Vogtland vs. H&R race

[.Mad Hatter.]

which springs do i want?

from what i can tell, the h&rs will lower the car a little more, maybe half an inch more. ive heard nothing but good things about the vogtlands, and of course the h&rs always get great reviews.

as of right now they will be going on OE sport struts, i will likely upgrade to konis later on. I would love the ride height dropped a bit but i want the best performance spring i can get. the car is daily driven but i doubt the race springs would make it un driveable...just looking for some feedback and maybe pics.

[Spykce]

No personal experience, however a guy that comes in to work has vogtland and bilstein struts. He loves the setup, goes to autoX events and track days he says. He keeps telling me to get the same setup for mine when he sees me.

[onemoremile]

Vogtland Club Spec is very low. They were on the S4 with Konis and they had to be replaced with Shine Racing springs to get the car back up to a point that it can make it through a car wash.

[.Mad Hatter.]

hmm interesting...i was thinking more the sports...i liked the idea of the club spec but was worried they would be too stiff...then again i want it fairly stiff.

[ILoveT]

That's what she said.

[.Mad Hatter.]

i guess the club spec springs would be more of a direct comparison to the H&R race?

[.Mad Hatter.]

That's what she said.

well youve always left me smiling and satisfied....so...

[Militant-Grunt]

Ive driven two cars with H&R race springs, they're pretty damn low. Not to mention stiff as hell when used in conjunction with bilstein sport shocks.

[.Mad Hatter.]

as of right now they will be on OE sports...after that theyll likely be paired with konis. IIRC the bilsteins are what make the setup super stiff.

[Militant-Grunt]

as of right now they will be on OE sports...after that theyll likely be paired with konis. IIRC the bilsteins are what make the setup super stiff.

I dunno, Ive driven my buddies 330ci with bilsteins, was nice and comfortable. My old H&R sport and bilstein setup was unbelievably harsh.

[.Mad Hatter.]

sport? i think its the struts man.

i ran h&r sports on my 16v and they werent too harsh at all, i believe it was onemoremile and i talking about setups when he mentioned that its the rebound and dampering in the bilsteins that make setups with them pretty harsh.

the konis are more expensive, but they can be rebuilt and from what i hear, are a little better.

basically, im not too concerned about stiffness, i want the better performing spring, while keeping an aggressive stance in mind. i think the vogtlands are in the lead, club spec that is.

[Kronic Budz]

I dunno, Ive driven my buddies 330ci with bilsteins, was nice and comfortable. My old H&R sport and bilstein setup was unbelievably harsh.

eh i find it hard to believe that sport springs would be super stiff being on bilstiens. Its honestly mostly the springs that make a car stiff. The shocks/struts definitely have to due with it to, but i think race springs are always gunna be stiff. If they werent u would bottom out right?

[pologk04]

does anyone have experience running either H&R sport or race springs on the stock sport shocks? I was thinking of doing this myself cause i want my car to be lower and i'm cheap.

P.s. I'm not trying to jack your thread. its the same thing you're trying to find out right?

[onemoremile]

eh i find it hard to believe that sport springs would be super stiff being on bilstiens. Its honestly mostly the springs that make a car stiff. The shocks/struts definitely have to due with it to, but i think race springs are always gunna be stiff. If they werent u would bottom out right?

Bilsteins are a high pressure monotube and require more force to get moving. This has the effect of a supplemental spring rate. They have a sharper response and deal with heat better. Low pressure twin tubes like Konis are much easier to move and tend to be smoother and more supple.

I've got 400 pound Shine springs on my A4 Avant with Bilstein HDsand put 500 pound Shine springs on the S4 Avant with Konis. Both cars have H-Sport bars. My front bar is off and my car is still more harsh than the S4. The Konis just float over bumps while the Bilsteins crash into them. There is a very real difference in ride quality between the two cars which is made more real when you factor in that the S4's spring rate is 25% higher even though it is only 10% heavier. If the dampers were equal it wouldn't ride as nicely as the A4.

