K range.

We are still looking at the possibility of yet a bigger turbo and possibly other mods so stay tuned for more info in the future.

[mike-2ptzero]

i guess all you guys are just simple drag racers aren't you? what about part throttle taking a turn? your turbo will not be boosting 100% at part throttle. your wastegate needs to modulate the psi to where ever you have set the psi to remain and not surge. you want smooth boost response which will make the engine easier to drive.

the 44mm will work, but for a such a small turbo a 38mm or internal wastegate would work the same if not better. with that and a autronic, of course you are leaving room for bigger upgrades in the future, but why even play with a gt2860 if thats the case?

you all need to really stop with the bashing session and just take this as you learn something i learn something.

I still dont think you have learned anything. The size of the WG does not matter, it isn't like both WG's have to open 100% to control boost. The 44mm wg will just have to crack open to hold a set boost while a 38mm will have to open even more to hold the same boost. No matter what the WG will only open so much to allow enough exhaust flow out of it to hold a set boost level, so that means both the 44mm and 38mm will open enough to allow the same amount of flow. The 44mm will have a much higher max flow while the 38mm will flow less, this means at some point the 38mm will hit its max flow causing pressure to build up and forcing the exhaust to go thru the turbine instead and this is what is called "boost creep".

BTW what does "drag racing" have to do with knowing anything about a external WG?

[F16HTON]

The 44mm wastegate is the ideal choice for road racing applications, the reasoning for this is that it will eliminate boost creep and you set the sensitivity much higher than a 33mm wastegate.

I know that the 44mm will also produce much better throttle modulated boost which can be written into the Autronic maps.

[BARRY]

jet jockey,
i see where you're comming from now. as soon as this went downhill everybody went downhill.

i do have a feeling after maybe a year or so you'll upgrade your turbo and then you're complete setup with a larger turbo will be perfect. the autronic is a SUPERB computer and the tial vband44 is great as well.

good luck on the build. with the autronic i'm sure you'll make A LOT of power.

[mtbrider]

Good luck Mike