Snow Tire/Rim Package - Unpimp my ride?

[Bear Creek Zeke]

Now that the snow if falling here in Northern Michigan I am sliding all over hell with my stock Pirelli P6 235 40 R18s on my 18" stock titanium rims.

On tire rack they are recommending that I undersize to a 16" rim. Are these cheap $100 wheels safe to drive on? The 16" snows sure are a lot cheaper than the 18" snows--about half the price. I am thinking about going with the Dunlop Wintersport 3Ds.

Should I unpimp my ride and go down to a 16" rim for the winter, or is this overkill? I would like dedicated winter wheels/tires, so I just have to decide on size.

[GrandMarkie]

I had the 18" Dunlop 3D's last year on my stock Sline wheels, they were pretty damn good.

This year (new car), i'll be running on my stock titanium's with Blizzaks. Spending the extra money for 18's to make your car look good year-round is worth it IMO.

[ryannorthcott]

i don't know... i've got 16's for winter and the good thing about that is a. tires are way cheaper and b. i don't care as much if my wheels get raped by salt/gravel/whatever else is on the road during winter.

and no i don't see how it could be unsafe to roll on 16's during winter. it's likely the same rolling diameter as your 18's for the wheels and tires anyways.

if you're that concerned about looks, i'd just get a set of 17's for winter. that way i think you'd have a good balance of appearance and functionality. also depends on how harsh your winters get....

[minameismud]

check craigslist for rims. i had to watch it for a few weeks before i found some kid who lives near me selling 4 stock audi rims (17x7.5, with damn near bald blizzaks) for $150. now i just need to get 4 of the general altimaxes from tirerack for $105/ea + shipping, then mounting for $15/ea and i'm set. pretty cheap.

fyi, once you've done a search on craigslist, you can get an RSS feed of the search results to stick in your preferred RSS reader (ie. Google Reader, NetNewsWire, etc.). i had 3 searches in 6 different areas each that i was watching.

[climbernyc]

i'm downsizing to 16s for the winter: my weekend house is in the mountains with some gravel roads. better traction and more comfortable on rough snowy roads. if you are only traveling in light snow, 17s should be fine

[Entropy333]

I thought the P6's on titaniums was somewhat of an ice rink also. Doable...but not comfortable like I thought they would be.

So I got the cheap ones from Tire Rack..the Sport Edition F7s ($97 a wheel) and used studded hankook ice pikes. Whole setup cost me around 900 installed. I have been driving around on them for a while with no issues. IMO 16" snow tires are far superior to the wider 18" snows. It was either downgrade to 16" snow tires or put winter wheels on my 18's titaniums and then put 19's on my car next summer. I opted for the smaller size for snow tire replacement cost and ease of finding snow tires locally.

Also...in regards to cost...it wasn't to long ago that you could buy 16" steel wheels for under $50. Steelies in VW/Audi offset in Alaska were $120/piece.

[Louis J.]

I'm pimpin' UP for winter. Just bought a set of 18x8.5 ET35 RS6 reps on Hankook W300s. Under $1,300 mounted, balanced and taxes in. I want my car looking good for the next four months.

All-seasons are not appropriate for snow/ice and Pirellis are particularly bad in the wet/cold. I would seriously consider picking up a set of proper snows.

[Sharkfin]

I think you should just get some new snow TIRES and not a whole set of wheels. My 0.02

['mk4-turbo]

i'm running on 16" michelin x ice with audi replica wheels

last year

[artinmoTTion]

Hey,

Moved recently from the Elk Lake area, have had an A4, S4, and TT there, and used to travel all the back roads there all winter long.
It's an outstanding idea to have a dedicated winter setup. You don't want to trash your summer wheels in the winter there, and your summer rubber will just last that much longer. Many tires don't like to have their bead disrupted around the edge by changing rims 2x/year also.

I've used a lot of sets of winter tires up there, and, continuing to follow winter tires closely (sorry, it's become a bit of a fetish) my recommendation based on what's out there now, and knowing what you'll be driving in, would be to go with the new General/Continental Altimax Arctic (made in Germany) or the Hankook iPike. I would suggest the Nokian Hakka 5 or one of the Gislaved tires, but they're harder to get and more expensive.
Be sure to keep full pressure in the tires (check when colder out), it will help with the dry handling. The tires will be a bit slippery at first from the mold release agent in the treads from when it was made, so know that, and drive a bit on dry pavement to help get it out of there.