[kingtr]

as of right now they will be on OE sports...after that theyll likely be paired with konis. IIRC the bilsteins are what make the setup super stiff.

I do not agree. You should pair them with bilsteins. I had vogtland sports with bilstein shocks and h-sport sway bars and it was my favorite handling combination of any other setups i've driven (including my current car...) I bought my car with eibach sport and koni adjustables on it, was not very pleased with how it felt, mainly the front end. I bought my mechanics bilsteins that he tried and didnt like in his S4 (he said too nose heavy and had extra bounce) which I had already had a good experience with in my previous car.

I noticed a big difference right away. The konis seemed to let in (be pushed in) easier, but rebounded pretty quickly, whereas the bilsteins feel like they don't compress as easily. I noticed this because the front right tire would rub when I went around a specific corner (hard corner with a few outside tire bumps) as a certain speed, with bilsteins the car stayed more planted and no rubbing, albeit stiff. But this could be why you are hearing the harsher ride propaganda.

[.Mad Hatter.]

well thats pretty much what myself and onemoremile had said. sport springs and bilsteins would be more forgiving than a race setup, and sport springs and konis would likely be just about stock sport ride quality. a race setup and konis i would hope to be a little stiffer.

i know the VAST majority of the guys on here run bilsteins, i have just heard that the konis perform just as well but are more forgiving...still havent decided on struts yet.

?

[onemoremile]

If anyone wants Bilsteins I'll trade mine for Konis in a heartbeat.

[.Mad Hatter.]

onemoremile any shots of your car with the club specs on?

[Mike@PureMS]

Vogtland Club Specs lower the car .8" from factory sport height. They are far from LOW.
H&R Race are by far a much lower spring.
The Club Spec from Vogtland is our own customer application. Only available from us for the B5A4 setup.

[.Mad Hatter.]

of the club specs are .8", what are the vogtland sports?

[Mike@PureMS]

Sports and Clubspecs lower the same amount.
The difference is the Clubspec has a higher rate spring in the rear, better suited to allow the car to rotate better.

[.Mad Hatter.]

ah gotcha...

if i buy new, im coming to you guys (im the user on 4T who commented about you guys not shipping to Canada...then I found out you do)

please tell you dont ship UPS...

[.Mad Hatter.]

ps, that rolling shot you posted is the one i remember from the ad on 4T posted quite a while ago...i remember loving the stance in the rear.

[onemoremile]

Vogtland Club Specs lower the car .8" from factory sport height. They are far from LOW.
H&R Race are by far a much lower spring.
The Club Spec from Vogtland is our own customer application. Only available from us for the B5A4 setup.

The S4 was lower than that. Maybe a half inch or so. The car dropped from stock which was silly high in the front and not too bad in the rear. With the Vogtlands and Konis the rear was tucking some tread.

This is a shot of my car four years ago before we cut the frozen coilover perches off and raised it to a reasonable height. The S4 was maybe 1/4" lower in the rear and pretty damn low in the front. I should have taken measurements before and after but we just tore into it and started swapping parts. They may have been Vogtland Sports but I know they were Vogtlands. I think I pointed him to your site last year and he got the springs, Konis, and H-Sport bars.

[biketsai]

H&R Race on stock sport struts

[onemoremile]

It looks damn good in a picture but I couldn't imagine daily driving the H&R race springs. I found the car to be as quick around a track at close to their sport height anyway. In my pic above the car is about 1/4" too low in the rear and maybe a touch high in the front. The garage is Trackside at Gingerman and we had an open track to tweak, play, tweak, play, etc. until satisfied. We busted out the corner scales and toe strings and made a day of it. The only other cars turning laps were a 911tt and formula mazda. The 911tt was dead consistent and I was only a couple seconds behind a car that stomped me by more than a couple seconds on both of the straights.

