K04 choices

[dextrek]

I am looking to buy a K04 turbo from serveral different sources. One is a local guy selling a brand new KKK K04-015 turbo for $500. The other ones are no name brands (A2R) from the ebay for $350 - $450 with 1 year warranty. Anybody ever bought a k04 from ebay before? any feedbacks?

Also, I noticed that the cheaper k04 has an internal wastegate. What is the difference between internal and external wastegate? and which one would you prefer? What does the stock k03 turbo have? Internal or external?

BTW, I decided to go with the K04 route because:

1. I have a tiptronic,
2. I want to sell my car soon and get a MANUAL B7 S-line, and
3. It's my daily driver and don't want to spend too much on it. My Porche (weekend ride) is the bigger money pit.

[widgget]

K04 is one of the worst things you can do to a tiptronic.
K04 = TQ, TQ is what will kill your tiptronic.

don't mess with that shit on ebay, it's cheap crap that will fall apart.

[phantom b6]

The k04s on ebay don't look like they'll fit. If you look at a pic compared to a pic of a stock k03 they're totally different.

[CyberPMG]

Don't bother with upgrading the turbo. You've already stated that you want to sell it soon for a B7 S-Line. If you're set on this plan, then don't spend the extra money in modding this one - especially if it's a mod that others don't want. Save that money towards mods on the B7.

[actlsub9]

the cheaper k04 has an internal wastegate.

The correct k04 has an internal wastegate.

[Coyote USP]

x2 for what widgget said, unless you feel like upgrading your torque converter or having to rebuild your transmission. Also listen to Cyber; if you are planning on selling soon it makes no sense to upgrade. BUT, if you're set on going bigger, go GTRS, more power and smoother torque

[kwik_shift]

k03 has internal wastegate just like the K04

[AudiA4_20T]

There have been plenty of K04 TIP cars... you guys are rediculous, just because he doesn't want a BT, the K04 will work fine on TIP

with that being said, if your going to sell the car, why drop $2k+ into it?

[widgget]

k03 has internal wastegate just like the K04

K03 and K04 look the same externally. the ebay K04s won't work, they have the 5 bold exhaust side not to mention the just look like plastic. only a KKK K04-015 will work in your car without doing some overboard custom work to make it fit.

again, it's going to beat the hell out of your transmission.

ether wait and get he car you want or step up to a GTRS that won't spike the TQ as bad. if you are going to get a new car i personally recommend you don't touch the one you have since modding the car will only make it harder to sell and in most cases lowers the resale value.

[widgget]

There have been plenty of K04 TIP cars... you guys are rediculous, just because he doesn't want a BT, the K04 will work fine on TIP

with that being said, if your going to sell the car, why drop $2k+ into it?

it will work but it is much harder on the tq converter then most other options.
why spend $2k+, get a very small power increase, and run a harsh tq spike when you can spend $3k+, get a very nice power increase, and not beat on the tranny as much? if you don't have the money you don't have it, i understand that but ether don't do it or save up until you can.

for the money and the increase it gives the K04 is a half-assed mod in my own opinion (Yes i ran one for over a year).

[boy412]

I am looking to buy a K04 turbo from serveral different sources. One is a local guy selling a brand new KKK K04-015 turbo for $500. The other ones are no name brands (A2R) from the ebay for $350 - $450 with 1 year warranty. Anybody ever bought a k04 from ebay before? any feedbacks?

Those eBay turbos are dodgy. Also, a new one for $500 seems cheap to me. But if its areal KKK04-15 than that's a good price! Most of the ones I've seen for sale are between $700 and $900.

Good luck...

[dextrek]

Thanks for the feedback...I guess I'll stay away from the ebay.
As for the K04 decision, now I am uncertain...I did find a good deal on the turbo for $500 brand new. But sounds like K04 was not ment to be for tiptronic.

[KPC1.8TQuat]

If you are selling the car there is no point in doing a turbo.

[dextrek]

If you are selling the car there is no point in doing a turbo.

I guess...but it will take me forever to find me a B7 Sline Titnium 6MT (preferably in white) and I hate to see the exhaust of BMWs and Mercedes while waiting for one.