I had the predecessor of the Dunlop Wintersport 3D when I lived there by you and was underwhelmed. I know the 3D is better than the older versions, but it's still an all season plus kind of snow tire, and you deal with a lot of pretty dicey conditions up there with lake effect on 31, etc. etc. in the winter, so I would definitely recommend going with a bit more hardcore of a snow tire, knowing that you'll be sacrificing a bit more dry handling to keep safer when it gets nasty out. People think that because you have quattro, it doesn't matter what snow tires you get, forgetting that the snows will do a lot of your braking when it's nasty out, when quattro doesn't help at all.

I'd get a 16" wheel setup if I were you. I had both when I was up there, and the 16" set was less trouble prone. What I found was that during my travels up there, even on the 16's but far more so on 17's, snow and ice would build up inside the rims and cause a balance problem (easier for it to get in there with the lower profile tires), so I'd be driving down 31 or 72 and have the wheel be shaking violently from being out of balance. Solution: know where the DIY car wash places are (Kalkaska, Petoskey, TC, etc) and spray out the wheels when this happens.

A quick search shows that the Petoskey WalMart carries General Tires, so can probably get the Altimax Arctics pretty cheap if you don't get a wheel / tire set from Tire Rack or Tires.com. (Tires.com is Discount Tire, also in TC by Meijer). Not sure I'd let WalMart touch my A4, but you could maybe just buy the tires there, if not at TireRack/Discount Tire.


Lastly, put those stock tires on craigslist, etc. in the Spring and get some real summer rubber on those nice rims next summer. Did that with ours when we got the car. Now that you'll have a good dedicated winter setup, there's no reason to be running compromised no season tires at all....too many fun roads up by you to waste your car on no season tires.

Have fun and be safe.

[Louis J.]

Hey,

Moved recently from the Elk Lake area, have had an A4, S4, and TT there, and used to travel all the back roads there all winter long.
It's an outstanding idea to have a dedicated winter setup. You don't want to trash your summer wheels in the winter there, and your summer rubber will just last that much longer. Many tires don't like to have their bead disrupted around the edge by changing rims 2x/year also.

I've used a lot of sets of winter tires up there, and, continuing to follow winter tires closely (sorry, it's become a bit of a fetish) my recommendation based on what's out there now, and knowing what you'll be driving in, would be to go with the new General/Continental Altimax Arctic (made in Germany) or the Hankook iPike. I would suggest the Nokian Hakka 5 or one of the Gislaved tires, but they're harder to get and more expensive.
Be sure to keep full pressure in the tires (check when colder out), it will help with the dry handling. The tires will be a bit slippery at first from the mold release agent in the treads from when it was made, so know that, and drive a bit on dry pavement to help get it out of there.

I had the predecessor of the Dunlop Wintersport 3D when I lived there by you and was underwhelmed. I know the 3D is better than the older versions, but it's still an all season plus kind of snow tire, and you deal with a lot of pretty dicey conditions up there with lake effect on 31, etc. etc. in the winter, so I would definitely recommend going with a bit more hardcore of a snow tire, knowing that you'll be sacrificing a bit more dry handling to keep safer when it gets nasty out. People think that because you have quattro, it doesn't matter what snow tires you get, forgetting that the snows will do a lot of your braking when it's nasty out, when quattro doesn't help at all.

I'd get a 16" wheel setup if I were you. I had both when I was up there, and the 16" set was less trouble prone. What I found was that during my travels up there, even on the 16's but far more so on 17's, snow and ice would build up inside the rims and cause a balance problem (easier for it to get in there with the lower profile tires), so I'd be driving down 31 or 72 and have the wheel be shaking violently from being out of balance. Solution: know where the DIY car wash places are (Kalkaska, Petoskey, TC, etc) and spray out the wheels when this happens.

A quick search shows that the Petoskey WalMart carries General Tires, so can probably get the Altimax Arctics pretty cheap if you don't get a wheel / tire set from Tire Rack or Tires.com. (Tires.com is Discount Tire, also in TC by Meijer). Not sure I'd let WalMart touch my A4, but you could maybe just buy the tires there, if not at TireRack/Discount Tire.


Lastly, put those stock tires on craigslist, etc. in the Spring and get some real summer rubber on those nice rims next summer. Did that with ours when we got the car. Now that you'll have a good dedicated winter setup, there's no reason to be running compromised no season tires at all....too many fun roads up by you to waste your car on no season tires.

Have fun and be safe.

