Stock B5 Suspension...harsh?

[GunSupplier]

When I first bought my S, I thought the ride was great. The stock suspension, I thought, was sporty, yet comfortable. Nowadays, though, after about a year and half and 8,000 miles later, my opinion has changed a lot, and I increasingly get pissed at how harsh it is over certain bumps and dips.

The main "harshness" occurs when there is an abrupt "sharp" bump in the road, such as an expansion joint, or a missing chunk of asphalt in the road, or bad road patch jobs. Not gentle dips, it has to be very abrupt.

A while back, I got a ride in a lowered Stage 3 S4, which has sport Bilstein shocks + H&R spring combo, and the ride was very noticeably BETTER than my stock setup! Huh?!

So, my point is: What the heck is up with my stock suspension? Have I just finally gotten used to it and notice everything now? I still have the stock shocks (75,000 miles on the car). Do those need replacing? I mean, the ride is controlled, I don't have excessive roll, and it passes the "push down on the car" test, so that led me to doubt it was the shocks....

Over certain less than perfect roads, I feel like I'm in an Evo, not an S4. There is a harshness that reverberates all the way to the seats. It feels like the car is taking a big hit when in fact I'm just driving over a manhole cover.

***Keep in mind, I'm not talking about clunking or anything like that.*** My upper and lower control arms were replaced about 400 miles ago, and I immediately felt the difference. No clunking anytime.

Any thoughts? I'm sure some of you guys out there still have the stock suspension setup? How does it feel to you? Everyone is welcome to chime in. I'd love to hear what the ride is like for you lowered guys, too.

[mholme]

What kind of shape are your tires in

[GunSupplier]

What kind of shape are your tires in

Heh, forgot that someone might ask this. They are in great shape. Continental ContiExtremeContacts on the stock 17" wheels. They have about 6000 miles on them.

Oh, and speaking of tires, I noticed today that both fronts are now showing signs of mild feathering on the outer, external tread. So, feathering usually = Alignment needed to set toe-in correctly, right? Could it also mean something else....?

[laxman851]

Get lighter rims, unsprung weight should help with this aswell!

[jukesandz]

I'm on stock suspension, and I cringe every time I go over a bump on a crappy road. Actually, I also get some clunking. Is that caused by crapped out control arms?

[GunSupplier]

I'm on stock suspension, and I cringe every time I go over a bump on a crappy road. Actually, I also get some clunking. Is that caused by crapped out control arms?

Yes! A fellow stock suspension-er! I'm guessing you feel that 'hint of harshness' in the stock suspension that I do.

The clunking is the control arms. When you replace them, do the uppers and lowers at the same time. The shop I went to only changed the lowers the first time around. I took it for a drive around the block after the work was done, and I thought the clunking was gone. WRONG! After a day, it was worse than before, so I had to go back into the shop and get the uppers replaced later, doing the labor all over again. Oh, and get the Meyle or Mahle control arms. They are generally considered to be top-quality.

[dcc236]

After 8 years and 75,000miles, your stock suspension is probably shot. Not to mention your CA and tre's won't be too flash either.

[MacDaddy]

hows your tire pressure? I set mine to 40-42PSI up front and its considerably harsher than 38PSI.

I do agree the stock suspension is a bit harsh even at 38PSI, the reason the lowered cars ride seemed better was probably because the bilsteins are valved differently and allow the springs to react to the road imperfections more quickly. IMO, the shock absorber(the name implies that it absorbs shocks, but it actually only prevents excessive oscillation by the spring, and the spring absorbs the shock of the road) makes a bigger difference to ride quality than the spring does.

[GunSupplier]

hows your tire pressure? I set mine to 40-42PSI up front and its considerably harsher than 38PSI.

Yeah, when I ran it at 38, it was pretty damn harsh. I keep it at ~35 now, just so the ride doesn't kill me. (I think the sticker recommends 36 front/34 rear..?)

After 8 years and 75,000miles, your stock suspension is probably shot. Not to mention your CA and tre's won't be too flash either.

Yeah, I guess so. Whenever I get a ride with someone else in their car, I try and note the difference in ride quality, and other cars are significantly less harsh over bumps and crappy roads. Granted, my friends don't drive sport sedans, so it isn't apples to apples, but even so, I'm suspicious of the way mine reacts to certain bumps. By the way, I mentioned above that my control arms have been replaced. Haven't done tie-rod-ends, but those wouldn't really be affecting the way I feel bumps, would they?