[Ill 3.0]

I guess...but it will take me forever to find me a B7 Sline Titnium 6MT (preferably in white) and I hate to see the exhaust of BMWs and Mercedes while waiting for one.

You'll still see those exhausts with a K04

[B8Buckeye]

i have a k04 on my TIP. besides the lean & mileage issues that i'm experiencing (perhaps an APR problem?!?), i have been very happy with it. i think those who are nay-sayers on the k04 are maybe overstating that position, but the argument does have merit. the k04 adds some power over 1+ and the torque is slightly smoother. there are better options though.

i have been stage 1, stage 1+, added FMIC, moved to k04; and i'm now getting ready for GTRS. when i started down this path, i had no plans to go bigger than 1+ because i didn't feel like doing all the supporting mods. then i had issues with my k03 on 1+ (hello, APR??) and needed to replace it. i decided to go k04 at that time because it was a one-for-one upgrade. if i would've had the funds to do exhaust, brakes, and GTRS at that time, i would have. instead i have a k04 with lean issues out the a$$.

my simplest recommendation for you would be to go to the big injector file. after my experience and reading all that i have, i cannot in good conscience recommend APR tuning for 1+ or k04, though. revo or giac do NOT seem to have the same lean problem that APR cars are having. the big injector file will give you some bang for your buck without having to drop an additional $700 on a k04 that will not give a ton more increase. then if you decide you want to keep the B6 and make it track down M3s, get the supporting mods & go GTRS. your problem, like mine, is that you already have APR tuning and it will cost at least $500-700 to make the move to revo/giac. i will say this, though - at APR's suggestion i have put in a new MAF, O2 sensor & ECT sensor trying to get to the bottom of my problems. none of that has worked and i have spent more than the cost of switching software on the suggested (and ineffective) fixes. believe me, i wish i had gone the software route first.

that's just my opinion. the rest is up to you.

[widgget]

i have a k04 on my TIP. besides the lean & mileage issues that i'm experiencing (perhaps an APR problem?!?), i have been very happy with it. i think those who are nay-sayers on the k04 are maybe overstating that position, but the argument does have merit. the k04 adds some power over 1+ and the torque is slightly smoother. there are better options though.

i have been stage 1, stage 1+, added FMIC, moved to k04; and i'm now getting ready for GTRS. when i started down this path, i had no plans to go bigger than 1+ because i didn't feel like doing all the supporting mods. then i had issues with my k03 on 1+ (hello, APR??) and needed to replace it. i decided to go k04 at that time because it was a one-for-one upgrade. if i would've had the funds to do exhaust, brakes, and GTRS at that time, i would have. instead i have a k04 with lean issues out the a$$.

my simplest recommendation for you would be to go to the big injector file. after my experience and reading all that i have, i cannot in good conscience recommend APR tuning for 1+ or k04, though. revo or giac do NOT seem to have the same lean problem that APR cars are having. the big injector file will give you some bang for your buck without having to drop an additional $700 on a k04 that will not give a ton more increase. then if you decide you want to keep the B6 and make it track down M3s, get the supporting mods & go GTRS. your problem, like mine, is that you already have APR tuning and it will cost at least $500-700 to make the move to revo/giac. i will say this, though - at APR's suggestion i have put in a new MAF, O2 sensor & ECT sensor trying to get to the bottom of my problems. none of that has worked and i have spent more than the cost of switching software on the suggested (and ineffective) fixes. believe me, i wish i had gone the software route first.

that's just my opinion. the rest is up to you.

the APR to Revo story seems to be quite common, i was right in that boat too. had APR 1+, and then the APR K04 file. had to switch over to revo ect ect ect... waste of time and money, should have skipped the K04 and went GTRS (even though, like you i went K04 because my K03 died and lack of money to go bigger at the time), hopefully the OP will learn from our mistakes.

[b6onboost]

I think you are overestimating the B7. I've been in Stage 1 B7s, Stage 1+ and K04 B6s, and the difference bewteen the three isn't really that much. Jump in a BT A4 or modded S4 and that is a night and day difference.

To get the most out of that K04 you'll need an exhaust, intercooler, ect. Why spend that much if you plan to sell? Just go 1+, that will add some power and might hold you over.