Very, very good advice. You have to get tires that are appropriate for the climate you live in. I can get away with 18" "highway winter tires" because I won't see more than 2' of snow and will mostly deal with cold and wet weather. If you're exposed to harsh winter climate, a more dedicated winter tire is better suited. Getting something with a taller sidewall (16" or 17" wheel) and narrower width (195s or 205s maybe) plus maybe something studdable is better for extreme winter conditions.

[artinmoTTion]

Absolutely right, Louis. They don't allow studded tires in Michigan.
BTW, I now live out by you - PNW - Columbia Gorge.

Cheers....

[Louis J.]

Absolutely right, Louis. They don't allow studded tires in Michigan.
BTW, I now live out by you - PNW - Columbia Gorge.

Cheers....

Nice. I'm actually north of you in Vancouver but have driven by Columbia a few times. What tires are you going to run?

[Moore00]

Where in Northern Michigan? I'm a Yooper now transplanted to Grand Rapids.

Also, anyone have a very cheap winter wheel? I'm not super concerned about looks.

[fajimr]

great read.. and timely too as I live in N. Utah.

I currently have a sport version avant with 17' wheels and was considering getting 16" tires for winter. Tire rack says that i could downsize to 215/55-16 although from what i have read narrrower is better. Could I do 205/55-16?

I mainly drive plowed roads and they are pretty good at plowing here.. but you know the best days are those classic utah dump days so every now and then i will be driving in deeper snow- especially to get first tracks

didn't meant to hijack the thread here but hope to continue with some general snow tire discussion.

jim

[BLarche]

Moore, what part of the UP?

[artinmoTTion]

He's up by Petoskey I believe, we moved from the TC-Elk Rapids area. Wife went to Northern : )

[artinmoTTion]

Fajimr,

I'd check with the Tire Rack guy on the Audiworld wheel and tire forum to confirm. The width of the tire is partly based on which wheel you're using, as wider wheels shouldn't have very narrow tires on them, there's a safe range for each wheel. As long as 205 width is ok for the wheels you're looking at, the narrower tire might help, but I'd otherwise stick with TR's recommendation. You can also call them for some good advice. Keep in mind that the narrower you go, your dry road performance will also suffer a bit, but they will cut through deeper snow better. I'd stick with the Hankook winter iPike or the General Altimax Arctic for that kind of driving. Nokian Hakka 5 if you can find them at a decent price.

[artinmoTTion]

Moore00 --

keep a look out for used stock wheels in the classifieds here and on fourtitude and audiworld, if not craigslist. For new, edgeracing, tires.com and tirerack have some pretty good deals.

[BLarche]

Excellent. I was born and raised in Escanaba, just about an hour south of Northern.

[RedS-line]

Louis, i just picked up 18s and am thinking about the w300's as well. are you gonna run them as 225s? havent really heard much about hankook but the price is right. did you order from tires easy?

[Bear Creek Zeke]

Hey everybody, thanks for the great responses.

I am a troll, living down here underneath the bridge in Petoskey. It has been in the 20's this week, and the Lake Effect snow machine is beginning to kick into gear!

Prior to owning my 2007 Phantom Black A4 Quattro S-Line Titanium 6MT, I had driven Ford Explorers for fifteen years. As you can imagine, I didn't have much of a problem getting around in my Explorers, even with standard all-season radials. So this winter driving in an Audi is new to me.

I love the look of my 18" titanium wheels, but from the sounds of it, I think I should go with the 16" rims for the snow. Before I started researching this topic, I had no idea that there would be a performance difference between the 16" and 18" wheels in the snow. If anything, I thought that the bigger 18" footprint would give a better grip on the snow and ice. Guess I was wrong on that!

Being a cheapskate (one of the reasons I bought the car was the great gas mileage), I am happy to see that the 16" tires cost about half of what the 18" tires do.

Ryan: You are right that the salt, sand, etc. from the road takes its toll on wheels. I kind of like the idea of laying up the titanium rims for the winter.

Mud: Thanks for the Craigslist Tip. I haven't found anything yet but will keep looking.

Climber: I do a fair amount of driving on gravel and potholes. I am interested to see if I get a more comfortable ride with the 16" rims.

Entropy: Thanks for the feedback. It sounds like 16's are the way to go for me too.

MK4: Those 16" rims don't look too bad on your car. I think I can live with them.