Funny anecdote:

I remember watching a Top Gear episode (I think when Clarkson was reviewing the B7 RS4...?) and he mentioned that every S/RS Audi he had driven prior to the B7 RS4 had quite bad/harsh stock suspension. I remember laughing it off at the time, I mean, afterall it's Clarkson. I'm not really laughing it up anymore.

[AB18]

If you guys think stock suspension is rough, then id advise against c/os. I have the vogtlands, and there great for spirited driving, but they are rough in town.

[MacDaddy]

Funny anecdote:

I remember watching a Top Gear episode (I think when Clarkson was reviewing the B7 RS4...?) and he mentioned that every S/RS Audi he had driven prior to the B7 RS4 had quite bad/harsh stock suspension. I remember laughing it off at the time, I mean, afterall it's Clarkson. I'm not really laughing it up anymore.

I liked his B6 review of the S4 when he said all audis have "wolly steering" which i would say mine does

[dak360rt]

Stock suspension.....same thing

I remember when I first got my S4 like 9 months ago I thought it was the smoothest and quietest car around....now I feel like its kinda harsh and the interior is loud, all windows up and sunroof closed with cover there is still tons of wind noise

Btw my old car was a lowered (cut springs) mustang. Test driving the S4 I thought it was so quiet I could hear my heart beating, but now......

[Mike@PureMS]

After 8 years and 75,000miles, your stock suspension is probably shot. Not to mention your CA and tre's won't be too flash either.

2nd.

Your shocks are toast and causing the harshness in your ride.

[GunSupplier]

Hmm, OK. Thanks for the help guys. I'll look into getting my shocks changed at some point within the end of the year with some Bilsteins. (might as well get the H&R sport springs at that point, too.)

[MacDaddy]

Hmm, OK. Thanks for the help guys. I'll look into getting my shocks changed at some point within the end of the year with some Bilsteins. (might as well get the H&R sport springs at that point, too.)

I'd rather get a stasis setup, Not just because i like koni's better, but the shock/spring are designed to work together. I just don't advocate willy-nilly raising and lowering your car with coil overs and saying your alignment will stay the exact same, because it won't, anyone who has done or alignments will tell you the same thing, anyone who hasn't will say i'm wrong "because this one time..."

[GunSupplier]

I'd rather get a stasis setup, Not just because i like koni's better, but the shock/spring are designed to work together.

I'm not really sure that I will spring (no pun intended) for a coil-over kit, though.

For a set of Bilsteins + H&Rs, I'll pay: ~$700-$750
For most coilovers, I'll pay: ~$1100-$1400

I don't really need the adjustability of a coil-over kit, and I can see myself NEVER even touching it. The novelty of raising/lowering is great, but I live at college, and only go back home (which is an apartment) about every 2 months. I will NEVER track the car, and truly don't need ultimate performance.

Oh, and about Koni's vs. Bilstein, I've actually heard that in terms of ride-quality, the Bilsteins are significantly better. People say that the Koni's tend to be almost uncomfortably stiff.

AWE claims that the H&R Sports + Bilstein Sports are ideally matched, so I'm not too worried. Although, we'll see which way I go when I actually have the dough to replace them.

[00s4slvr]

I 2nd that im going to probably get the bilstein and h&r sports from awe :P

[kavalaris]

just to put it out there about the bilstein and H&R combo, i got it on my car and it turned out to be super slammed to the point where i need to get my front fenders rolled cause i rub on everything. and i mean everything. i also have 235s on 18s so that probably contributed a little. the set up is great and i love it, but you might find that you are lower than you expected. not sure why though.

[GunSupplier]

just to put it out there about the bilstein and H&R combo, i got it on my car and it turned out to be super slammed to the point where i need to get my front fenders rolled cause i rub on everything. and i mean everything. i also have 235s on 18s so that probably contributed a little. the set up is great and i love it, but you might find that you are lower than you expected. not sure why though.

Wow, really? On the AWE site, it says: 1.4" front, 1.3" rear.

That's really odd. Are you sure you didn't get race springs (instead of sports) or something..??

[kavalaris]

im pretty sure. if i did i didnt pay for them. and i definitly got at least a bit more of a drop then what they claim cause my fronts are tucking. not really complaining though cause im happy with the set up, its great, i just need to roll the fenders.