I guess...but it will take me forever to find me a B7 Sline Titnium 6MT (preferably in white) and I hate to see the exhaust of BMWs and Mercedes while waiting for one.

[flyinb501]

I guess...but it will take me forever to find me a B7 Sline Titnium 6MT (preferably in white) and I hate to see the exhaust of BMWs and Mercedes while waiting for one.

I don't think you'd be to impressed with k04 power... It's def not a fast car.

[KPC1.8TQuat]

I said it earlier, if you are selling the car don't do a turbo or anything else. Go to 1+ and stop there. I recommend GIAC for anything under a K04.

1) That extra 50 lbs of torque is a nice little kick in the pants from stock. You will get tired/bored with it quick, but it's still pretty cool.

2) People are much less likely to buy a heavily modded (turbo, exhaust, FMIC) car because they think reliability is compromised.

3) I've never understood the point of modding a car and then parting it out and going back to stock to sell it all in short order. I would only mod a car if you plan on keeping it for a very long time.

Hope this helps.

[bavaria75]

I guess...but it will take me forever to find me a B7 Sline Titnium 6MT (preferably in white) and I hate to see the exhaust of BMWs and Mercedes while waiting for one.

What makes you think on the new B7 you will not see the exhausts??? Seems like every other BMW 3 is a 335 here in CA. So you need at least a S4 or heavy mods on your 2.0T what are limited as I understand.

[dextrek]

What makes you think on the new B7 you will not see the exhausts??? Seems like every other BMW 3 is a 335 here in CA. So you need at least a S4 or heavy mods on your 2.0T what are limited as I understand.

Well, once I get a MT, then I am willing to go all out. BT, internals, suspension, and whatnot. It's not the B7 that I am relying on...it's the B7 w/ MT. I love my current B6, but the tiptronic is just not working for me.

As for widgget, buckeye, and rest of people's comment supporting BT made sense to me when I got to ride in dfaudi's GTRS set up this afternoon. He came by during lunch to install 1+ injectors for me then took me out for a spin in his GTRS set up. I guess he has some boost problems or something but still snapped my neck pretty damn hard. It's a totally different level of tq!

After this thread, I was somewhat convinced, but after riding his car...I am very certain which route I am taking. I am gonna keep my car at 1+ and hopefully a find me a titanium s line.

BTW, B6buckeye was mentioning about Big injector file...what exactly is a big injector file? Is it just the big injectors w/o the turbo upgrade? Can you elaborate on that?

[diagnosticator]

There have been plenty of K04 TIP cars... you guys are rediculous, just because he doesn't want a BT, the K04 will work fine on TIP

with that being said, if your going to sell the car, why drop $2k+ into it?

Agreed. You notice how all the Tiptronic "experts" usually don't own one?

[DenverNoob]

Agreed. You notice how all the Tiptronic "experts" usually don't own one?

thats the case a LOT of the time around here...TIPs, BT setups, etc etc.

K04 is a nice, affordable, reliable turbo with an incramental power increase....but it does make the power band a bit wider. I used one for nearly two years, and while not in a TIP I enjoyed it very much. Personally it has been done over and over and over on TIPS, and moreover the tq spike will not be as bad on a tip, boost is a bit more controlled (not always positively for performance) on a TIP car. Tranny should be just fine without a tq converter IMO.

If you can score a k04-15 for $500 (they are harder to get this time of year hence the elevated pricing), new, in box....I say go for it. Retail on those is nearly 2x that in some cases right now!

[widgget]

Agreed. You notice how all the Tiptronic "experts" usually don't own one?

?? at least 4 tiptronic owners have posted to this thread (including myself).

[KPC1.8TQuat]

Agreed. You notice how all the Tiptronic "experts" usually don't own one?

Wow, that's the first time I have taken exception to anything you have ever posted in my 3 years here.

I'm pretty sure only us TIP drivers are giving this guy advice.

[CTS Turbo]

90% of the K04's on ebay are not real K04's and they don't fit. Just because it says it fits doesn't mean its going to fit.

If anyones looking for a K04-015 I have them on sale for 895USD shipped in the Group Buy forum.

