School me on differences between the A4 and S4

[erode]

If you care to help, I'm trying to decipher differences in A4s and S4s. I'm trying to make my 99 A4 look a little less crappy. It has a lot of miles on it and I'm trying to revitalize it and I much prefer the S4 look.

So, my first question is.. is there any difference in terms of what the A4 can fit for wheels? Or are the bodies basically identical?

If anybody just wants to put in their random things they've learned, I am ready to be edumacated.

[Jibberific]

they're the same, but different

[Jibberific]

but seriously though the engine and transmission are probably the biggest differences, people bolt s4 bumpers right up to their a4s all the time. visually the only thing that sets them apart right away is the window trim, which is black or chrome on a4s and polished on s4s. the front bumper is larger on the s4 and would have body matching sideskirts whereas on an a4 they are plain black.

[slopoke]

rims are interchangeable

[Siena]

Visual differences between A4 and S4:

1) Side skirts
2) Door lower mouldings
3) Rear bumper
4) Front bumper
5) Grille
6) Foglamps
7) Bumper grilles
8) Wheels
9) Brake calipers / discs - only visible if you're actively looking.

* Worth noting, S4 was never available with the old-style glass headlamps. They were originally offered with the 2-piece polycarbonate units, then later from '99 - '01 with single-piece items.

[A4Quattro > all]

Sell your car. save money. buy s4.

[317ssayzarc]

Sell your car. save money. buy s4.

Sure

[djwimbo]

Visual differences between A4 and S4:

1) Side skirts
2) Door lower mouldings
3) Rear bumper
4) Front bumper
5) Grille
6) Foglamps
7) Bumper grilles
8) Wheels
9) Brake calipers / discs - only visible if you're actively looking.

* Worth noting, S4 was never available with the old-style glass headlamps. They were originally offered with the 2-piece polycarbonate units, then later from '99 - '01 with single-piece items.

What he said, + S4's are "facelift" style only. Meaning the doors are slightly different, different body side moldings (the lower moldings are different as well, but that's already mentioned), they have the updated taillights, auto leveling HID's, the suspension is similar BUT the spindles up front are aluminum vs steel (A4). CV joints are larger, transmission is an 01E 6 speed w/ 4.11:1 gears vs A4 01A 5 speed with 3.89:1 gears
Interior, the "wood" trim is modeled after walnut I believe. The seats are different, instrument cluster, shifter knob obviously, I honestly don't know about the headliner, but I know that people swap them.

I think that's about it.

... IMHO I wouldn't buy an S4 though, make an A4 look like one, and build and engine that'll own 75% of S4's.

[Das General]

Interior wise there are a few differences, and even more so, depending on what year A4 you are looking at.

Seats, trims, dash lighting.

BTW the S4 calipers are bigger.

And the trunk. I want an older style A4 trunk. Someone trade with me!

[erode]

Interior wise there are a few differences, and even more so, depending on what year A4 you are looking at.

Seats, trims, dash lighting.

BTW the S4 calipers are bigger.

And the trunk. I want an older style A4 trunk. Someone trade with me!

Well I hope you guys don't hate on me..but I just bought my A4 2.8Qm just for the sake of having a reliable winter monster. It has 190k on it and I got a good deal. It has some rust spots on the bootlid and the bottom of the doors so I found a donor car to replace them instead of repainting ..for now.

I have absolutely no desire in creating an actual S4-competing car. I have a 96 M3 that is my trackrat that is far more capable than I could make this A4. I just want it to be a smooth ride that doesn't look so dated.

I bought a set of S4 Xenon housings w/ HIDs & ballasts.

I want to do S4 front bumper, rear bumper, and the sideskirts, but I was unsure if it was s direct-bolton since I have seen a lot of S4 bumper supports for sale. I thought maybe the actual bumper support was a required item. I have Volcano Mica so I am not worried about what color it is.. it can be all pitted up for all I care. They are just hard to find. I am searching on eBay & AZ Classifieds.. nothing yet! The sideskirts are another issue I know nothing about.

Tonight I blacked out my chrome trim with spray on Plasti-dip. We'll see how it turns out when it dries.

I have been looking at B6 S4 wheels since they are the same cool style as the B5 S4's Avus wheels but larger from what I can tell. I assume those, as well as RS4 / Celebrations will fit without requiring modifications?

Oh..and can somebody tell me why an RS4 grille is $200? I come from the BMW world where parts for my E36 are made OEM quality and CHEAP..if it was made by a vendor like DDM Tuning it would be $50, not $200. Finding a used RS4 grille is just as bad, people want $100-150 for a used and chipped grille.

[djwimbo]

You are correct on the wheels. The B6's are not only larger by 1", they actually appear larger b/c the spokes extend closer to the lip of the wheel.

Great purchase on the A4. I actually miss my 2.8L now, even if it's slow.

Slam it and get some nice wheels. Just keep it clean.

[Seerlah]

The prices on the RS4 grill jumped an incredible 100%(+) a couple months ago.

[erode]

You are correct on the wheels. The B6's are not only larger by 1", they actually appear larger b/c the spokes extend closer to the lip of the wheel.

Great purchase on the A4. I actually miss my 2.8L now, even if it's slow.

Slam it and get some nice wheels. Just keep it clean.

Cool, I really like the B6 Avus wheels. They seem to be fairly priced for OEM 18's.. Find a decent number of them for sale for around $600 w/ tires. That's on my list.

So in summation ... my tentative mod list is as such (for my early 99 A4 sport)

-RS4 grille
-blacked trim
-15% tint (i actually have photosensitivity issues, I need it that dark)
-debadged bootlid, but the rings are blacked out
-B6 S4 wheels
-B5 S4 Xenons
-if i can find them for a fair price, S4 bumpers/skirts
-a drop down the line
-SSK because the throw & slop are EPIC


Am I steering clear of rice? :)

[djwimbo]

Am I steering clear of rice? :)

sounds good so far. I don't know about the B6 wheels that much, but $600 doesn't sound too bad. They're heavy as hell though.