[MacDaddy]

For a set of Bilsteins + H&Rs, I'll pay: ~$700-$750
For most coilovers, I'll pay: ~$1100-$1400

wait till they go on sale, for a couple extra hundred dollars its worth it even if you don't plan on adjusting them IMO.

Oh, and about Koni's vs. Bilstein, I've actually heard that in terms of ride-quality, the Bilsteins are significantly better. People say that the Koni's tend to be almost uncomfortably stiff.

I've heard the opposite, and I actually installed a koni suspension package on a car before and the ride quality was much better than stock despite the springs being significantly stiffer, and of course its much more enjoyable driving something that isn't flustered by bumps and dips in the road, heavy braking, aggressive steering or a combination of the four. Koni's are also lifetime guaranteed, Eg. they will last longer than the typical 60,000 miles/100,000KM

AWE claims that the H&R Sports + Bilstein Sports are ideally matched, so I'm not too worried. Although, we'll see which way I go when I actually have the dough to replace them.

Unless AWE has Bilstein sell them shocks with unique valving specific to the H&R spring, I'd be skeptical. Someones opinion may be that its Ideally matched, but their opinion will most likely differ from yours.

I don't want to give you the impression i hate Bilstein, I was thinking of buying a set myself when i first got my car, but there were other things that needed attention first. I would do some more research, see if you can get a ride in someones S4 with a aftermarket suspension setup, etc. 1.5" drop is pretty significant, the audi is already quite low as is keep in mind.

[GunSupplier]

Unless AWE has Bilstein sell them shocks with unique valving specific to the H&R spring, I'd be skeptical. Someones opinion may be that its Ideally matched, but their opinion will most likely differ from yours.

Quoting directly from AWE's site:
"Bilstein has developed a specific shock for use with the S4. Much better control of body movement, more controlled and faster turn-in, and a comfortable ride have us convinced!"

So, I mean, I guess they are valved for the S4. A quick part-number search on Bilstein's site does indeed bring up specific "S4 shocks", but I doubt these are valved specifically for the H&R sport springs. Maybe if Alex@AWE sees this, he'll chime in.

I don't want to give you the impression i hate Bilstein, I was thinking of buying a set myself when i first got my car, but there were other things that needed attention first. I would do some more research, see if you can get a ride in someones S4 with a aftermarket suspension setup, etc. 1.5" drop is pretty significant, the audi is already quite low as is keep in mind.

No, I don't mind at all. Thanks a lot for the opinions. I love hearing stuff like this from you guys. It really helps me make educated decisions.

You are completely right about the 1.5" drop slightly exceeding my personal limit for a daily. Yeah, I know some guys around here drive their S4s completely slammed, and I'm not as hardcore as them [whatever ] but I really don't need that sort of stress.

I drive around in Cleveland (read: crappy roads + snow), then also go back home to NYC (read: crappy roads + potholes + steel plates on the road + huge, ungodly high manhole covers).

Having barely 2 inches of ground clearance with the drop would really not be fun. I'd have nightmares about destroying my oil pan/ripping off my exhaust. I also don't want to be having a panic-attack every time I need to drive up a driveway. My ideal drop would be 1.0", just to get that perfect amount of wheelgap. From my not-too-extensive research, I've noticed that many coilover kits (H&R for sure)only offer 1.5-1.6"+ which is waaaaay too low for just a baseline for me. Not sure about the others like Vogtland/Stasis/Koni.

Hmmm...I wonder.

[MacDaddy]

I've only bottomed out once, it pushed my exhaust against the heatshield and the heatshield into the driveline, not a very comforting noise, and i've scraped my front bumper numerous times coming in and out of parking lots. thats with my bone stock ride height, so i'm pretty turned off from lowering the car.

I was thinking if i do anything to lower the car it would be about 1/2" and (i know i'll get some raised eyebrows or worse) putting on a tire with a bigger sidewall, like a 50 series, make the ride a little nicer and fill up the wheel well a little more, instead of just making the gap smaller on the top of the wheel, it makes it smaller all around the wheel arch.
I did that on a previous car, wen't from 175 65 14's to 205 60 14's it looked much better having wheels that took up the space rather than wheels which looked far too small for the car.
my speedo was out by a bit, but not by enough to not tell if i was speeding or not.