[B8Buckeye]

BTW, B6buckeye was mentioning about Big injector file...what exactly is a big injector file? Is it just the big injectors w/o the turbo upgrade? Can you elaborate on that?

the big injector file is APR stage 1+, GIAC FX or Revo Stage 2 (i think that is all correct nomenclature). it is the bigger injectors without the upgraded turbo - you keep the k03. it will cost you $200 to upgrade the software from stage 1 to 1+ from APR plus the cost of bigger injectors. if you are thinking about that, i HIGHLY recommend that you search on here for "APR lean". you will see that there are a lot of us with problems with that and/or their k04 programming.

the alternative is to switch programming to GIAC or Revo, but then you are back to square one - you have to pony up $500 for the stage 1 programming and another $200 for their respective big injector programs. so, in all you're looking at another $700 plus the cost of injectors.

to any of the above scenarios you can add a k04 turbo to your existing bigger injectors and get the k04 programming from whichever tuner for another $200 plus the cost of the turbo and install.

at that point (or really at stage 1+) you need to add an exhaust and a FMIC. this will help you breathe better and keep your power run after run. brakes & suspensions upgrades are recommended too to control the increased power.

from there it is BT and BAT. Revo is the likely winner here with GTRS on up.

sorry to be so long winded, but that will give you an idea of what you're looking at on your upgrade path. my advice is decide what turbo setup you ultimately want (and on what car) and go that route.

if i had the money back that i spent on the k04, the k04 install and the wild goose chase that i'm on trying to fix the lean codes with this APR software; i could've just gone right to the GTRS setup with Revo and been happy the whole time. learn from us. oh, and go ahead and put that setup on the B6. you'll enjoy your existing car for awhile & then you can step up to a B7 S4 or a B8 A4 and go BT on it.

[JMRQuattro]

I guess...but it will take me forever to find me a B7 Sline Titnium 6MT (preferably in white) and I hate to see the exhaust of BMWs and Mercedes while waiting for one.

then drive your porsche.... If the audi is the DD then what does it matter if you are losing 10 second street races from stop lights? Just wait till you can get the B7 and put the money into that.

[gotboost]

k04=waste of money IMO

[CTS Turbo]

k04=waste of money IMO

They are definately a better upgrade for the B5 A4s with the smaller K04 non S

[nihil]

I've been pondering the K04 thing since I got the car. I like the OEM'ish aspect, and the low spool time (I like my fun in corners), but I'm put off by the low numbers associated with it. Wanting something slightly bigger, and having a basic proficiency with integers, I started googling for a K05.

Polo Classic
11th March 04, 11:10
According to Honester/TS-racing, KKK will soon release a new turbo that will bolt on to the K03/04 manifolds. It will be called K05 and will be suitable for 300 bhp engines. If you want to fit a 1,8T engine in a Mk II/III, just get a S3 manifold and a K05. The S3 exhaust manifold is only 1730 NOK (around £130) from the dealership over here in Norway, should be cheaper in the UK as everything else is.

That's from 2004, why hasn't there been more news? I also found an article/writeup about a 200sx that sports a K05 in stage 3 dress, but it was in Italian.

Perhaps CTS Turbo can chime in with a better view of the situation? I've been eyeballing your K04 since I saw the post on Fourtitude/Vortex, but still can't get over the "blah" reception it keeps getting these days.

[CTS Turbo]

I've been pondering the K04 thing since I got the car. I like the OEM'ish aspect, and the low spool time (I like my fun in corners), but I'm put off by the low numbers associated with it. Wanting something slightly bigger, and having a basic proficiency with integers, I started googling for a K05.



That's from 2004, why hasn't there been more news? I also found an article/writeup about a 200sx that sports a K05 in stage 3 dress, but it was in Italian.

Perhaps CTS Turbo can chime in with a better view of the situation? I've been eyeballing your K04 since I saw the post on Fourtitude/Vortex, but still can't get over the "blah" reception it keeps getting these days.

If you want bigger hp than the K04 can provide, your best bet is something like an eliminator. Anything based on the K04 that spins at high shaft speeds will have troubles in the reliability department because they use such small turbine shafts, they tend to wilt when they get hot and once they wilt (like a flower) one wheel hits a housing and you're out a lot of dough. If you want more torque and a wider powerband a K04 is a good option, but if you want a substantial increase in power, a K04 is not the best option.