Here's another option if you're doing a diff grille, it's considerably cheaper.

ECS Tuning: Badgeless grille

[AudiA4_20T]

Interior wise there are a few differences, and even more so, depending on what year A4 you are looking at.

Seats, trims, dash lighting.

BTW the S4 calipers are bigger.

And the trunk. I want an older style A4 trunk. Someone trade with me!

are u serious? buy mine I have 2 for sale

[erode]

sounds good so far. I don't know about the B6 wheels that much, but $600 doesn't sound too bad. They're heavy as hell though.

Here's another option if you're doing a diff grille, it's considerably cheaper.

ECS Tuning: Badgeless grille

Hmm that grill is better. But the mesh is the best looking. I do like the badge on it though.. I think.



Btw, whats different about pre-facelift bootlids?

[speedydragon]

badgeless grille on audis, imo, are ugly :[

[maxspeed]

2 cylinders, another turbo, bigger brakes, .9 more liters, 106 more hp, bigger brakes, another gear with better gearing and 20 grand(new).

nuff said.

[Militant-Grunt]

2 cylinders, another turbo, bigger brakes, .9 more liters, 106 more hp, bigger brakes, another gear with better gearing and 20 grand(new).

nuff said.

You forgot to add a lot less reliable lol.

[djwimbo]

You forgot to add a lot less reliable lol.

and heavier.

IIRC List price on each turbo is >$1200 too, obviously depending on supplier.

For $1200 I can almost get a 3071. My sig line is derived from my belief that S4's are unnecessary for either a DD or track car. If you looking to make >800bhp, then yes, you need the displacement. Otherwise, it's not worth the anguish and money.

... maxspeed: you mentioned bigger brakes twice. A good set of pads and simple upgrades will make an A4 brake just as well as an S4.

[oneohone]

I think its nice to have best of both worlds

[nrowensby]

I don't think the badgeless grill looks that bad, it's up to you though, oh well... my car is ricey as hell

[oneohone]

^^ I like it.

[Siena]

The prices on the RS4 grill jumped an incredible 100%(+) a couple months ago.

I sell RS4 grilles...

[nrowensby]

I don't think the RS4 grills look good until you get the matching bumpers or honeycomb lower grill mesh... The RS4 grill mesh clashes with the A4 lower grills.

[Siena]

I don't think the badgeless grill looks that bad, it's up to you though, oh well... my car is ricey as hell

Grrr! I want your wheels!

Let me know where you park at night...

[maxspeed]

The prices on the RS4 grill jumped an incredible 100%(+) a couple months ago.

makes sense, the last b5 RS4 was made over 6 years ago at this point, why would they keep making exterior styling pieces for a car they havent made in over half a decade and barely made any of anyway?

[nrowensby]

Grrr! I want your wheels!

Let me know where you park at night...

http://www.audizine.com/classifieds/...ate=1216163553

...not sure how much it would cost to ship over the big pond though </threadjack>

[A4Quattro > all]

Sure

well if your going to dump mad money into your a4..I'd say save your money(not mod your a4)and look for an S. That's just me tho

[maxspeed]

well if your going to dump mad money into your a4..I'd say save your money(not mod your a4)and look for an S. That's just me tho

why? its practically universally acknowledged that the 1.8t can and will make more power than s4... for cheaper, and handle better, and stop faster, need i go on?

[317ssayzarc]

well if your going to dump mad money into your a4..I'd say save your money(not mod your a4)and look for an S. That's just me tho

I've been involved in both... I can't stand working on S4's... I like being able to change my spool and power in 15 mins (turbo)... I like being able to do my plugs in 10 mins... I like being able to completely build my engine for 8K to the best possible (or DAMN close)... I like 30mpg... I like being light enough to not constantly break rear diffs... I like being able to have my motor out, tore down, and reassembled in 2 days (not including the head)... I can go on forever, but for 95%+ of people, the A4 is better... If you are shooting for over 800whp on C16 and still a daily if needed, I'd look into a S4 or VRT swap...

[erode]

I have a 2.8 so the 1.8t vs S4 talk doesn't really affect me at all. I could care less about making it fast but I guess it helps to know that there is a serious grudge between 1.8t and 2.7t owners.. haha.

[317ssayzarc]

I have a 2.8 so the 1.8t vs S4 talk doesn't really affect me at all. I could care less about making it fast but I guess it helps to know that there is a serious grudge between 1.8t and 2.7t owners.. haha.

Not really... I drive both weekly

It just comes down to preference

[djwimbo]

Not really... I drive both weekly

It just comes down to preference

I'm with Jake on this one. ... My sig line represents my opinion on that subject.

[tdn]

Another differance is in the name, one has an S the other an A.

Don't even get me started on the pronunciation.

[Skidder]

Are the rear diffs the same? If they aren't, are they interchangeable?

[erode]

Another differance is in the name, one has an S the other an A.

Don't even get me started on the pronunciation.

HAHA.....wut

[djwimbo]

Are the rear diffs the same? If they aren't, are they interchangeable?

different gear ratios

A4 = 3.89:1
S4 = 4.11:1

The A4 V6 trans has longer gears internally, I got confused on that subject once. I used to think the 1.8's had the 4.11's. They do not.

[Siena]

Yes, 1,8T has higher ratio final drive.

I'm lucky in that respect - my 12V QS is 4,11:1, perfect for when I install my 2001 S4 6 speed next spring.

[Stampy]

S4 = longer penis
A4 = thicker penis

They can accomplish the same thing. They just take different roads to get there.