[.Mad Hatter.]

so...im ordering tomorrow.

bilstein sports for sure, and either of these 2 springs.

pros of vogtland club specs=great performance, forgiving for a DD
pros of H&Rs race=a little lower, so visually a little nicer. cons=harsh for a DD

basically, which would perform better on an autoslalom track?

[Nebone]

I wouldn't expect a major difference between the two different springs. The Bilsteins and H&R go well together. AWE sells that as a kit for a reason. I have it and I feel as it should have came stock on the car.

[.Mad Hatter.]

they dont sell it as a kit, they sell the sports with billies as a kit. in terms of performance you mean you wouldnt expect a huge difference?

[eurotecknik]

No one here has Bilstein + Vogtland club specs combo? I have it, and I love the drop and handling. Like in the previous post was stated, club and sport lower the same height but the difference is in the rear stiffness. Unfortunatly I don't have a pic of my car, but I can snap a few if needed. I would recomend the Vogtland club vs. the H&R cuz if you are not EXTRA careful you will need to replace your front bumper later on!!! <<< Just a thought, not true for everyone!

[somebody5788]

That's what she said.

lol....


I am on Vogtland sports w/ stock sport suspension. I am planning on upgrading to bilsteins soon though as the ride is feeling a bit bouncy after 3k miles of driving on them. The shocks I have do have 140k on them though so thats probably why. The ride high is a little higher then i'd like. 2.5 fingers between stock 16" tire and fender on the front and 2 in the back. Though it was definitely noticeably lower. Here are some pictures of the setup w/ 19's. I'll get pix of 18's pretty soon I just need to sandblast and paint my rims. I bought them from Purems and they were delivered pretty fast.

[Nebone]

they dont sell it as a kit, they sell the sports with billies as a kit. in terms of performance you mean you wouldnt expect a huge difference?

Yes they do. It's a very good and tested configuration. What do you mean performance? 2 mph faster on exist ramps? Minor differences in springs will not yield huge results. Go for a tested setup and you will like it. If you plan to race your car then go for a more adjustable setup like coils and adjustable sway bars. Bilstein sports are very good overall dampers tho.

[flynnr]

where did you get your vogtlans springs? anyone know a good, cheap, reliable place to pick these up?? let me know thanks!!!

[.Mad Hatter.]

probably PureMS is your only option

[wesleyfbm]

just go with the h&r springs you wont be dissappointed. im on neuspeed race springs with stock non sport struts and the ride isnt too bad. its my DD aswell. also drive bout 600 miles a week, so they are holding up well.

go with the race!

[flynnr]

got any pcs wesley?

[somebody5788]

Forgot to update w/ my suspension and 18's. Again Vogtland Sport spring on stock shocks. Bought them on Purems.com

[ianbis]

which springs do i want?

from what i can tell, the h&rs will lower the car a little more, maybe half an inch more. ive heard nothing but good things about the vogtlands, and of course the h&rs always get great reviews.

as of right now they will be going on OE sport struts, i will likely upgrade to konis later on. I would love the ride height dropped a bit but i want the best performance spring i can get. the car is daily driven but i doubt the race springs would make it un driveable...just looking for some feedback and maybe pics.

If you live in NJ or a state that cares for the roadways like we do then skip on the H&R race.

BTW if you are interested in H&R race springs I'll gladly sell mine to you. [email protected]

[.Mad Hatter.]

ive already ordered coils...just anxiously awaiting their arrival

[Militant-Grunt]

No one here has Bilstein + Vogtland club specs combo? I have it, and I love the drop and handling. Like in the previous post was stated, club and sport lower the same height but the difference is in the rear stiffness. Unfortunatly I don't have a pic of my car, but I can snap a few if needed. I would recomend the Vogtland club vs. the H&R cuz if you are not EXTRA careful you will need to replace your front bumper later on!!! <<< Just a thought, not true for everyone!

Sounds good, I'm thinking of doing Club Specs + Koni's, wonder if anyone on here has that setup, I don't need the adjustability of coilovers (got to realign everytime anyway)