For the early B5 A4s with the small K03, the K04 is a good upgrade for sure, but lesser so for the A4s with the K03S.

[dextrek]

the big injector file is APR stage 1+, GIAC FX or Revo Stage 2 (i think that is all correct nomenclature). it is the bigger injectors without the upgraded turbo - you keep the k03. it will cost you $200 to upgrade the software from stage 1 to 1+ from APR plus the cost of bigger injectors. if you are thinking about that, i HIGHLY recommend that you search on here for "APR lean". you will see that there are a lot of us with problems with that and/or their k04 programming.

The APR dealer near my place is upgrading to stage 1+ for free. ($40 labor charge). I just got my injectors installed yesterday and I am getting the stage 1+ (I guess big injector file) this afternoon. I will search about the "APR lean" as well...Did you end up fixing the problem or did you just switch over to Revo?

[B8Buckeye]

The APR dealer near my place is upgrading to stage 1+ for free. ($40 labor charge). I just got my injectors installed yesterday and I am getting the stage 1+ (I guess big injector file) this afternoon. I will search about the "APR lean" as well...Did you end up fixing the problem or did you just switch over to Revo?

it's hard to beat a free upgrade - that would've cost you $700 to get to this stage with Revo or GIAC. take your savings and get a vag-com cable and start running logs.

i am working directly with the engineers at APR to get to the bottom of my problems. i'm going to log some runs this weekend and hopefully they can troubleshoot it. if we can't get to the bottom of it quickly, i may bite the bullet & switch to Revo. i'll give APR the opportunity to work with me though. they have been very receptive to my issues & input so far.

[dextrek]

i am working directly with the engineers at APR to get to the bottom of my problems. i'm going to log some runs this weekend and hopefully they can troubleshoot it. if we can't get to the bottom of it quickly, i may bite the bullet & switch to Revo. i'll give APR the opportunity to work with me though. they have been very receptive to my issues & input so far.

I just got mine chipped to 1+ and asked about common problems with it. And the dealer guy said it had some problems with v2.0 but the 2.1 should be fine. When I researched about APR running lean with 1+, it's more common with 02 and 03 year models. As for the other brands like REVO and GIAC, I believe they have issues in different department as well.

[mrpeterparker]

k04=waste of money IMO

hahaha... not for me.. hopefully putting two of them in my car =P

hi btw

[Maverick]

TIP is a not a good tranny at all once you leave the stock form. I experience boost lag(i call it) and somewhat slow on shifting althought I did TC and VB upgrade.

maybe I will upgrade to a 6speed, haha

[A4SoftWalker]

the big injector file is APR stage 1+, GIAC FX or Revo Stage 2 (i think that is all correct nomenclature). it is the bigger injectors without the upgraded turbo - you keep the k03. it will cost you $200 to upgrade the software from stage 1 to 1+ from APR plus the cost of bigger injectors.

the alternative is to switch programming to GIAC or Revo, but then you are back to square one - you have to pony up $500 for the stage 1 programming and another $200 for their respective big injector programs. so, in all you're looking at another $700 plus the cost of injectors.

to any of the above scenarios you can add a k04 turbo to your existing bigger injectors and get the k04 programming from whichever tuner for another $200 plus the cost of the turbo and install.

Funny... my APR 1 to 1+ upgrade was FREE!!!
I'm noticing a lot of people are getting charged labor and/or $200 for the big FI program... its a big difference from April 2008 when I got flashed... I'm glad I got it when I did then.

The APR K04 upgrade is $200.

I also had the "lean" error code 01710 or whatever but it went away when I did my MAF swap TIP upgrade... also there is a black valve (pressure regulator valve) that sits on the TIP in the early model B6 and closer to the windscreen on the newer B6s. It looks like a DV but does not have a vacuum connection::: I swapped that out too. Not sure if that had anything to do with the error code going away or not.

Click below and scroll to the bottom of the page to see what I'm talking about.

http://www.ecstuning.com/stage/edpd/...ategory=Intake