Art: Thanks for the great feedback and advice. You know what I will be dealing with up here and I value your opinion. From what you and others have said, I think the dedicated winter wheel setup is the way to go for me. I will look for the Generals. I am curious, what would you recommend for a summer tire. I pushed the Pirellis really hard this summer. I drove some clients on M119 this past week before it got cold (between Harbor Springs and Cross Village) and I think the lady almost threw up in the backseat. I thought the Pirellis were great but I am used to driving a Ford Explorer. I could be dangerous with a really high performance tire. :-) Next thing you know I will be getting a performance chip for the car. How are you liking it in the Gorge? I have friends in Hood River. I'm sure you don't miss the snow.

Moore: I live in Petoskey. They have a pretty decent selection of 16" rims on tirerack.com for about $100/apiece. The nice thing is that if you get the tires there they mount and balance for free, so you can put them on yourself. Where are you from in the UP? I used to have a cabin in Paradise and have done quite a bit of snowmobiling up there.

Thanks again everyone for the great feedback and suggestions.

[Louis J.]

Louis, i just picked up 18s and am thinking about the w300's as well. are you gonna run them as 225s? haven't really heard much about hankook but the price is right. did you order from tires easy?

I bought 235s because the wheels I bought are 8.5" wide but if you've got 18x8s, I'd go with 225s. I can't speak from experience because I don't have them on the car yet but I read numerous reviews mostly on other car forums and they seem to be an excellent choice if you're looking for something that can give you decent performance on dry road. Some of the main comments I remember:

- Stable at speed on the highway
- Quiet for a snow tire
- All-season performance-like in the dry and wet (better handling than a pure snow)
- Excellent in snow and ice. Even though it's designed for light snow conditions, I read very good reviews from guys running them in Alberta and Toronto where they can get big dumps.
- Longer life than comparable tires.

I've had Nokian WRs and the tread pattern of the Hankook W300s is almost identical to the new generation Nokian WR G2. Tire easy is the best price on the net but I had Discount Tire match the price. $157 for 235/40/18.

[RedS-line]

thanks for the info ^. thats funny cuz i did the same thing with the price match but they were still more expensive. guess they dont like me as much :)

[shawnie53]

I downsized from 17s to 16s for the winter. Less bumpy ride for the crazy Montreal winters with all of our potholes. The tires are cheaper too, and honestly, who really cares what your rims look like in the middle of a snowstorm! People have steelies on their cars!

[Louis J.]

thanks for the info ^. thats funny cuz i did the same thing with the price match but they were still more expensive. guess they dont like me as much :)

Haha. I think the price moves up as we get closer to winter and demand goes up/supplies deplete.

[MichiganAudiDvr]

Great to see all the Michigan people in this thread...

Great advice.

[4RingRook]

I was looking at a set of B5 S4 wheels with a set of snows for my winter setup.

Will those fit a b7 a4? (5xs112, 17x8, et 35 i believe)

[Bear Creek Zeke]

Update: I spoke with Doc at TireRack and he said that I need an XL extra load rated tire. Don't know why, but sure enough my current 18" P6s are XL rated. This limits my choices in 16" at TireRack to the Michelin X-Ice and Dunlop Wintersport 3D. I am leaning toward the Dunlops.

[artinmoTTion]

Zeke,

Between those two, I'd get the Dunlops, but an XL load rating here = 97) is not necessary. It adds less than 100# to each tire's load capacity. You can get the Altimax Arctics from Tire Rack in 225/55/16 with a load capacity of 95 for only $87 each. That gives you a capacity of 1521# per tire, which is more than enough (6000# total load capacity) to carry around you and your A4. I don't run XL's here on our Avant. I'd still go with the Generals or Hankook iPikes for better snow traction than the higher speed rated Dunlops. Will get back to you on Summer tires.

[Bear Creek Zeke]

Update:

Art, I ended up taking your advice and going with the General Altimax Arctics. I have had them now for a couple of weeks and am very happy with them. I have never had a dedicated snow tire and it definitely makes a world of difference. The Generals were the cheapest snow tire as well, which was a bonus.

I ended up getting them from Tirerack for $75/each, size 215/55R16. I had them mounted on 16" Elbrus F7 alloy wheels, which ran $99/each. Shipping was under $100. I used ebates.com which saved me 4%. The tires arrived mounted and balanced for free. Installation was a breeze (other than trying to figure out how to get the tire jack to fit back in the trunk, which took me about an hour, and I still don't think I got it to fit in there right!).

We have had a brutal winter so far this year, with plenty of snow, ice and slush. I feel very confident driving in these conditions with my new tires. Thanks again everyone for your advice!